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  1. #1
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    Darwin's birthday

    February 12 is Charles Darwin's birthday. There links suggest a good way to observe it.

    http://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman

    http://www.piltdownsuperman.com/p/qu...ion-video.html
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  2. #2
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    Until an alternative theory that produces predictions that can be verified by experiment and actual data and facts, Evolution is the best set of ideas that we have regarding the relationship between all the living creatures on this planet.

    Science has move far beyond his original ideas: we discovered genetics so we have a physical mechanism to explain how evolution could have come about, the ambiogenetisists are figuring out how this could have come about and are we have far more samples of fossils than Darwin did during his lifetime and comparative physiology shows that animals from current and past are indeed similar in form and follow a related tree of life.

    It's also a bit weird to describe Darwin almost in the same terms as a prophet - he was just the first (and not even the only) man to come to the conclusion. Evolution isn't a religion with "Papa Darwin" dictating the way, any more is physics is owned by Einstein. And to call people "Evolutionists" makes as little sense that calling people "Gravityists". It's a very strange framing of the issue. It's a fun site though, I'd almost forgotten how wrong Creationists can be after the Comfort thing a couple of years ago.

  3. #3
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    I was once a Young Earth Creationist, then I did exactly as you proposed and seriously questioned Evolution. Now I accept it as fact. Still very much a Christian, that has not changed. So by all means, question evolution on Darwin's birthday.

    That being said, there really is a more "ironic" issue here. That is how in the last few years, really due to the efforts of the new atheists like Richard Dawkins, there has been almost a deification of Darwin. My boss keeps a photo of him in his office. I know one professor that has a bust of him. People seriously celebrate his birthday. When you look at it closely, it is comparable to how a Catholics celebrate the special days of various Saints. How Islam would honor Mohammed. Etc. There is no small irony that the atheist community does this. Coupled with how many new atheists have begun organizing in ways that mimic religions, it all adds up to an attempt to create a new religion to replace the old. All of this from those who for so long have blasted everything aspect of Religion.

    ---------- Post added at 12:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    Until an alternative theory that produces predictions that can be verified by experiment and actual data and facts, Evolution is the best set of ideas that we have regarding the relationship between all the living creatures on this planet.

    Science has move far beyond his original ideas: we discovered genetics so we have a physical mechanism to explain how evolution could have come about, the ambiogenetisists are figuring out how this could have come about and are we have far more samples of fossils than Darwin did during his lifetime and comparative physiology shows that animals from current and past are indeed similar in form and follow a related tree of life.

    It's also a bit weird to describe Darwin almost in the same terms as a prophet - he was just the first (and not even the only) man to come to the conclusion. Evolution isn't a religion with "Papa Darwin" dictating the way, any more is physics is owned by Einstein. And to call people "Evolutionists" makes as little sense that calling people "Gravityists". It's a very strange framing of the issue. It's a fun site though, I'd almost forgotten how wrong Creationists can be after the Comfort thing a couple of years ago.
    Darwin wasn't even the first and whats an ambiogenetisist?

  4. #4
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    I was once a Young Earth Creationist, then I did exactly as you proposed and seriously questioned Evolution. Now I accept it as fact. Still very much a Christian, that has not changed. So by all means, question evolution on Darwin's birthday.

    That being said, there really is a more "ironic" issue here. That is how in the last few years, really due to the efforts of the new atheists like Richard Dawkins, there has been almost a deification of Darwin. My boss keeps a photo of him in his office. I know one professor that has a bust of him. People seriously celebrate his birthday. When you look at it closely, it is comparable to how a Catholics celebrate the special days of various Saints. How Islam would honor Mohammed. Etc. There is no small irony that the atheist community does this. Coupled with how many new atheists have begun organizing in ways that mimic religions, it all adds up to an attempt to create a new religion to replace the old. All of this from those who for so long have blasted everything aspect of Religion.
    For goodness sake, have you never had a movie poster of a famous actor or really admired a sportsman or buy follow an author or artist in detail? It seems to be the Creationists who are doing the deification - what he did was great but the science that came afterwards, the bulk of which confirms his original ideas is where the real truth of Evolution is. See Comforts ludicrous stunt a couple of years ago to see him try to destroy Darwin as a man (married cousin, launched the Holocaust, etc) as if any of that has anything to do with the science of Evolution!

    No one "prays" to these things, and no-one looks to his private life for the inner workings of how to live a better life, and outside of Evolution, no-one really cares what else he did. Its nothing more than being a fan-boy. Celebrating his birthday takes it a tad far for me but I agree it's as silly as celebrating the special days of Saints - at least for Darwin existed and his achievements well known.

    Keeping a bust or picture of Darwin is nowhere near deifying him. And Darwin has always represented some kind of nerd cred so it's not really a big deal beyond that. Yesteryear, it was Einstein occupying the same positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Darwin wasn't even the first and whats an ambiogenetisist?
    Alfred Wallace had very similar ideas to Darwin and forced Darwin's hand get the book published so that he could get the ideas out first. They ended up presenting a joint paper but Darwin definitely took the lion's share. Mendel also discovered through pea pod breeding a mechanism as to how evolution might come about.

    I think I made up ambiogenetisist since it's misspelled - it's those scientists studying Abiogenesis - how the whole thing got kicked off.

  5. #5
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK
    For goodness sake, have you never had a movie poster of a famous actor or really admired a sportsman or buy follow an author or artist in detail? It seems to be the Creationists who are doing the deification - what he did was great but the science that came afterwards, the bulk of which confirms his original ideas is where the real truth of Evolution is. See Comforts ludicrous stunt a couple of years ago to see him try to destroy Darwin as a man (married cousin, launched the Holocaust, etc) as if any of that has anything to do with the science of Evolution!

    No one "prays" to these things, and no-one looks to his private life for the inner workings of how to live a better life, and outside of Evolution, no-one really cares what else he did. Its nothing more than being a fan-boy. Celebrating his birthday takes it a tad far for me but I agree it's as silly as celebrating the special days of Saints - at least for Darwin existed and his achievements well known.

    Keeping a bust or picture of Darwin is nowhere near deifying him. And Darwin has always represented some kind of nerd cred so it's not really a big deal beyond that. Yesteryear, it was Einstein occupying the same positions.
    Actually no....I never had posters or anything like that....true story.

    Its not the having the pictures or bust alone that takes it too the level of deification. Celebrating his birthday, as you admit is taking it a bit far.

    Look at the lengths that some take to celebrate him:

    Raise a glass to celebrate science & humanity on the occasion of Charles Darwin’s birthday! Free admission, appetizers and birthday cake, plus 75 free drinks, first come, first serve. Guests are invited to bring toasts, poems, limericks, readings, stories, songs, Darwin impersonations, and whatever else might add to the festivities as we honor the man who put us in our rightful, natural place.

    Why Darwin Day?
    The objective of Darwin Day Celebration is to encourage organizations and individuals to celebrate Science and Humanity every year, on, or near, February 12, Darwin's birthday. At this juncture in history, the world has become so small and interdependent that we need a Global Celebration to promote a common bond among all people. The Darwin Day Celebration was founded on the premise that science, like music, is an international language that speaks to all people in very similar ways. Charles Darwin is a worthy symbol on which to focus, in order to build a Global Celebration of Science and Humanity that is intended to promote solidarity among all people of the earth.

    http://www.naturalism.org/darwinday.htm

    http://darwinday.org/

    Its one thing to honor an important historical figure, but the extent that some take it is nothing short or equivalent to a religious celebration.

    Nothing of equivalence is done to celebrate Einstein.

    Alfred Wallace had very similar ideas to Darwin and forced Darwin's hand get the book published so that he could get the ideas out first. They ended up presenting a joint paper but Darwin definitely took the lion's share. Mendel also discovered through pea pod breeding a mechanism as to how evolution might come about.
    Before either of them there was Maupertuis, Erasmus Darwin, and Lamark. All proposed some form of evolutionary change. The idea of decent with modification was not new necessarily, it was the specifics such as Natural Selection that set his specific theory apart.

    I think I made up ambiogenetisist since it's misspelled - it's those scientists studying Abiogenesis - how the whole thing got kicked off.
    Evolution has solid ground, but abiogenesis, to be frank, is still nothing but speculation and honestly, I am an agnostic on it, leaning towards thinking its junk.

  6. #6
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Actually no....I never had posters or anything like that....true story.
    Neither do I but I mean other humans do.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Its not the having the pictures or bust alone that takes it too the level of deification. Celebrating his birthday, as you admit is taking it a bit far.

    Look at the lengths that some take to celebrate him:

    Raise a glass to celebrate science & humanity on the occasion of Charles Darwin’s birthday! Free admission, appetizers and birthday cake, plus 75 free drinks, first come, first serve. Guests are invited to bring toasts, poems, limericks, readings, stories, songs, Darwin impersonations, and whatever else might add to the festivities as we honor the man who put us in our rightful, natural place.

    Why Darwin Day?
    The objective of Darwin Day Celebration is to encourage organizations and individuals to celebrate Science and Humanity every year, on, or near, February 12, Darwin's birthday. At this juncture in history, the world has become so small and interdependent that we need a Global Celebration to promote a common bond among all people. The Darwin Day Celebration was founded on the premise that science, like music, is an international language that speaks to all people in very similar ways. Charles Darwin is a worthy symbol on which to focus, in order to build a Global Celebration of Science and Humanity that is intended to promote solidarity among all people of the earth.

    http://www.naturalism.org/darwinday.htm

    http://darwinday.org/

    Its one thing to honor an important historical figure, but the extent that some take it is nothing short or equivalent to a religious celebration.
    That's not so much a celebration of Darwin himself as a celebration of Science and Humanity like they said. And it is to recognize the importance of the idea of evolution and its paradigm shift in biology as well as its influences in other sciences. It's about the process of science and the importance of evolution within it. Calling it Evolution Day or Science Day doesn't have quite the same spin.

    But again, depending on your definition on religion I suppose, I don't see the connection with religion. It's not an emotional celebration - no one will be prostrating themselves in front of a statue of Darwin, speaking in an English accent, possessed by the demon of science and exclaiming equations and facts. There aren't going to be any hymns glorifying Darwin sung by a choir and there will be no rituals done in order to gain his favor: no chickens will be sacrificed to honor him and there would be no framework to live ones life as he did delivered to attendees. There will be no speaking to him, in deed or thought, and expecting (or receiving!) any answer - he will not be sought for knowledge regarding modern problems.

    Given your insinuations, everything that requires any kind of belief system or celebration is a religion! Please support exactly what you mean by religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Nothing of equivalence is done to celebrate Einstein.
    Well, I guess because he didn't change the course of human kind as a by product of his work:

    It developed out of a 1994 brainstorming session when Bob Stephens suggested the idea of celebrating Darwin Day as a way to acknowledge the importance of science in the modern world.

    (src - the first Drawin Day celebration).

    Most of all though, I think this is in response to those that do not accept evolution due to their religious beliefs. From its first publication, humanity split into accepting its truth or clinging to the falsehoods of their religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Before either of them there was Maupertuis, Erasmus Darwin, and Lamark. All proposed some form of evolutionary change. The idea of decent with modification was not new necessarily, it was the specifics such as Natural Selection that set his specific theory apart.
    True given that we'd been breeding animals for our history. But it was also the audacity to say that humans are also animals, part of a continuum of change from species to species, not just intra-species.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Evolution has solid ground, but abiogenesis, to be frank, is still nothing but speculation and honestly, I am an agnostic on it, leaning towards thinking its junk.
    Well, I'm not really sure what there is to be agnostic about - there are no results, just ideas. Or are you saying that there was no beginning? That the first RNA was explicitly combined by God?

  7. #7
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    I think this bears repeating: Darwin did not discover or invent evolution, he simply found the first solid evidence that supported natural selection as the mechanism by which evolution occurs.

    Despite this, would it be fair to say that Darwin's contribution to modern biology is on par with Einstein's contribution to modern physics?

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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl28 View Post
    I think this bears repeating: Darwin did not discover or invent evolution, he simply found the first solid evidence that supported natural selection as the mechanism by which evolution occurs.

    Despite this, would it be fair to say that Darwin's contribution to modern biology is on par with Einstein's contribution to modern physics?
    On the number of connected disciplines, probably Darwin wins out. Evolution and natural selection touches the physical biological sciences as well as the social ones. Einstein's theories affects far fewer.

    Natural selection is also a mechanism that works in disciplines outside of biology so I'd say that overall Darwin wins.

    And evolution by means of natural selection is also understandable to children, not so much Einstein. So I would venture that Darwin is more inspirational.

  9. #9
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl28 View Post
    I think this bears repeating: Darwin did not discover or invent evolution, he simply found the first solid evidence that supported natural selection as the mechanism by which evolution occurs.
    All natural selection does is determine which members of an already existing species are more likely to survive. It is simply selection form characteristics that already exist. It doesn't explain how those characteristics came into existence in the first place.

    The processes of natural selection that we can observe are completely compatable with the Bible's account of creation.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...y-within-kinds

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...gers-wholphins
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    Re: Darwin's birthday

    Quote Originally Posted by theophilus View Post
    All natural selection does is determine which members of an already existing species are more likely to survive. It is simply selection form characteristics that already exist. It doesn't explain how those characteristics came into existence in the first place.

    The processes of natural selection that we can observe are completely compatable with the Bible's account of creation.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...y-within-kinds

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...gers-wholphins
    Indeed, theophilus; I would consider such a position an enlightened one. At least you are open to the possibility that science does not need to be in conflict with one's religious beliefs. That is a difficult path to tread for a person of faith. Were that there were more people with your attitude, imagine how much more could be accomplished?

 

 

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