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  1. #21
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
    I will issue the Challenge to support a claim. again: What, specifically, did Obama do differently than Bush concerning bin Laden?
    It would seem the difference is that President Bush decided that Osama Bin Laden had been marginalized:

    Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of --

    THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

    Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

    So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

    And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.

    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...0020313-8.html
    Make of it what you will, but his response seems rather disenfranchised with regard to the effort of finding Osama Bin Laden. The question in my mind: was OBL a priority target for the Bush Administration and they were actively engaged in the pursuit of OBL, i.e. made that a priority for the CIA; or did they prioritize other concerns feeling that OBL was marginalized?
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  2. #22
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
    I Challenge to support a claim. anyone to list anything President Obama did differently than President Bush in relation to Osama Bin Laden, other than have the chance to give the "go" order.
    Details are still sketchy, but it seems to me that the evolving relationship and collaboration between Pakistan and the U.S. Intelligence played an important role. Your challenge is probably premature.

    I would not rule out that some members of the Pakistan Intel was aware of his location during the Bush years. We'll likely never know for sure.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    A fair point and question.

    The article regarding Bin Laden's death makes a good point: there are other more powerful organizations out there who we also need to focus on. He is one man, most likely very disconnected from the organization he started.

    The article makes mention that there was no phone line or internet line running to the house. His communication would have been very limited.

    The problem with people like Bin Laden is that there is also another to step up and take his place.

    He has no ties to a country, so taking away his country won't do any good. No formal military. Yes you can track him down and kill him, but so what? The ideas have spread to others.

    His strength was always in his followers, his "people".

    Yes, its a great victory for America, but it's not the end at all.

    The ideas live on in others, that is the greatest strength of people like this. You can kill the "leader" but the leader is not really the leader. The ideas are more important than the man.

  4. #24
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Just so it is noted...
    Good job Obama.. Yay U.S.A.

    Obama Gave the order at the right time, where as the past 2 presidents missed chances.

    Good for him, and the U.S.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    The fact is that neither Bush nor Obama gets full credit for this victory. They both had a hand in it but ultimately, like anything that is successful, it is the boots on the ground that did the job. That Obama made it a priority from the beginning of his presidency is worthy of credit and he deserves it for making it a priority. Credit where credit is due.

    Quote Originally Posted by Booger View Post
    When Bush had his chance in Tora Bora, he flubbed. When Obama had his chance, he delivered.

    I must just kill conversatives like you that a black, foreign born marxist muslim extremist acting illegitimately as POTUS actually did the job! Meanwhile, the rest of us (including level-headed conversatives like Apok) celebrate a major milestone and huge victory for the red, white and blue.
    Oooh, the race card! How wonderfully original.

  6. #26
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Details are still sketchy, but it seems to me that the evolving relationship and collaboration between Pakistan and the U.S. Intelligence played an important role. Your challenge is probably premature.

    I would not rule out that some members of the Pakistan Intel was aware of his location during the Bush years. We'll likely never know for sure.
    Scratch this... it seems that Pakistan Intel was not involved after all.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Scratch this... it seems that Pakistan Intel was not involved after all.
    And doesn't that raise questions? Considering the compound he was "hiding" in was less than a kilometre from a main military base (according to BBC). He was in a house 8 times bigger than any surrounding house... This house was built FIVE years ago... Huge walls and I'm guessing security also. How can that go unnoticed?

    On a side note... Why is there no pictures? Or videos? I have seen pictures of dead terrorists who were high up on the wanted list and their death/capture had been celebrated. This was the MAIN terrorist USA wanted, he had been wanted for TEN years - yet he's caught, shot and buried quickly at sea? No pictures to dispel conspiracy theorists. No video to show the world, yes this is him... Yes he is dead.

    I'm not denying his death here... Just a few things I'm not understanding in regards to the consistency of behaviour shown when terrorists are caught and killed.
    .::The Swindall::.

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  8. #28
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    On a side note... Why is there no pictures? Or videos?
    WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES CONTAINED IN THIS VIDEO.

    This link is not intended as an argument or a rebuttal. It is intended only to supply data in response to the request of the poster quoted here.

    The video contains what looks like a very dead, after being very killed, Osama Bin Laden.


  9. #29
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES CONTAINED IN THIS VIDEO.

    This link is not intended as an argument or a rebuttal. It is intended only to supply data in response to the request of the poster quoted here.

    The video contains what looks like a very dead, after being very killed, Osama Bin Laden.

    An image apparently showing a dead Osama bin Laden broadcast on Pakistani television and picked up by British newspaper websites is a fake.

    The bloodied image of a man with matted hair and a blank, half-opened eye has been circulating on the internet for the past two years. It was used on the front pages of the Mail, Times, Telegraph, Sun and Mirror websites, though swiftly removed after the fake was exposed on Twitter.

    It appears the fake picture was initially published by the Middle East online newspaper themedialine.org on 29 April 2009, with a warning from the editor that it was "unable to ascertain whether the photo is genuine or not".
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...den-photo-fake

    I'm still not convinced bro.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    .::The Swindall::.

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  10. #30
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    I'm still not convinced bro.
    Well, you'll note that I didn't say anything about it being genuine. Only that it looked that way. Good find though.

  11. #31
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Well, you'll note that I didn't say anything about it being genuine. Only that it looked that way. Good find though.
    I didn't mean to imply you were trying to convince me or portraying it as genuine, I was just stating that I still wasn't convinced D.
    .::The Swindall::.

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  12. #32
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    wait... Is the death being faked all together? Or are some people just faking stuff to get money based on an otherwise "real" event?
    To serve man.

  13. #33
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    wait... Is the death being faked all together? Or are some people just faking stuff to get money based on an otherwise "real" event?
    Unbelievably, there are already a bunch of conspiracy theories on this:

    1. That Osama has been dead for years, and this has been staged to provide cover for some other event.
    2. That Osama is not dead - hence the burial at sea.
    3. The whole thing is faked - hence, again, the burial at sea.

    The jokes about the Birthers & Donald Trump asking for the Death Certificate are hilarious.

    Those images below though, I'm pretty sure were shopped from a couple of years ago.

  14. #34
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Obama did not kill Osama. It was not Obama who flew into Pakistan in the dead of night. It was not Obama who stormed a compound. It was not Obama who faced flying bullets. And it was not Obama who put a bullet through the head of Osama.

    That was a team of Navy Seals.

    It was not Obama who has been tracking the trail of Osama for years. It has taken two years just to follow up on the trail of the courier that led to Osama. It was not Obama who did the hard intelligence work. It was not Obama who narrowed the trail down to that one courier and his brother.

    That was the CIA.

    None of this was the work of Obama, nor was it the work of Bush. It has been the hard work of a team of CIA and Special Forces operative who have been doing the same work under two different administrations.

    Lets give credit where credit is due. This is not Obama's kill, it is not his find, it is not his work. He was simply fortunate enough to be president at the conclusion of two decades of work (we have been tracking the bastard since Clinton).

    To give him credit is a disservice to the men who actually did the job.

  15. #35
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Who knows... all this conspiracy talk...

    I better get in my Dolorian and go back in time.

    Better bring my portal gun too. You never know when it'll come in handy.

    My brain hurts from all this real vs. fake. But, I will go with Huey Lewis and The News...

    Get me back in time...

  16. #36
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    To give him credit is a disservice to the men who actually did the job.
    He alone made the decision to kill another human being, rather than capture him, in a foreign state, which he had been working towards a better relationship, using information from an initiative that he alone promised in his campaign.

    Don't forget who the Commander in Chief is. I agree that there are thousands of people coordinated over many years to achieve this goal. But somebody had to start the initiative, keep it going and take the credit/blame. This is would be Obama.

    Note, that in 2006, Bush said that capturing Osama is not a priority; from the Weekly Standard article:

    "This thing about . . . let's put 100,000 of our special forces stomping through Pakistan in order to find bin Laden is just simply not the strategy that will work."

    It seems that the American people beg to differ.

  17. #37
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Obama gave an order, he didn't kill anyone.

    Unless you actually pull the tiger that takes a life you aren't the "only" person killing him.

    He alone did not make a decision.

    Your statements are so outlandishly biased it makes me hate anyone slightly left of the line.

    Plenty of people have made good positive statements about this. How America managed to do what seemed impossible.

    But instead of it being an American accomplishment its an "Obama" accomplishment.

  18. #38
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilPup John View Post
    Obama gave an order, he didn't kill anyone.

    Unless you actually pull the tiger that takes a life you aren't the "only" person killing him.

    He alone did not make a decision.

    Your statements are so outlandishly biased it makes me hate anyone slightly left of the line.
    1. Who are you speaking to? The quote function is your friend.

    2. Speaking of outlandish, where did anyone in this thread claim anything like your describing here?

  19. #39
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    He alone made the decision to kill another human being, rather than capture him, in a foreign state, which he had been working towards a better relationship, using information from an initiative that he alone promised in his campaign.

    Don't forget who the Commander in Chief is. I agree that there are thousands of people coordinated over many years to achieve this goal. But somebody had to start the initiative, keep it going and take the credit/blame. This is would be Obama.

    Note, that in 2006, Bush said that capturing Osama is not a priority; from the Weekly Standard article:

    "This thing about . . . let's put 100,000 of our special forces stomping through Pakistan in order to find bin Laden is just simply not the strategy that will work."

    It seems that the American people beg to differ.
    For you Dio:

    To answer question one. This guy.

    To answer question two:
    He alone made the decision to kill another human being

  20. #40
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    Re: Obama kills Osama - Does what Bush couldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilPup John View Post
    Obama gave an order, he didn't kill anyone.

    Unless you actually pull the tiger that takes a life you aren't the "only" person killing him.

    He alone did not make a decision.

    Your statements are so outlandishly biased it makes me hate anyone slightly left of the line.

    Plenty of people have made good positive statements about this. How America managed to do what seemed impossible.

    But instead of it being an American accomplishment its an "Obama" accomplishment.
    I never said it wasn't an American accomplishment.

    What I said was that people are not hunted and killed without authorization to do so.

    I also read that he watched the whole thing happen - it would have been his explicit decision to pull the trigger, not the man on the ground. I imagine they captured him alive so someone has to make the call to execute bin Laden. That is all I claimed - that Obama is directly responsible for this hunt and for this death.

    Praising a leader should not be taken as a bad thing. To this day, Presidents are known for the missions and accomplishments they promised and delivered on (Kennedy & the Moon landing, Reagan in taking down the USSR); this in no way detracts or removes the contribution of the guys on the ground that did the execution. Please do not read this as such.

 

 
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