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  1. #41
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Does your ammo account for misses? How high? What type of environment? How are you going to obtain and transport over 100k rounds of ammunition? What happens if the gun malfunctions? Could you handle the psychological impact of constant seige of zombie warfare?(I suggest reading either World War Z or the Zombie Survival Guide before answering that one.). How large is your safe zone? What happens in case of severe weather and winter months?(Assuming you live in an area were that would be an issue).

    Now for the big one.......

    What happens when you complete your goal, but find the rest of the world in an extreme infection so that not even 1 billion people are alive?

    Now for some smaller ones again...

    What would you do in a case of armed thugs? what happens to the non-infected seeking your help in the area? What if you get sick? What are you taking shelter in? What if zombies got through your defenses? Do you have an escape plan? Were would you go? What would you do?

    As you can see I have alot of questions.
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  2. #42
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix View Post
    Talthas and I will just have to have this discuss all by ourselves.
    Oh, OK... since you asked so nicely, I'll post my plan:

    My family owns about 400 acres of farmland with which I am intimately familiar. On all sides, we are surrounded by families with whom our family has had friendly relationships for at least 50 years. My plan would be to retreat there as soon as the first stirrings of trouble hit, along with my wife and any survivors who seemed trustworthy and capable of pulling their own weight. Bug-out-bags are prepared for this contingency, and with the exception of the next 4 months, I don't plan on living anywhere outside a 3-day walking travel radius of my retreat. I am fully capable of surviving comfortably in the woods of North America for an indefinite amount of time and am skilled at evasion and stealth from long practice with my siblings and friends. So is the rest of my family.

    Once at the family retreat, we'd have to get down to the business of securing the grounds and setting up a perimeter. There's already heavy earth moving equipment on a back lot of the farm from an engineering project that's going on, and there are at least two people in our group that have experience with such machinery. It would be a relatively simple matter to - with appropriate guard escort - erect a 100-yard earthworks barrier around the house in places where there isn't already a relatively decent fence. A quick scrub of the nearby woods for likely trees would produce an accompanying palisade. In the event that we were worried about too much noise or conserving gasoline, our immediate neighbors have several horses that could be used to haul loads or provide transport for patrols.

    At the farm, we have more guns and ammo - including small and high-power rifles, shotguns, and handguns - than any 10 people need for personal defense, and we have reloading equipment and the expertise to use it. I clearly remember sitting up nights reloading shotgun shells with my brothers when we used to shoot skeet more regularly. Between two of us, we can probably turn out at least 200 rounds with a couple hours' work. Of course, each person arriving at the retreat would have also been knocking off as many places as possible for supplies not contained either at the retreat, in the BOB, or in the car (assuming we were able to reach ours and use it on roads all the way to the farm). This includes as much ammo for the guns we have as can be found and- the supplies to reload it. This is what most people will overlook (and therefore leave for us) because they lack either the expertise or the equipment to use the reloading equipment. Thus, we will be well-armed for taking out packs of zombies.

    We have two wells on-property with old fashioned hand-pumps, a wood-burning stove, oil-lamps, and a propane tank that has enough gas in it to last several months with conservative use. Virtually every important room has a fireplace or a room with one adjacent to it. We also have a diesel generator and the expertise and equipment to make fuel for it from plant-based oils if needed. Livestock, chickens, and a large garden are also present on property and could easily be included in the defensive perimeter or moved within its confines. I am a doctor, my wife's a vet, and there is a wide array of other skilled technical personnel in my family. All of us are capable of hitting a head-sized target at 100 yards with a rifle, with most having significantly better skill with all sizes and types of firearms.

    Anyone in the survivors' party would be bound by the following rules, family/friends or not:

    1) Pull your weight. If you are capable of heavy labor, it will be expected of you often. Be prepared to do long hours of guard duty or patrols, operate heavy machinery, or pull logs and use a shovel until the perimeter is at least somewhat secure. You will be called upon to use your unique expertise - should you have any such skills - whenever needed.

    2) You steal, you die. No exceptions. If you steal rations or ammunition, you are endangering the welfare of the entire survivors' group. This includes things like fudging patrol routes, sleeping on guard duty, or other derelictions of duty, as this constitutes a form of stealing in the form of manpower theft. For minor infractions, you might get a single warning, but that's pushing it. These behaviors demonstrate your clear unwillingness to be part of the solution. As such, you are part of the problem. I'd normally say that thieves would be expelled with great prejudice, but someone that's expelled could be a liability if they get vengeful. And if they get bitten and come back as a zombie, it might cause unnecessary emotional trauma to members of the group (as we're all fairly close) to have to ace them. So... the expedient way to deal with this is a simple, clear-cut rule: you do something that would ordinarily get you expelled from the group, you instead must die. It keeps things easy to manage.

    3) Nobody goes alone. Anywhere. Ever.This is for several reasons. First, if you're alone, nobody can watch your back.. from Zack attacks or from survivors. Second, if you're never alone, it means you have to have a co-conspirator in order to do something stupid or undermining to the group's safety. Third, if you're bitten, it's a lot harder to hide it from the group if someone watched it happen. And on that note:

    4) Everyone gets inspected after every patrol. We're talking totally naked strip-search inspection by a person that wasn't on the patrol. Bites or scratches immediately warrant quarantine for no less than 3 days if you insist that it wasn't a zombie-inflicted wound. First sign of zombie infection, you get one chance to go out on a kamikaze zombie patrol and take out as many of the bastards as you can before you run out of ammo (except the last bullet, which you would presumably use to cap yourself). You refuse to go out with dignity, we cap you right there.

    5) Nobody goes out after 1 hour before sunset. Simple enough. You can't see well enough to do anything except get killed after sunset, and the zombies will descend upon your flashlight like moths to a candle. On that note, nobody goes into buildings without a significant contingent of people to watch your back. Same principle - they can see you, and you can't see them. That's a problem we want to avoid whenever possible.

    6) Strict light, water, energy, food, and ammunition discipline. If you don't need to use it, don't. Food and water, while not precisely scarce, will not be in plentiful supply. Neither will ammunition. Light is considered both a use of energy and a potential compromise of the security of our base. Waste will be punished by you making up the difference of what you wasted in short rations. All external windows that don't already have shutters will be fitted with blackout curtains to be drawn down at curfew. Violating light discipline will be dealt with harshly, as all it takes is one glimmer to draw a pack of zombies to our position. Then we have a night-fight on our hands with a z-pack of unknown size and attack vector that we can't spot until they're virtually on top of us. The best way to avoid that is to make sure that our settlement is as inconspicuous as possible, so that our only zombie encounters are either by random chance or by planned design on killing raids during broad daylight.

    7) Only one entrance/exit from the house/compound will be used. All others will be sealed off in a permanent fashion. Any person-shaped thing coming through any entrance besides the established ones and failing to give the immediate countersigns upon challenge will be shot on sight as a suspected zombie.

    8) There should never be a time when you're not doing something to help the group's survival. This does include sleeping or recovering from illness, if it's your appropriate time to sleep or you're legitimately sick. This also includes child care, as there are two small children in my brothers' parties. However, even people engaged in child care can reload ammunition while talking and watching kids. It can be the post-apocalyptic version of a knitting circle or a quilting bee. Look at it as social time. It's most likely the closest thing to free time anyone's going to have until things calm down from the initial chaos.

    9)One leader will be chosen from the core family group by vote. For ordinary daily affairs, that person's word is absolute law. Insubordination would be treated as mutiny. The zombie apocalypse isn't the time for saving egos. Without clear leadership and cohesion, there is no chance that we'll survive. If you can't handle that, you're a liability. For important decisions like long-term planning, major projects, or policy decisions, a group vote will be held among core people. If you're not one of the core group - specifically, me, my brothers, and maybe a couple of our oldest friends - you don't get a say at all. If you have a problem with this, you're free to make your own way in the world, if you can... but only after having been escorted off-premises by armed people. You get no supplies from us on the way out, either.

    10) Unfamiliar survivors never go without loyal core-group escort. Ever. In the aftermath of a zombie apocalypse, we can't afford to just leave survivors to their own devices in case we're all that's left of humanity, but that doesn't mean we have to trust you. If you were picked up as a straggler, you will never have access to supplies, ammo, or people without at least one person capable of killing you present with you at all times... if it's an away patrol or sensitive area, at least two people will be present. Anybody with you will be noted, with delays or absences of your escort closely monitored and aggressively questioned. You will never go on patrol alone with other non-core survivors, and you will never be left in a position where your treachery could create the possibility of destabilizing the compound or the group's security. Furtive or evasive behavior will be interrogated thoroughly and ruthlessly, with the penalty for theft of any sort already well-established in an earlier rule.

    That should cover it for now. In short, I think we'd be just fine, and anyone with us would probably make it into the ranks of Zombie Apocalypse survivor, as long as they could obey the rules.

    ---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix View Post
    Because there are many necessary components to the human diet that fish simply won't provide. You're going to have to trust me here. I'm sure Talthas can provide a lot more on human nutrition than I can, seeing as how I'm sure this is something he studied in school.
    Scurvy will be a huge problem, just like it was for maritime people before the discovery that vitamin C deficiency causes serious illness. Nothing in fish provides it, and most ready sources of vitamin C are plant-based, which requires agriculture. Within a month or two, your hair and teeth would be falling out, gums bleeding, and you'd be in serious trouble. There are other nutritional deficits that would eventually become a problem, but not before scurvy killed you.

    To address the point that this quote answered: You wouldn't have the infrastructure to do much the way of serious agriculture on an oil platform, even if you brought out some top-soil. Bringing enough fertilizer and soil and seeds to make the effort worthwhile would basically preclude you from bringing much else without significant difficulty... which would probably result in your death by zombie long before you could carry your plan to its completion.
    Last edited by Talthas; January 24th, 2011 at 04:34 AM.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Have you read my current plan? Not the oil one. I fail to see how my plan is unrealistic. My house is a very good vantage point, there is an abundance of supplies readily available in the immediate area around my house, I own 11 different guns(each with ammo, and there are gun stores close enough for a supply run). In the winter is the easiest time to run for supplies, as the zombies will be sparse and mostly frozen. This allows for safer travel, and if I wanted to, the killing of frozen zombies. The population of a 50 mile radius of my house is below 45,000 people. In a 20 mile radius, there are less than 15,000 people. If I go for supplies in the winter and hold out in the summer, I should be able to survive.
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  4. #44
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Talthas plan FTW..
    Dud, I'm coming to your house .. I may be a zombie by the time I get there, but it is on my to do list once the zombie war starts.

    As long as I'm always free to leave with whatever I brought with me.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  5. #45
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Talthas plan FTW..
    Dud, I'm coming to your house .. I may be a zombie by the time I get there, but it is on my to do list once the zombie war starts.
    Heh... I get that sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028
    As long as I'm always free to leave with whatever I brought with me.
    As long as you partake in none of the supplies, energy sources, ammo, or space, and you kept all of your things separated from the communal property pool (which would be highly unlikely, given the probable standard policy of communal life and the other policy of strict obedience to the leader) you may take everything you brought with you. The part about leaving.. I'm not sure yet. I think it would depend on the circumstances under which you decided to leave. If you did something to get yourself expelled, that would most likely be a killing thing. Anything else... probably a matter best decided on a case-by-case basis.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by TALTHAS
    The part about leaving.. I'm not sure yet. I think it would depend on the circumstances under which you decided to leave. If you did something to get yourself expelled, that would most likely be a killing thing. Anything else... probably a matter best decided on a case-by-case basis.
    See, now that is why I bring it up.
    I'm not joining a prison, but I don't expect to walk out with more than I bring in..
    meaning, I know I will contribute, and pull my own weight. But it is those little scenes in the movies where they are like.
    "yea, you can go. but you are leaving your gun(among other things) with us.. because... we need it."

    So having an established policy as to what becomes communal property (once agreed) and what is always individual.. is important.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  7. #47
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    You might have to look at who needs it more. If someone brought their own gun and now they want to leave, should you keep it and leave him virtually weaponless against a horde of zombies, or should you let him keep it and just work off of the many guns that you already have?
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  8. #48
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    See, now that is why I bring it up.
    I'm not joining a prison, but I don't expect to walk out with more than I bring in..
    meaning, I know I will contribute, and pull my own weight. But it is those little scenes in the movies where they are like.
    "yea, you can go. but you are leaving your gun(among other things) with us.. because... we need it."

    So having an established policy as to what becomes communal property (once agreed) and what is always individual.. is important.
    I tend to agree that certain consumables (medicine, food, etc) should be shared with the community, as a trade for being allowed to join the group in the first place. I also think that if you don't know/trust someone, their weapons should be put in lock-up while they remain the status of "not known/trusted." I don't think, however, that weapons/clothing/etc. that a person brings in should necessarily be forefit, forever, simply because they came to the group... But, I could not object to such an arrangement if it was all laid out up front, especially if there was a signed document.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  9. #49
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Regardless of what the rules are, if you join a group you MUST follow the rules, especially in a setting like this. If the rules say whats yours is ours, then thats just how its going to be. The exception to this would be if you joined the group not knowing, and then when you learn the rules and do not agree with them, you should be allowed to leave with what you came with. Nothing more and nothing less(Unless you decided to give something or leave it behind)
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  10. #50
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix View Post
    I tend to agree that certain consumables (medicine, food, etc) should be shared with the community, as a trade for being allowed to join the group in the first place. I also think that if you don't know/trust someone, their weapons should be put in lock-up while they remain the status of "not known/trusted."
    This is the basic standpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix
    I don't think, however, that weapons/clothing/etc. that a person brings in should necessarily be forefit, forever, simply because they came to the group...
    We're not unreasonable. If a person wanted to leave, we wouldn't keep their clothing, and we have enough weapons. There's a difference between having honest motives for wanting to leave (i.e. "My sister's out there somewhere! I have to go find her!", or "I can't just sit here and do nothing...") even if they might be silly motives... and getting ejected (i.e. killed) because you did something to threaten the safety of the compound.

    If we had it to spare, we might provide them with a couple days' worth of light rations and a clip's worth of whatever ammo they had, to tide them over until such time as they found an ammo store to knock off. It might not be exactly what they came in with... but consider the consumables as "room and board" fees.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix
    But, I could not object to such an arrangement if it was all laid out up front, especially if there was a signed document.
    I don't know that it would be in writing - we don't operate quite like that - but we would certainly lay it all out on the table before he was allowed into the compound. Nobody can be expected to make a decision to submit to someone else's authority without being given all the information necessary to make that decision with open eyes.
    Last edited by Talthas; January 25th, 2011 at 10:14 AM.
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  11. #51
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    I think the only thing that you have to promise me is that we can have citrus trees and english walnuts (meaning they grow down there), and you got yourself a deal.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  12. #52
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix View Post
    I think the only thing that you have to promise me is that we can have citrus trees and english walnuts (meaning they grow down there), and you got yourself a deal.
    Come on down. I don't know about the walnuts, but there's a pecan grove nearby and a small peach orchard about a half-mile up the road.
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  13. #53
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by TALTHAS
    I don't know that it would be in writing - we don't operate quite like that - but we would certainly lay it all out on the table before he was allowed into the compound. Nobody can be expected to make a decision to submit to someone else's authority without being given all the information necessary to make that decision with open eyes.
    I'm sure we can negotiate and chit chat at the gate before I come in, the zombies will understand I'm sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by LP
    I also think that if you don't know/trust someone, their weapons should be put in lock-up while they remain the status of "not known/trusted."
    Good point...

    Talthas... would I fall in to the "I trust you" or the "not known" category?
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  14. #54
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I'm sure we can negotiate and chit chat at the gate before I come in, the zombies will understand I'm sure.
    Circumstances always dictate the precise way a particular interaction goes down. If there were zombies hot on your tail, of course we would help you. What happened after the immediate threat passed, though... that depends on you and what you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028
    Talthas... would I fall in to the "I trust you" or the "not known" category?
    With no offense intended, I have never even spoken with you in person and do not know your name. The fact that I *like* you has absolutely nothing to do with whether I would trust you with my life in a world where I have little choice but to act on the assumption that I now comprise a significant proportion of the world's remaining population. Trust comes with time and association, not affection.

    Nobody that hasn't been a part of my life for many years would be a part of the "I trust you" category at first. The post-apocalyptic world is not a place to preserve feelings or inflate egos, and it's not a place to bandy words and trade false pretenses. I would be warm, cordial, kind, and friendly to you as long as I had no reason to be otherwise. So would everyone else in the facility... but you would certainly never be left alone in that facility until you had put some time in the trenches with us and earned our trust.
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  15. #55
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by TALTHAS
    What happened after the immediate threat passed, though... that depends on you and what you say.
    Wow, why waist such a leveraged bargaining position? Hopefully I will arrive before LP, as she is sure to remedy that


    Quote Originally Posted by TALTHAS
    With no offense intended, I have never even spoken with you in person and do not know your name. The fact that I *like* you has absolutely nothing to do with whether I would trust you with my life in a world where I have little choice but to act on the assumption that I now comprise a significant proportion of the world's remaining population. Trust comes with time and association, not affection.
    No offense could be taken. .. It's nice to be liked though
    Of course your truthful answer gives me information to work on. I mean, were I part of another group that I had to "earn" my trust and position, and I had the option of moving to your group where I was already trusted... It would make more sense to me to seriously consider switching.

    However, trading one group for another isn't really appealing. (all things being equal).

    Quote Originally Posted by TALTHAS
    The post-apocalyptic world is not a place to preserve feelings or inflate egos, and it's not a place to bandy words and trade false pretenses.
    Darn, I was really hoping to dress like a cowboy, and call myself John Wayne.

    Quote Originally Posted by TALTHAS
    So would everyone else in the facility... but you would certainly never be left alone in that facility until you had put some time in the trenches with us and earned our trust.
    Well, as long as we both know there are trust issue

    I'm sure you can understand the importance of the question to begin with. Though I doubt many people will be knocking on your door screaming..
    "Mind Trap here! Talthas said I could come by".

    Of course, I'm not all that far from you. Houma is a short drive... or .. a long walk, from you. If I drive I'll bring shrimp. If I walk... I'll be tired.
    Right now.. your place is plan B
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  16. #56
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Right now.. your place is plan B
    Plan A being you taking on 75,000+ zombies alone? If I were you I would stick with Plan B.
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  17. #57
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER
    Plan A being you taking on 75,000+ zombies alone? If I were you I would stick with Plan B.
    HAHA..
    It's dirty work, but someone has to do it. Those zombies aren't going to shoot themselves.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  18. #58
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Actually,(WWZ zombies) their brains will have decomposed in about 5-15 years. So having a stealthy position(With enough supplies) would allow you to survive until most zombies are gone. But I doubt that it would be that long, as the governments of Earth would probably take offensive before that. Even then, they are the ones doing the dirty work, your main goal should be to survive rather then take the fight to them(Not really taking it to them, more like a stronghold designed to eradicate zombies within a certain area, except manned by one person, which is almost equally as dangerous, as with 75k and up zombies in the area it would be very easy for you to be swarmed in a defensive position, while a person using stealth to take the offensive would probably only be swarmed by zombies within the immediate area(1 mile))
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  19. #59
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER
    Actually,(WWZ zombies) their brains will have decomposed in about 5-15 years. So having a stealthy position(With enough supplies) would allow you to survive until most zombies are gone. But I doubt that it would be that long, as the governments of Earth would probably take offensive before that. Even then, they are the ones doing the dirty work, your main goal should be to survive rather then take the fight to them(Not really taking it to them, more like a stronghold designed to eradicate zombies within a certain area, except manned by one person, which is almost equally as dangerous, as with 75k and up zombies in the area it would be very easy for you to be swarmed in a defensive position, while a person using stealth to take the offensive would probably only be swarmed by zombies within the immediate area(1 mile))
    Well, Dawn of the dead (the one with the mall?).. They had nearly all of that they needed to kill 75k zombies. A position that was impenetrable by the zombies. Food to last an extended period. The only thing they lacked was weapons to kill enough zombies... (I had plenty of ideas for some were I there).

    So, I would seek a similar situation.. only with better weapons. In all cases, my escape plan is a U.S. Bradly tank. .. I just have to get one
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  20. #60
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    Re: Zombie Apocolypse

    Except these zombies just sat there and never looked up. WWZ zombies will unrelentingly bash on the doors until they break. The glass will not stand up to more than three or four zombies at once. These zombies also lacked the ability to acknowledge gunshots. In the WWZ universe, a gunshot would have brought grabbed the attention of any wandering zombie within 1/2 mile. If a zombie even sees you it will not give up until it dies. Even severing the head and it will still try to bite you.

    ---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------

    A single tank is also barely usefull. A tank is very easy to get swarmed and if it runs out of fuel while there are too many zombies then you will have a very hard time getting out.
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

 

 
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