Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Banned Indefinitely
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like

    S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    The South Korean military's firefinder radar systems to respond to surprise attacks by North Korean long-range artillery are not only lacking in terms of number, but are prone to breakdowns.

    North Korea has deployed 340 long-range artillery pieces including 170 mm self-propelled howitzers and 240 mm multiple rocket launchers along the western frontline near the demilitarized zone, and the weapons are aimed directly at Seoul and other metropolitan areas. But out of the 20 anti-artillery radar systems the military has, six Arthur radars imported from Sweden broke down 78 times last year, while the U.S.-made TPQ-36 and 37 malfunctioned 98 and 60 times over the past five years. Experts say at least 10 more radars are needed in order to put up an effective defense.

    North Korea's long-range artillery has ranges of between 54 km and 65 km and is capable of hitting Seoul, Incheon and even further south. The 240 mm multiple rocket launchers can even fire chemical warheads. That is what North Korea is talking about when it threatens to turn Seoul into a "sea of fire."

    The military keeps track of North Korean long-range artillery positions using surveillance drones and spy satellites. In the event of a full-blown war where the North uses all of its long-range artillery pieces at once, the South would seek to disable those positions by mobilizing some 40 F-15K and 130 KF-16 fighter jets that will fire precision-guided missiles.

    But the problem is when North Korea attacks Seoul using a few long-range artillery rounds in sporadic attacks. In that case, the South needs to wait until the North fires the rounds and backtrack the trajectory of the projectile to locate the source. That is where the anti-artillery radar comes in.

    When there are so many malfunctions and there are not enough radars, the military will not be able to deal effectively with artillery attacks. The U.S.-made radars apparently break down often because they are outdated, while the Swedish ones malfunction due to overuse since there are not enough of them. If one or two long-range artillery shells land on Seoul, the fire could spread to gas and fuel pipelines, engulfing the city. Seoul must act immediately to bolster its anti-artillery radar systems and put up a viable, 24-hour defense to avoid a nightmare scenario.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    9,174
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    Is there a problem with them buying more?
    To serve man.

  3. #3
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    10,756
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    This happens to be my military specialty. As a Field Artillery officer we use the Q-36 and 37 quite often to plan counter-battery fires (the first step in any real war just as fighter on fighter aircraft is the first step in air superiority).

    While those failure rates are high they are not really that bad over the period of time. The question is overlap, these systems should be able to overlap each other so if one malfunctions another picks up the shot. Buying more isn't necessarily the answer, though increased maintenance downtime might necessitate it. I would recommend they allocate more resources to preventive maintenance and a regular overhall.

    The good news is that most of N. Korea's artillery is monstrously old and likely to tube failure if they shoot. This means that a majority of their artillery rounds (and probably MLRS) will fall short of the target perhaps even being lodged or exploding the artillery tube. It is also primarily of the towed type meaning that if we have units ready to counter battery (and we likely would). Our counter fire would land before they were able to escape meaning that the first round they fire would be the last round. The bad news is that N.Korea has enough artillery to devastate Seoul on the first shot, so counter-battery will only help the follow on war.

    The idea that one or two rounds would be enough to crush Seoul isn't quite accurate I think (maybe two rounds per tube) but not one or two rounds in general. There would certainly be casualties but it would need to be a significant shelling to really damage the city. The N. Koreans are torn here, they can either use all their artillery to hit the city and hope they do enough damage knowing that their artillery will then be destroyed for the remainder of the war. Or they can focus it on the military forces in the south and hope that frees them up to hit Seoul later.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  4. #4
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    447
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    Plum, you are neglecting to mention the large U.S. military presence both on the Korean peninsula and in Japan. In addition U.S. intelligence assets undoubtedly already know the exact location of most, if not all of the North's artillery assets, especially those already trained on Seoul.

    While Squatch is correct that there would undoubtedly be many casualties should Kim decide to start something, it would be a rather short war as artillery is their only real threat. Their armor and air forces are woefully inadequate to retaliation handle from American and other Korean allies, and their artillery would be obliterated rather quickly at the onset of hostilities. Everyone knows this, especially Kim, which is why he constantly postures but never does anything.

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pray for our troops
    Posts
    5,340
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    1.) Kim is a nut-job. North Koreans have suffered under more than 60 years of this nutjob and his nutjob father. Most of his people are certifiably brainwashed, and exhibit symptoms like people in a cult. Should China and/or Russia ever lose what sway they have over him....things could get really bad really fast.

    2.) I don't put much stock in US intelligence, or high-tech whiz bang gadgetry. The Serbians made our high-tech stuff look impotent. First by shooting down a supposedly "invisible" F117 with just a little ingenuity and an "old" but reliable Soviet-era heat-seeking missile. Them, after our bombing campaign in Kosovo, observers were shocked to see so many pieces of Serb armor and artillery intact. According to US BDAs almost all of it should have been toast. The Serbs were using WWII-era tactics with a twist, and found they could trick US fighter-bombers to target dummy tanks and artillery by using just a little diesel fuel to "warm-up" the dummies and make them appear real.

    3.) Korea is Light Infantry country. The terrain is not suited to armor. Mechanized forces are just mechanized targets for skilled infantry. The weather there is brutal in the winter. US forces have not fought a winter war since the last time we fought in Korea, and we came very close to losing that war more than once. Our cold-weather ability has not improved one bit.

    4.) The logistical train to Korea is still long. We have only a handful of troops there now. ROK forces are top notch...but has their society become too soft making Ikeas and building the world's cargo ships?



    If I were Kim, I would infiltrate forces days in advance of my attack, wait for a spell of really bad weather during the winter, and then go for broke, targetting my artillery for US and ROK radars and air installations. Then I would direct the artillery to rain HE, Incendiary and chemical shells on Seoul, Inchon, and military staging areas. The aim would be to push US forces off the Peninsula in less than two weeks, while China and Russia fly diplomatic cover for me.

    Given what the US owes China today and will for some time to come -- what could the US say or do if our largest "lender" told us we were going to have to sit still and just accept it? Add to this mix, a US people weary of war, ignorant of the history that led to the special pact between the US and ROK...and well...It does not look good.

    My advice to ROK -- do it to them, before they do it to you. Choose the place and timing of your attack and zap that little fff.....er... feller.
    "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born" -- Ronald Reagan

    How can a moral wrong be a Civil Right?

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    10
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    north Korea has always been an extremely unpredictable country - as other users have said, their former leader was a complete nutcase as should have been locked up in a mental hospital.

    but in it's current position, bolstering defences would not be a sensible choice - arming south korean borders with weapons would doubtlessly lead to an arms race at the borders, and a stand-off between the north and south with ensue.


    the thing we have to remember is that we need to avoid conflicts at all costs.

    for now, it seems we'll have to wait for a response from N. korea's new leader to see what action he will take. encouraging diplomacy until then will certainly help in the short term.

  7. #7
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    10,756
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumorousone View Post
    but in it's current position, bolstering defences would not be a sensible choice - arming south korean borders with weapons would doubtlessly lead to an arms race at the borders, and a stand-off between the north and south with ensue.
    I'm not convinced that that is a bad thing. Given that IBM could outspend N. Korea in an arms race, what does S. Korea care?

    Quote Originally Posted by humorousone
    the thing we have to remember is that we need to avoid conflicts at all costs.
    Even the sovereignty of S. Korea? What about millions of starving N. Koreans? Why must we avoid conflict here?
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  8. #8
    Force42
    Guest

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    South Korea needs to purchase the 'Iron Dome' technology from Israel. Seoul is just too close to the DPRK firing line.

  9. #9
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    10,756
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    Quote Originally Posted by Force42 View Post
    South Korea needs to purchase the 'Iron Dome' technology from Israel. Seoul is just too close to the DPRK firing line.
    Iron Dome is an anti-missle technology, it isn't particularly effective against 155 or comparable artillery systems. Currently the closest option is the modified Phalanx system that was deployed in Iraq.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  10. #10
    xoxo123
    Guest

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    I think South Korea has high-tech weaponry enough to defend North Korea.
    N. Korea is breaking down due to silly 3 Kims.
    If little pig Kim Jong-Un abandon the nuke, N. Korea will collapse sooner or later.

  11. #11
    Llamapok
    Guest

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    rtestttt

  12. #12
    cydonex
    Guest

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    The assumption in the argument is that war between North Korea and South Korea is inevitable. While it is useful to argue that "IF North Korea is certain to shell South Korea, South Korea ought to bolster its defence", this is an untenable position in the real world.

    1. North Korea knows it will inevitably lose in any confrontation with South Korea (with massive US support). China would not support the North Korean regime militarily. It has stated in a Wikileaks cable that it is open to reunification of the two Koreas, and has been vexed by the North's belligerence. Most importantly, China does not want to risk war with the US which would turn the local war into a global one.

    2. Kim Jong-un's closest advisor, Jang Song-thaek, is reportedly favourable towards developing the country economically. He has immense political say in the regime, making it likely that he will attempt to curtail Kim's antagonistic measures to promote conciliatory economic measures (such as the Sunshine policy).

    Furthermore, any amassing of weapons will result in a response by North Korea. When the North realises that South Korea is increasing its military capacity, they will mistakenly believe that the South is getting ready for a full military confrontation. Therefore, they will increase military purchases from Chin! and Russia to bolster their army, and raise military readiness. This exacerbates tensions in the region, which would eventually break the fragile stabile situation, reducing the possibility of diplomatic options, and vastly increasing the propensity for war.

    In conclusion, South Korea should not bolster its defence because it sends the wrong message to North Korea, unnecessarily raising tensions and the risk of war.

  13. #13
    Elliron
    Guest

    Re: S.Korea Must Bolster Its Defense Against N.Korean Artillery

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post

    If I were Kim, I would infiltrate forces days in advance of my attack, wait for a spell of really bad weather during the winter, and then go for broke, targetting my artillery for US and ROK radars and air installations. Then I would direct the artillery to rain HE, Incendiary and chemical shells on Seoul, Inchon, and military staging areas. The aim would be to push US forces off the Peninsula in less than two weeks, while China and Russia fly diplomatic cover for me.

    Given what the US owes China today and will for some time to come -- what could the US say or do if our largest "lender" told us we were going to have to sit still and just accept it? Add to this mix, a US people weary of war, ignorant of the history that led to the special pact between the US and ROK...and well...It does not look good.

    My advice to ROK -- do it to them, before they do it to you. Choose the place and timing of your attack and zap that little fff.....er... feller.
    Two weeks is a long time when you have a military with no combat experience pushing a military with 10 years of combat experience. Who happens to out number you, have far better technology and a superior Navy and Airforce sitting right on your door step.

    If China said that to the United States our response would simply be, alright then we will not pay you back and ban all Chinese imports. China has more to lose from a war with the United States than the United States does. There are plenty of countries that would love to replace China as our leading Importer. I am not even sure if China would survive that, as their people are growing accustomed to a certain life style. I do not believe they would be happy with having to give up their Ipads, Cars, and Fur Coats.

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •