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  1. #1
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    Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    The presidential Republican primary is coming to Texas this month, and I plan to vote for Ron Paul. Of course, he's not going to win the nomination. So, in the general election I'll have to choose a third-party candidate (probably Paul if he runs third-party), because I'm pretty disillusioned with the two-party system and its usual candidates.

    Has anyone here voted third-party before? Does anyone vote exclusively third-party? It's an appealing idea to many people, but when it comes down to it, it often doesn't seem worth it, and like just throwing away one's vote (which it actually is, in our current system).

  2. #2
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    The presidential Republican primary is coming to Texas this month, and I plan to vote for Ron Paul. Of course, he's not going to win the nomination. So, in the general election I'll have to choose a third-party candidate (probably Paul if he runs third-party), because I'm pretty disillusioned with the two-party system and its usual candidates.

    Has anyone here voted third-party before? Does anyone vote exclusively third-party? It's an appealing idea to many people, but when it comes down to it, it often doesn't seem worth it, and like just throwing away one's vote (which it actually is, in our current system).
    Even worse than throwing your vote away it actually is productive to the party furthest from your views since it reduces the number of votes for their rival.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  3. #3
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Why would you vote for anyone to make decisions for you? Cant you make those same decisions on your own.

    I advise a vote of abstantion in all future elections.

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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    But your abstention does not remove their authority does it? So why then would you abstain and allow others to decide who they should be?
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  5. #5
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by KB
    Has anyone here voted third-party before? Does anyone vote exclusively third-party? It's an appealing idea to many people, but when it comes down to it, it often doesn't seem worth it, and like just throwing away one's vote (which it actually is, in our current system).
    When I was 19 and still a Libertarian, I voted strait line Libertarian in the 2004 elections. Not a single person I voted for won. I then had a falling out with the Libertarian party primarily over their foreign policy and because I am not as hands off on certain governmental involvement such as research, but there was also the realization that I could have more say and effect by voting for one of the two parties which most closely resembled my views then by protesting through either a 3rd party or not voting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SunGuard View Post
    Why would you vote for anyone to make decisions for you? Cant you make those same decisions on your own.

    I advise a vote of abstantion in all future elections.
    Go ahead and not vote, don't complain then when you get bad results, you chose not to participate.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  6. #6
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    Even worse than throwing your vote away it actually is productive to the party furthest from your views since it reduces the number of votes for their rival.
    But shouldn't we give a signal that we want the system to change, and vote for who we truly want to win, even if there's no chance of him being elected? It seems more faithful to one's conscience.

    ---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    When I was 19 and still a Libertarian, I voted strait line Libertarian in the 2004 elections. Not a single person I voted for won. I then had a falling out with the Libertarian party primarily over their foreign policy and because I am not as hands off on certain governmental involvement such as research, but there was also the realization that I could have more say and effect by voting for one of the two parties which most closely resembled my views then by protesting through either a 3rd party or not voting.
    I've come to agree more with the Libertarian Party since 04 in foreign policy. Another fact is, here in Texas the Republican is going to win. So I don't think I'd have much more effect by voting for Romney.

  7. #7
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    But shouldn't we give a signal that we want the system to change, and vote for who we truly want to win, even if there's no chance of him being elected? It seems more faithful to one's conscience.
    I imagine the magnitude of the effect of your vote--both its signalling effect and its effect on the outcome of the election--are so small as to be negligible.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  8. #8
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    But your abstention does not remove their authority does it? So why then would you abstain and allow others to decide who they should be?
    It clears my conscience. I would have made my voice heard. I am not advocating for people not vote, i am advocating for them to vote to abstain.

    They only have authority over me if I let them have it. Otherwise I am Free.

    ---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Go ahead and not vote, don't complain then when you get bad results, you chose not to participate.
    Where did I say that I would not vote? My vote is one of abstantion, that is different than not voting.

    You could also call it a vote for "None of the Above".

  9. #9
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    I imagine the magnitude of the effect of your vote--both its signalling effect and its effect on the outcome of the election--are so small as to be negligible.
    Isn't that true for every individual vote?

  10. #10
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunGuard View Post
    It clears my conscience. I would have made my voice heard. I am not advocating for people not vote, i am advocating for them to vote to abstain.

    They only have authority over me if I let them have it. Otherwise I am Free.
    I suppose that depends on your definition of free. They can still imprison you, tax you, etc.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  11. #11
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Isn't that true for every individual vote?
    Yes, but not for every set of votes.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  12. #12
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    Yes, but not for every set of votes.
    Right. I guess I'm missing your point. The signaling effect of a large enough set of third-party votes would not be negligible. In fact, as the largest third party, the Libertarian Party usually receives some media attention after elections for gaining a few percent of the votes.

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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Right. I guess I'm missing your point. The signaling effect of a large enough set of third-party votes would not be negligible. In fact, as the largest third party, the Libertarian Party usually receives some media attention after elections for gaining a few percent of the votes.
    My point is that I, CliveStaples, don't have a good reason to care about what my vote does, since it has no marginal effect given the number of votes that are cast in an election.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  14. #14
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    I suppose that depends on your definition of free. They can still imprison you, tax you, etc.
    I can still be free if I am put in jail against my will. Freedom has nothing to do with physical movement or location, but with the freedom of mind. As long as I can think the way I want to think, then I am free.

    This is why I say that Freedom is far more important than security.

    They can tax me, imprison me, or conscript me all they want, but they wont get me unless they shut off my mind.

  15. #15
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunGuard View Post
    I can still be free if I am put in jail against my will. Freedom has nothing to do with physical movement or location, but with the freedom of mind. As long as I can think the way I want to think, then I am free.

    This is why I say that Freedom is far more important than security.

    They can tax me, imprison me, or conscript me all they want, but they wont get me unless they shut off my mind.
    Perhaps, but that is a pretty limited and insufficient view of freedom. What then would be the crime of me locking you in my basement and torturing you? You are still free by your definition.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  16. #16
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    Re: Third-party candidates: would you/have you voted for one?

    I tend to agree with Squatch's first post.

    It's an obvious case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sort of deal; which really isn't always ideal; but come election season I will vote Republican for 2A reasons this year. They could put a post up for election and I might consider voting .

    Ideally speaking you should vote for whomever you think will represent your interests properly. Realistically speaking you need to pick your battles.

    This election season, in my eyes, is a big one for 2A. Living in IL I feel that stress a lot, and I feel like this state is finally on the verge of catching up to everyone else. With Obama in power again I doubt we could make much of a change.

    Despite the fact that some Republican candidates are actually not as 2A friendly as I'd like; worst case scenario they don't touch the issue. With Obama he most likely will.

    In my eyes I think ideally speaking those who vote for third party candidates because they believe in them are in the right. But if you are strongly opposed to Dem or Rep then you are typically voting for your enemy; or at least giving him another chance.
    Witty puns...

 

 

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