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  1. #1
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    Exclamation What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    I know they are people who have been taking it to their own free will to abduct and rape a subject. This is completely horrible and disgusting but to be isolated to such extent. Yet also understand they are not in jail some are roaming the streets after jail but still have small boundaries. Could you as a human give some free term right to extend boundaries to those people. Yes or no and explain using some type of reasonable logic.

  2. #2
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinspear View Post
    I know they are people who have been taking it to their own free will to abduct and rape a subject. This is completely horrible and disgusting but to be isolated to such extent. Yet also understand they are not in jail some are roaming the streets after jail but still have small boundaries. Could you as a human give some free term right to extend boundaries to those people. Yes or no and explain using some type of reasonable logic.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you asking whether we should extend the boundaries of the hunting ground of free-roaming rapists? Do we even get to control those boundaries?
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  3. #3
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    What I am trying explain here is what should you as a person to consider to give more room to those "rapist" and why. But now that you mention it: what are their real oppurtunities we give those people for sure they can't get employed due to their record so if they can't pay for their isolated house because that "rapist isn't going to live in the town homes or department where famliy's dwell in. They need some way to get money resource so by extending those boundaries both in oppurtunity & distance wise can you allow that? Plus put in the mix the years of probation and rehab for them.

  4. #4
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinspear View Post
    What I am trying explain here is what should you as a person to consider to give more room to those "rapist" and why.
    Well in answer to this - I PERSONALLY don't particularly want to give rapists more "room" for anything. Why would I?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinspear View Post
    But now that you mention it: what are their real oppurtunities we give those people for sure they can't get employed due to their record so if they can't pay for their isolated house because that "rapist isn't going to live in the town homes or department where famliy's dwell in. They need some way to get money resource so by extending those boundaries both in oppurtunity & distance wise can you allow that? Plus put in the mix the years of probation and rehab for them.
    So, you're more concerned with what jobs someone like this would be left to attain? In that case I'm sure there are many things put in place for these people after jail - Employment officers etc. Sure, they won't be hired for a good position anywhere (possibly) but then they have themselves to blame, don't they. Whatever they get, I would suggest they be grateful they are not spending the rest of their LIFE in jail, which some would argue they deserve.

    Why should they be given any more than this after sexually assaulting someone in this manner?

    Would you personally want to work with someone who has forcefully raped someone else? I think I'd have a negative view on said person and question their judgements in the workplace.
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  5. #5
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    I read a brief article about rehabilitation efforts in nordic countries. Prisoners live fairly comfortable and fairly normal lives in relatively isolated locations subsidized by the state. More like a country cottage than a jail. The idea is they are teaching these folks how to live normal decent lives.

    They have a very low recidivism rate compared to prisons (not surprising for me). Thing of it is... is it just? I suppose it depends on your sense of justice. Certainly it doesn't feel just to me, but it does make for a good question from a social perspective. If you can rehabilitate effectively, but it requires forgoing punishment, is that a good trade off?
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  6. #6
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I read a brief article about rehabilitation efforts in nordic countries. Prisoners live fairly comfortable and fairly normal lives in relatively isolated locations subsidized by the state. More like a country cottage than a jail. The idea is they are teaching these folks how to live normal decent lives.

    They have a very low recidivism rate compared to prisons (not surprising for me). Thing of it is... is it just? I suppose it depends on your sense of justice. Certainly it doesn't feel just to me, but it does make for a good question from a social perspective. If you can rehabilitate effectively, but it requires forgoing punishment, is that a good trade off?
    Not really. We could bury them in a hole and recidivism would be 0%. I am all for that. Of course, the U.S. has been run amok with pansies so fat chance of that happening. I am all for putting them on an island. I wouldn't make it pleasant. Just an island and they can fend for themselves. No contact with the outside world ever again. They have freedom, punishment, and zero percent chance of harming society. Sure, they can rape and maim each other, but that's all part of the punishment I guess. Just push em off the boat and with a clean t-shirt, pants, and underwear and wish em good luck. Don't even give them shoes and socks. Don't even bring the boat to land. Push them into the water about 1/2 mill off shore and if they aren't on shore in 10 minutes, they get a bullet. Seriously. Why do people spend so much time hand-wringing about this people? Apparently, the island would have a very strong Catholic system and a pretty good football team. Now I'll wait as the wusses come out of the wood works to cry about human rights.
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  7. #7
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Now I'll wait as the wusses come out of the wood works to cry about human rights.
    Not a lot of that on ODN I think. The soft hearted tend to get chased out before too long, debate is a harsh business.

    I'm fairly low tolerance for murder, kidnapping or violent rape. (I make exceptions for statutory rape or parents who "kidnap" their own children, still crimes but not the same thing as the others.) I'm OK with capital punishment (so long as you are really really sure you have the right person). I'd be OK with the Island thing too I suppose, the problem is there isn't much land left to exile anyone to. Exile used to be a pretty common and rather humane kind of punishment, but it just isn't practical any more. (though if we ever colonize other planets...)

    Now for property crimes and the like, or assaults that aren't really a grave danger, I actually think rehabilitation is a good idea and that we need to give folks a chance to prove they can cooperate if shown how. And I think a system that has them practice a normal life is better than one that has them live a strange and twisted kind of life for a number of years.
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  8. #8
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    I look at it this way. As a liberal (yes, really) I'm not in the least interested in punishment. What must be faced is that the recidivism rate for rapists and many other types of criminals is very high. So do we need them? I don't think so. Did they have a bad deal in life? Quite possibly, but then no-one said life is fair. So in cases of hopeless recidivism for any crime (including parking tickets!) or any repeat offence of crimes like paedophilia or rape or murder or violent robbery or large-scale fraud why not just painlessly put them to death? All this stuff about human life being sacred is rubbish. It goes out the window in a trice in war situations.

  9. #9
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    Is there an argument in there somewhere?

  10. #10
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by aodagain View Post
    I look at it this way. As a liberal (yes, really) I'm not in the least interested in punishment. What must be faced is that the recidivism rate for rapists and many other types of criminals is very high. So do we need them? I don't think so. Did they have a bad deal in life? Quite possibly, but then no-one said life is fair. So in cases of hopeless recidivism for any crime (including parking tickets!) or any repeat offence of crimes like paedophilia or rape or murder or violent robbery or large-scale fraud why not just painlessly put them to death? All this stuff about human life being sacred is rubbish. It goes out the window in a trice in war situations.
    Recidivism for unpaid parking tickets results in death??? lol. I can imagine the conversation on death row
    Prisoner A: What you in for boy?
    Prisoner B: Hung my mother and buried her in the backyard. How bout you?
    Prisoner A: Kept parking in a red zone.
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  11. #11
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    So what you're asking is what sort of governing, if any, should be done over a convicted rapist once they are out of prison?
    In response to that question, I believe it should be made public. Said rapist should have something on their ID or elsewhere that lets anyone who sees it know what they've done - so I agree with listing then as a sex offender and making those records public. I think anyone around them (especially future lovers) has the right to know, especially if it's an indication that the former rapist is inclined to violence and it was not just a isolated event.
    As far as job opportunities go, I think the former rapist should be able to get any job as long as they're qualified for it. However, they should have to mention their rape in the interview/application when asked about ever being convicted, and if the prospective employer still considers them qualified, then all right. Beyond the hiring, I also believe certain precautions should be taken by the employer; for instance, they should not be left alone with anyone for any length of time.
    I also think they should have to go to counseling of some sort to maybe - hopefully - rehabilitate.

  12. #12
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    There are lots of different levels of sexual crimes. An 18 year old having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend. A couple of drunks at a party and one takes it too far in their car in the parking lot. The serial rapist/pedophile who actually has a physical/sexual need to rape and abuse. Those that are not "one-hit-wonders" and determined by experts to be likely to re-offend should be kept away from society as a whole even after their sentences are completed. This is good for society and good for the offender who cannot control themselves. An island, and isolated area far from civilization, or a compound where they can live and work freely as long as they never physically leave the confines works for me. Or maybe even supervised trips to the outside world with ankle bracelets and satellite tracking would be ok.

  13. #13
    Gham
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    Re: What should be the limits to predators of any sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonloop View Post
    There are lots of different levels of sexual crimes. An 18 year old having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend. A couple of drunks at a party and one takes it too far in their car in the parking lot. The serial rapist/pedophile who actually has a physical/sexual need to rape and abuse. Those that are not "one-hit-wonders" and determined by experts to be likely to re-offend should be kept away from society as a whole even after their sentences are completed.
    I agree with this,If your 18 year old son was convicted of statutory rape of his 15 year old girlfriend would you put him in the same catagory as Jerry Sandusky?
    Of course not,here lies the problem with mandatory sentencing and not allowing judges to evaluate the course of punishment and how well each individual can return to society.

 

 

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