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  1. #101
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    That probably because you're Sigfried the cool dude.




    Hating is a big waste of time and a poor use of one's intellect and reasoning.
    No argument there.

  2. #102
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Isn't this a contradiction in terms? How can someone be afraid of something they don't believe exists!?

  3. #103
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I made no firm diagnosis, but specifically and repeatedly use the word "may".
    But the mere suggestion that something "may" be true in no way supports that it is true.


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    However, the fact that people may be afraid of something due to repressed memories of an incident has been documented in the field of psychotherapy.
    But I don't see how we get from there to a feasible explanation of a fear of something that they don't believe exists.

    Beliefs and memories have a lot of mixing and overlap, so the existence of repressed beliefs is a logical assumption. Consider the definition of a Freudian Slip:


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    And as cstamford has described, atheists have demonstrated a lot of hostility and hatred for God on ODN, which can logically be attributed to subconscious fear.
    Support or retract that ODN atheist have demonstrated a lot of hostility for God.

    I don't recall any ODN atheist saying anything in particular about God beyond that they don't think he exists.

  4. #104
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    1) that the universe is self-creating (which doesn't seem very logical)

    Why is that?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  5. #105
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Support or retract that ODN atheist have demonstrated a lot of hostility for God.
    It is my memory of posts I've read over the years. If you have a different impression, I'm okay with that.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  6. #106
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Isn't this a contradiction in terms? How can someone be afraid of something they don't believe exists!?
    I never believed in the existence of monsters yet I feared them when I was a child. Perhaps atheists never grow up
    abc

  7. #107
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    I never believed in the existence of monsters yet I feared them when I was a child.
    That's contradictory. The nonexistent is nothing. No one can have a fear about nothing. All fears are about something . . . even if you don't know what it is that you fear. Even if you fear the concept of nonexistence itself, you fear the concept of nonexistence but not monsters.

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  9. #108
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    I never believed in the existence of monsters yet I feared them when I was a child. Perhaps atheists never grow up
    I don't get that. When I was afraid of monsters, I did believe they existed in dark corners and scary rooms. When I realized they didn't really exist they turned into human psychos and murderers or poisonous insects.

  10. #109
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    It is my memory of posts I've read over the years. If you have a different impression, I'm okay with that.
    We can have whatever impressions we have.

    But if something is going to be forwarded as valid for debate purposes, it needs to be supported. So to be clear, it's not currently a "fact" that atheists are hostile towards God. And if you aren't seeking to claim that it's a fact that they are, then you have no burden to support that assertion.

  11. #110
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    It is my memory of posts I've read over the years. If you have a different impression, I'm okay with that.
    CHALLENGE: Please support that atheists are angry against something they do not believe exists. The entire premise makes absolutely no sense.

  12. #111
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    CHALLENGE: Please support that atheists are angry against something they do not believe exists. The entire premise makes absolutely no sense.
    I never made the claim, JJ. I said that posts by atheists "suggest" that they had an anger or hatred towards God, and that they "may" be repressing a belief in God.

    JJ, are you willing to answer the poll question referenced in the op? This thread is meant to elicit responses from atheists. Are you one? If so, where are you on Dawkin's scale?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  13. #112
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    Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I never made the claim, JJ. I said that posts by atheists "suggested" that they had an anger or hatred towards God, and that they "may" be repressing a belief in God.
    The same challenge applies - I am looking for something solid that an atheist would say that demonstrates hatred towards a being he doesn't believe exists. Do you have an example post or statement?

    I think if an atheist is repressing a belief they'd probably call themselves agnostics.

    JJ, are you willing to answer the poll question referenced in the op? This op is meant to elicit responses from atheists. Are you one? If so, where are you on Dawkin's scale?
    I am 7 minus (how much Christians believe other Gods exist). So just short of a certainty and to the same degree that Christians are also atheists with respect to other religions.

  14. #113
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    I am 7 minus (how much Christians believe other Gods exist). So just short of a certainty and to the same degree that Christians are also atheists with respect to other religions.
    Why did you not choose "50 percent" probability, or even the relatively moderate "Lower than 50 percent but not very low" position?

    ---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    I think if an atheist is repressing a belief they'd probably call themselves agnostics.
    That isn't how repression and denial are understood to work. Someone who subconsciously believes their parent molested them as a child, but is repressing that belief, will answer "No!" when asked if they were molested as a child. They don't say "maybe" or "I don't know".
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  15. #114
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Why did you not choose "50 percent" probability, or even the relatively moderate "Lower than 50 percent but not very low" position?
    So do you believe in Brahmin, the Hindu God, at such probability too?


    That isn't how repression and denial are understood to work. Someone who subconsciously believes their parent molested them as a child, but is repressing that belief, will answer "No!" when asked if they were molested as a child. They don't say "maybe" or "I don't know".
    Well, I give up - what statements have atheists made to make you believe that they have an anger towards something they don't believe. I think you're reading it wrong which is why I'm asking for examples.

  16. #115
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdougie View Post
    Yes it is not the accountability. If God holds me to an immoral standard than I won't love it.
    What's immoral about the standard?
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  17. #116
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Surveys find that many "atheists" pray to God in a crisis, suggesting that they inwardly believe in God while publicly denying that belief.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pray-says-poll

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-crisis.html
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  18. #117
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Surveys find that many "atheists" pray to God in a crisis, suggesting that they inwardly believe in God while publicly denying that belief.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pray-says-poll

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-crisis.html
    Not surprising, when faced with "crisis" people may try anything. Desperation is definitely a motivational force. After all, what have they got to lose...

  19. #118
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by belthazor
    Not surprising, when faced with "crisis" people may try anything. Desperation is definitely a motivational force. After all, what have they got to lose...
    But they won't try things they don't believe in to some level. They pray to God and not something else for a reason, and that reason is belief.
    So it stands as evidence that they deny a belief they hold in reality.
    To serve man.

  20. #119
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    But they won't try things they don't believe in to some level. They pray to God and not something else for a reason, and that reason is belief.
    So it stands as evidence that they deny a belief they hold in reality.
    More likely that they hope they are wrong and "someone" really is listening. Since so many people believe it to be so, who knows, why not try it in a moment of despair? Again, nothing to lose, maybe life to gain.....

    We didn't define the "crisis", but if we are talking about living or dying, a lot of people would be willing to try about anything to stay alive. Is this will to live surprising?

  21. #120
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    Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Surveys find that many "atheists" pray to God in a crisis, suggesting that they inwardly believe in God while publicly denying that belief.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pray-says-poll

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-crisis.html
    Gosh, I didn’t think this site was still around and I get an email out of nowhere on a really old thread.

    Looking at the actual poll results (http://www.comresglobal.com/polls/te...prayer-survey/), I see no mention of “atheists” at all - only “non religious” people are mentioned. This could include:

    - agnostics of all stripes
    - people who claim no specific religion but are otherwise “spiritual”, whatever that really means.
    - actual declared atheists, without having to put quote marks around the term

    So I think it’s a bit of a stretch to claim that there are “many” atheists. Among those atheists too, could be former theists, which might also explain their behavior (which one person even claimed to be hypocritical).

    I also wonder why you also put the word atheists in quotation marks. Do you also recognize this discrepancy? In the world of “Fake News” that we live in now, these kinds of articles don’t help and neither is it useful to promote easily debunked claims.

    That said, there’s nothing weird about an atheist praying: theists go through crises of belief and switch religions for all sorts of reasons. A system of thought, largely based on personal belief, can’t be expected to be rigorously held to or associated with on occasion.

 

 
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