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  1. #1
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    Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    We saw it in greece... people complained over the austerity measures their government was proposing... they were probably gonna cut spending on things like infrastructure so they could get their country out of economic crisis... how does everyone respond? By running around destroying that infrastructure! Did they have an alternative for what the government could do? No. They just wanted to go destroy everything as though they were fighting against some oppressive regime in the middle east.

    Now its happening in the uk. Kids are running around looting and rioting and lighting things on fire... to get back at the 'rich people' and the police and the government... really? Sounds just like an excuse to get free stuff to me.

    They've seen whats happening in Egypt and Lybia etc... countries where there were serious problems that needed changing... and they've just tried to copy it and join in with the fun. I reckon its offensive to those protests in the middle east... acting like people in those countries did over oppresive regimes... because of some spending cuts and some police officers doing their jobs.

    That's my belief... but does everyone think there even is a relationship between the middle east riots and those in Europe? Some sort of copy-cat mentality? And if so... is that offensive to the middle east riots?

    Do the rioters just need to get over themselves?

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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    I think they have the same mental capacity as soccer hooligans for doing what they do right now. What I am waiting to see though is whether they will actually shut down the BBM service. To me it seems that the Police is hiding behind technology to hide their own weaknesses. It is obvious they are not prepared for riots of that nature and BBM is now their scapegoat.

    I don't think they are copying any other country though. They are simply showing who they really are and what they are made of. It is a cultural thing to actually do something like that. I see it in many cultures where I come from as well. In my culture we are taught that behaviour like that is not acceptable, so we simply never do something like that. English (UK) people in general have a total different culture than any other nation in the world. They are reacting to disappointment and frustration in the same way as the soccer hooligans in the UK, so it really is not something new to that country IMHO.
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by mattbennett4 View Post
    Now its happening in the uk. Kids are running around looting and rioting and lighting things on fire... to get back at the 'rich people' and the police and the government... really? Sounds just like an excuse to get free stuff to me.
    This has nothing to do with getting back at the "rich people". It is in part a way of getting back at the Police and/or Government.

    The riots started in North London because a man (Mark Duggan) was shot and killed by the police. The original reports stated that there were 3 shots fired, one from Duggan and 2 from the police, which ultimately killed him. From my estimations, the report was not believed and this was mainly due to the relationship between the Police and the public (especially the U25's).

    Copy cat riots then proceeded to occur in South and East, and finally in West - Which were then copied in the Midlands and North England. A percentage of the "rioters" are doing it for a cause, some would say the right cause and a very justifiable one. But like most displays of protest, a percentage are doing it merely to cause trouble and get back at a leadership which they feel have abandoned them.



    The police complaints commission released a report of the shooting yesterday and it came to light that 2 shots were fired - both from police, none from Duggan. A bullet was found in one policeman's radio, which turned out to be from a police gun! Duggan had a replica pistol that had been converted into a actual bullet firing weapon in his possession at the time. He was shot in the chest and died immediately I believe.



    There are many reasons for the riots and demonstrations. A lot of the youth in England, London especially are just enraged and frustrated - This is a clear indication of that. An example for you...



    Quote Originally Posted by mattbennett4 View Post
    Do the rioters just need to get over themselves?
    No, I don't believe they need to get over themselves. They need to stop now, the damage has been done and the message has been sent.

    ---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    I think they have the same mental capacity as soccer hooligans for doing what they do right now. What I am waiting to see though is whether they will actually shut down the BBM service. To me it seems that the Police is hiding behind technology to hide their own weaknesses. It is obvious they are not prepared for riots of that nature and BBM is now their scapegoat.
    To be honest, I've seen a lot of reports and have watched a lot of news over the past 4 days (as you can imagine) and haven't seen much "scapegoating" by the police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    In my culture we are taught that behaviour like that is not acceptable, so we simply never do something like that. English (UK) people in general have a total different culture than any other nation in the world. They are reacting to disappointment and frustration in the same way as the soccer hooligans in the UK, so it really is not something new to that country IMHO.
    I think this is a gross over generalization Aspo. You can't use football hooligans to try and spin a negative on the culture in England. I'm sure there are many stupid people within your country, who take part in extremely foolish behaviour that would allow me to do the same thing, right? But I wouldn't... Because those people don't represent the majority. The rioters, don't represent the majority - It is NOT a cultural thing. It is reactionary to what happened in recent weeks, it has spread like wildfire for the reasons I stated in the post to Mattbennett4.
    Last edited by Swindall; August 10th, 2011 at 08:46 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    The riots have nothing to do with austerity or class warfare. A young black man was shot. His friends and family beleive that he unarmed when police shot and killed him. So they start to protest. Protests turn to riots when police try to suppress the demonstrations. And the riots turned to looting when others saw the opportunity to do so and get away with it. See the Rodney King incident for more.

    And, NO, the rioters should not get over themselves. The government should get over themselves and give in to the people, because after all it's WE THE PEOPLE, not WE THE GOVERNMENT.

  5. #5
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Feral humans preying on civilized people and businesses should be treated like feral dogs. Unfortunately, the Brits have had their guns taken away and can't protect themselves against the rampaging beasts who deserve to be put down.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Feral humans preying on civilized people and businesses should be treated like feral dogs. Unfortunately, the Brits have had their guns taken away and can't protect themselves against the rampaging beasts who deserve to be put down.
    Most businesses that were attacked were big brand name businesses. Most people that were attacked, were Police. You are talking about the minority of cases where small businesses got rioted and where innocent civilians were attacked.

    Unless what you are saying is, people should be allowed to go into the streets and shoot rioters freely on the basis that they need to be "put down"...

    If that's the case and it seems to be then: I'm very grateful my country isn't like parts of the USA and we don't have stupid people (like yourself) who are allowed to have guns.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    Most businesses that were attacked were big brand name businesses. Most people that were attacked, were Police.
    Are you defending their actions on that basis? Is it okay to loot major businesses that provide jobs to the public, goods and services for those who legally want to purchase them, and tax money to support the rabble who live off welfare? It's okay to attack police officers? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    You are talking about the minority of cases where small businesses got rioted and where innocent civilians were attacked.
    No, I'm talking about all of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    Unless what you are saying is, people should be allowed to go into the streets and shoot rioters freely on the basis that they need to be "put down"...
    I'm saying a person should be allowed to use lethal force to protect their person, family, and property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    If that's the case and it seems to be then: I'm very grateful my country isn't like parts of the USA and we don't have stupid people (like yourself) who are allowed to have guns.
    We stupid people are generally able to protect ourselves against amoral thugs. Your nation has disarmed its law-abiding citizens and its police to the point that it is unable to maintain order.
    Last edited by evensaul; August 10th, 2011 at 04:53 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Are you defending their actions on that basis? Is it okay to loot major businesses that provide jobs to the public, goods and services for those who legally want to purchase them, and tax money to support the rabble who live off welfare? It's okay to attack police officers? Really?
    No, I'm not defending anyone merely correcting you.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I'm saying a person should be allowed to use lethal force to protect their person, family, and property.
    So, what you're saying is if a 16 year old kid breaks a glass window, lethal force should be taken out on that CHILD. Or as you put it, he should be "put down" much like a feral dog?

    Yea... Because that would be the appropriate way to deal with that situation

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    We stupid people are generally able to protect ourselves against amoral thugs. Your nation has disarmed its law-abiding citizens and its police to the point that it is unable to maintain order.
    I know, right. It's not like there's any crime and gang wars in your country is it? LOL disarmed? Mate, I'm living right in the middle of it - Don't believe everything you hear or see on the news.

    A few shops and cars get set on fire and the whole country has been taken over by "amoral thugs". Ridiculous.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    No, I'm not defending anyone merely correcting you.
    You corrected nothing that I said, because I said nothing incorrect.

    It is pretty clear from your overall tone that you condone the actions of the rioters. Or would you like to prove me wrong and forcefully condemn their lawless actions?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    I like the apologists here. Hooray for the underdog, right? Big bad authority figures mistreating the lower classes by not pampering them. And what's the harm in a little violent protest where only a few innocent bystanders get killed and millions in property damage, right?

    If you think the violence is the result of a police incident, you have to dig deeper. If you think it's the result of strained relations with the police, you have to dig deeper. It's an entitlement mentality. It's a pent-up anger in an angry society, built on selfishness. This isn't like the revolts of old where the people were demanding their rights and freedoms. These are revolts of people jealous of others who have worked harder, feeling that it's a zero sum game. They feel like they have to take others down to raise themselves up.

    For those of you who salute these violent forms of protest which are putting innocent people at mortal risk, you're asking for a civilization that has no restraints, no order, no personal responsibility, no authority, no respect for property, and no respect for human life. You look at these looters as heroes, but really think about what they're doing. You're excusing them of multiple violent crimes because they're doing it for some supposed cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall
    So, what you're saying is if a 16 year old kid breaks a glass window, lethal force should be taken out on that CHILD.
    Swindall, let me ask you something fairly basic. What difference does it make whether it's a 16 year-old or a 26 year-old destroying property and putting people's lives in danger? If the 16 year-old is old enough to do the damage, they're also old enough to be held responsible for the damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams
    Protests turn to riots when police try to suppress the demonstrations.
    Typical abdication of responsibility. "We were just protesting nicely when the police had to come and spoil our party, so then we had no choice but to riot and break the law. It's the police's fault for getting us angry at them." That's totally illogical in terms of personal responsibility, JohnAdams. Have fun trying to defend that position. I'll have fun watching it too.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    [/COLOR] To be honest, I've seen a lot of reports and have watched a lot of news over the past 4 days (as you can imagine) and haven't seen much "scapegoating" by the police.
    Fair enough, if that is how you see it.

    I think this is a gross over generalization Aspo. You can't use football hooligans to try and spin a negative on the culture in England. I'm sure there are many stupid people within your country, who take part in extremely foolish behaviour that would allow me to do the same thing, right? But I wouldn't... Because those people don't represent the majority. The rioters, don't represent the majority - It is NOT a cultural thing. It is reactionary to what happened in recent weeks, it has spread like wildfire for the reasons I stated in the post to Mattbennett4.
    Of course there are MANY stupid people in my country too. Don't take what I said so personally. The point is, if people feel that they need to damage government property just to get back at the Police, then there is something serious wrong with the way they think IMHO. And I never said that ALL English people are making themselves guilty of such behaviour, but that it is definitely not strange to see them doing it since I saw some of them behave in a similar fashion before. And it is a cultural thing. I see many people belonging to a certain culture in my country who will also do EXACTLY what these people are doing now. Then I see other cultures who simply don't believe you need to commit crime and take part in violence to get your point across. Many manage to get their point across to the government with civilized behavior. NOTHING can excuse these people for what they are doing now because they are doing it the wrong way. What they do is simply not socially acceptable. If they had a problem with how the Police handled a certain matter, the right thing would have been to take legal action against the Police Officers who committed the offense/crime and not break/damage property of government which was paid by law abiding citizen's hard owned tax money.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    I say they need to get over themselves because theyre acting like they have this really oppressive, evil, totalitarian government.
    They need to understand that they live in a country where there is a right to assembly, protest and speech. They should be using those rights to get a message across. They should be speaking the language of the government - the people they want change from - instead of the language of angry, hormonal teenagers.
    They have every right to be protesting over what theyre protesting. Their government is upping the cashflow into some areas while it cuts spending on other areas that society sees as important.

    The riots have nothing to do with austerity or class warfare.
    When i talked about austerity i was talking about greece... where thats exactly what they were protesting about. In the uk the riots may have started because of the shooting of that boy... but it was really only a catalyst for people to start raising other issues.

    Recent riots in paris were started because a proposed raise to the retirement age of two years. Why are the people reacting in this way - what happened to good old peaceful protest?

    I don't think they are copying any other country though. They are simply showing who they really are and what they are made of.
    I think the recent riots in europe are absolutely related to whats happening in the middle east, as far as i can see it. Not necessarily the activism... just the method of protest. This is about more than just the uk, there have been protests in France, Germany, Greece, Turkey, Austria... some have become violent and turned to riots. I think people have seen whats happened in the middle east and decided that... 'thats what we do when we're angry at the government'.
    I understand that the european economy is messed up and the governments aren't necessarily making the right decisions.... all i'm arguing is that this widespread use of rioting and violence to get a message across is born from the middle east protests. But in the middle east... you could argue it was the only way to go.

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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by mattbennett4 View Post
    I think the recent riots in europe are absolutely related to whats happening in the middle east, as far as i can see it. Not necessarily the activism... just the method of protest. This is about more than just the uk, there have been protests in France, Germany, Greece, Turkey, Austria... some have become violent and turned to riots. I think people have seen whats happened in the middle east and decided that... 'thats what we do when we're angry at the government'.
    I understand that the european economy is messed up and the governments aren't necessarily making the right decisions.... all i'm arguing is that this widespread use of rioting and violence to get a message across is born from the middle east protests. But in the middle east... you could argue it was the only way to go.
    I still don't think so. It takes a certain type of person to do what these people are doing right now. To think they are influenced by another country is a bit far fetched and it is an attempt to put the blame on someone else. In this case, another country. These people could see what damage it caused to innocent people living in those countries. They could see that it is not a solution. This is purely a case of teenagers not respecting laws and obviously the decision between what is right and what is wrong was still their's to make. Like I said before, the method of protest is not new to the UK at all. You have many groups of people in the UK that make themselves guilty of such behavior, therefore I gave the example of soccer hooligans. Soccer hooligans do exactly the same thing. They damage property and kill each other if they can get the opportunity to do so. I am sorry, but I am not convinced that they somehow copied their methods from the middle east because they showed similar behavior in the past. You can prove me wrong if you wish with adequate support though.
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    To think they are influenced by another country is a bit far fetched and it is an attempt to put the blame on someone else. In this case, another country.
    I put all the blame on the european rioters... theyre the ones who think that how middle eastern rioters acted applies in europe - which it doesnt.
    Those in the uk may not directly be copying the protest methods of people in the middle east... but are copying rioters and protestors in other countries who have been influenced by the middle east. The most notable is Greece... they eventually thought violence was the way to get a message across... and i believe they resorted to that because they thought... this is how people protest in this day and age. Due to the action in the middle east. You can never be angry or frustrated at the government - only furious and hostile.
    Those in the uk have seen how citizens react to the government in other european countries... and decide to react the same way to the point where they don't even know what theyre so angry about.

    ---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

    I do also believe their culture is to do with it as well... Europeans seem to get very aggrivated to the point of angry, violent protest over everything. Particularly in France... they protest over everything. But there has been a huge spike in the amount and violence of the protests since those in the middle east started.

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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You corrected nothing that I said, because I said nothing incorrect.

    It is pretty clear from your overall tone that you condone the actions of the rioters. Or would you like to prove me wrong and forcefully condemn their lawless actions?
    I was adding context to your post, context that was needed. Otherwise one would read your post and assume the only shops were attacked were small time businesses, and the only people that were attacked were civilians who had nothing to do with the riots.

    ---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanadu Moo View Post
    I like the apologists here. Hooray for the underdog, right? Big bad authority figures mistreating the lower classes by not pampering them. And what's the harm in a little violent protest where only a few innocent bystanders get killed and millions in property damage, right?

    If you think the violence is the result of a police incident, you have to dig deeper. If you think it's the result of strained relations with the police, you have to dig deeper. It's an entitlement mentality. It's a pent-up anger in an angry society, built on selfishness. This isn't like the revolts of old where the people were demanding their rights and freedoms. These are revolts of people jealous of others who have worked harder, feeling that it's a zero sum game. They feel like they have to take others down to raise themselves up.

    For those of you who salute these violent forms of protest which are putting innocent people at mortal risk, you're asking for a civilization that has no restraints, no order, no personal responsibility, no authority, no respect for property, and no respect for human life. You look at these looters as heroes, but really think about what they're doing. You're excusing them of multiple violent crimes because they're doing it for some supposed cause.
    Some interesting points raised. If you think the Police had nothing to do with this, that they acted appropriately and continue to act appropriately in any and all occasions. You are out of touch with what happens in London if you're a certain age and colour (in certain circumstances).

    This man sums it up VERY WELL. Try and give it an ACTUAL listen instead of just forwarding through it.





    Quote Originally Posted by Xanadu Moo View Post
    Swindall, let me ask you something fairly basic. What difference does it make whether it's a 16 year-old or a 26 year-old destroying property and putting people's lives in danger? If the 16 year-old is old enough to do the damage, they're also old enough to be held responsible for the damage.
    Yes, a child can be held responsible for the damage he/her has caused. However, my response was in reply to a call for "lethal" action against any and all rioters. Do you believe "lethal" action should be taken against a child? Or a child should be put down like a "feral dog"?

    I should hope not. There are better ways of dealing with the situation than what has been proposed in this thread.

    ---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    Of course there are MANY stupid people in my country too. Don't take what I said so personally.
    How can I not take what you said personally? I have been born and raised in London, I've been here for 21 years. The culture I was raised in, was not a football hooligan culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    The point is, if people feel that they need to damage government property just to get back at the Police, then there is something serious wrong with the way they think IMHO.
    That is true, but that wasn't the point you were making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    And I never said that ALL English people are making themselves guilty of such behaviour, but that it is definitely not strange to see them doing it since I saw some of them behave in a similar fashion before.
    No Aspo, you did try and group together English people as a whole via culture using football hooligans as the defining behaviour of said culture. As you can see below...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    English (UK) people in general have a total different culture than any other nation in the world. They are reacting to disappointment and frustration in the same way as the soccer hooligans in the UK, so it really is not something new to that country IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    And it is a cultural thing. I see many people belonging to a certain culture in my country who will also do EXACTLY what these people are doing now. Then I see other cultures who simply don't believe you need to commit crime and take part in violence to get your point across. Many manage to get their point across to the government with civilized behavior. NOTHING can excuse these people for what they are doing now because they are doing it the wrong way. What they do is simply not socially acceptable. If they had a problem with how the Police handled a certain matter, the right thing would have been to take legal action against the Police Officers who committed the offense/crime and not break/damage property of government which was paid by law abiding citizen's hard owned tax money.
    This is a confused piece of writing Aspo. Are you saying there are many different cultures in England? Because in your previous post you grouped England together with ONE culture.
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    So, what you're saying is if a 16 year old kid breaks a glass window, lethal force should be taken out on that CHILD. Or as you put it, he should be "put down" much like a feral dog?
    If it's my window, and he thinks he's gonna be looting or ransacking my house, then I'd feel perfectly justified using a firearm to resist his home invasion. If all he does is throw a rock through the window and run away, of course I'm not going to kill him.

    ---------- Post added at 08:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 AM ----------

    How can I not take what you said personally? I have been born and raised in London, I've been here for 21 years. The culture I was raised in, was not a football hooligan culture.
    Well, apparently the British culture has a lot to learn about how to bring up their kids so they won't riot, burn, steal, and kill.

    And as a special favor, maybe you could get British commentators to stop tut-tutting about our culture of violence? At least until their own house is in order.

    ---------- Post added at 08:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 AM ----------

    Copy cat riots then proceeded to occur in South and East, and finally in West - Which were then copied in the Midlands and North England. A percentage of the "rioters" are doing it for a cause, some would say the right cause and a very justifiable one. But like most displays of protest, a percentage are doing it merely to cause trouble and get back at a leadership which they feel have abandoned them.
    Cut the sh*t, mate. "Getting back at a leadership" by burning down flats? By stealing from shops? That's like "getting back" at your abusive father by shooting a homeless person--then having people call you Robin Hood and applaud you.

    Rioting, stealing, arson, and killing are not the response of a civilized people.
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    If it's my window, and he thinks he's gonna be looting or ransacking my house, then I'd feel perfectly justified using a firearm to resist his home invasion. If all he does is throw a rock through the window and run away, of course I'm not going to kill him.
    Expand on resist. Would you fire it? Would you kill said child?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    Well, apparently the British culture has a lot to learn about how to bring up their kids so they won't riot, burn, steal, and kill.
    gen·er·al·i·za·tion (jnr--l-zshn)
    n.
    - The act or an instance of generalizing.
    - Any statement ascribing a property to every member of a class (universal generalization) or to one or more members (existential generalization)
    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    Cut the sh*t, mate. "Getting back at a leadership" by burning down flats? By stealing from shops? That's like "getting back" at your abusive father by shooting a homeless person--then having people call you Robin Hood and applaud you.

    Rioting, stealing, arson, and killing are not the response of a civilized people.
    Cut the **** I fail to see what "****" I need to "cut". My comments are merely a guess of the mentality of these youths. I'm not apart of them nor am I their leader. If you watch the video I posted of the younger guy asking Boris Johnson the Mayor of London specific questions, you can see where anger stems from within this country. So, go back and have a look - It's a great example.
    .::The Swindall::.

    "...In the beginning, man created god"

  18. #18
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    Expand on resist. Would you fire it? Would you kill said child?
    If he entered my house after breaking a window, I would be absolutely willing to fire the gun and kill him. 16 year olds can carry knives and guns just like any full grown man, and might even be able to overpower me or react faster than me. If he doesn't want to risk his life, he shouldn't be breaking into peoples' homes.

    Cut the **** I fail to see what "****" I need to "cut". My comments are merely a guess of the mentality of these youths. I'm not apart of them nor am I their leader. If you watch the video I posted of the younger guy asking Boris Johnson the Mayor of London specific questions, you can see where anger stems from within this country. So, go back and have a look - It's a great example.
    It's just an excuse. Again, this is like saying, "I'm going to rebel against my abusive father...by murdering this homeless person!" And then you cheer him on by saying, "His father was abusive, you know--and he's only doing this to rebel against him."

    Your excuse-making is almost more execrable than the violent rioting, looting, and arson. Their actions speak for themselves--I guess those shopkeepers and flat-renters really had it coming?
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    If he entered my house after breaking a window, I would be absolutely willing to fire the gun and kill him. 16 year olds can carry knives and guns just like any full grown man, and might even be able to overpower me or react faster than me. If he doesn't want to risk his life, he shouldn't be breaking into peoples' homes.
    So where do you draw the line? 10 year olds can carry knives too, I think a 13 year old was actually "arrested". Or does it not make a difference to you whether it's a child or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    It's just an excuse.
    What is just an excuse? And btw Clive I'm not "cheering" anyone on.

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    Your excuse-making is almost more execrable than the violent rioting, looting, and arson. Their actions speak for themselves--I guess those shopkeepers and flat-renters really had it coming?
    What excuse making would that be? Who am I making excuses for? Point out where I have personally made an excuse for them and not merely made a guess as to where their mentality stems from.

    -------------------------------

    On a different note: During the riots my friends car was parked within the boundaries of the rioting. The Police have taken his car, without trying to get in contact with him - or it's owner who is his mother. When we tried to find out why his car had been taken, the impound people said it had been taken for forensics... For absolutely no reason whatsoever. They haven't told him when he will be getting it back nor have they told him WHY his car was picked out of all the cars on the street.

    The Police have not been in contact with him AT ALL.

    It's this kind of unprofessional, annoying behaviour by the Police that gets people angry. The car may as well have been stolen.
    .::The Swindall::.

    "...In the beginning, man created god"

  20. #20
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    Re: Rioters in Europe need to get over themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    So where do you draw the line? 10 year olds can carry knives too, I think a 13 year old was actually "arrested". Or does it not make a difference to you whether it's a child or not?
    When deciding whether to use lethal force, what matters is whether I have a reasonable fear for my life. A 10-year-old who enters my house with a gun? Yes, I'd be willing to shoot him. A 10-year-old who enters my house with a knife? Less willing. If I'm far enough away, I'd probably display my weapon and ask him to leave. But in a small enough domicile--like a flat or an apartment--I might not be able to safely display my weapon and give him the chance to leave.

    What is just an excuse? And btw Clive I'm not "cheering" anyone on.
    This was your response to the violence, arson, and even killing:

    They need to stop now, the damage has been done and the message has been sent.

    That's what they were doing in your view, just "sending a message". The people who were almost killed, whose livelihoods were destroyed, they were just unlucky; after all, in order to send a message, you have to loot, burn down shops and homes, and kill some people defending themselves.

    What excuse making would that be? Who am I making excuses for? Point out where I have personally made an excuse for them and not merely made a guess as to where their mentality stems from.
    You called the riots "displays of protest". There is a right to protest, a right grounded in centuries of common law in the U.S. and Britain. You are sheltering them under this category and lending them wholly undeserved legitimacy. Their actions are contrary to the rule of law, the social contract, and basic human civilization. They are thugs, hooligans, criminals, the refuse of society. They deserved to be very thoroughly punished, and be made to restore what they have wrongfully destroyed.

    How you can speak of them in such noble terms is beyond me. Flagrantly criminal acts like this should merit only condemnatory language, not high-flying noble characterizations.

    On a different note: During the riots my friends car was parked within the boundaries of the rioting. The Police have taken his car, without trying to get in contact with him - or it's owner who is his mother. When we tried to find out why his car had been taken, the impound people said it had been taken for forensics... For absolutely no reason whatsoever. They haven't told him when he will be getting it back nor have they told him WHY his car was picked out of all the cars on the street.

    The Police have not been in contact with him AT ALL.

    It's this kind of unprofessional, annoying behaviour by the Police that gets people angry. The car may as well have been stolen.
    Maybe if they had set it on fire instead, you would have described their actions as "protest".
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

 

 
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