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  1. #1
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    Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    For the first time, the Democrats have chosen not to mention God in their party platform. Until now their platforms have usually made not just one, but numerous mentions of God. As the Declaration of Independence states, our Creator is the source of our irrevocable rights as human beings and as citizens, which government cannot usurp. Besides being the foundation of our socio-political system, well over 90% of Americans believe in God. So what purpose does it serve for the Democrats to do this? I'm sure it pleases the atheists here, but please try and explain how this is a reasonable or beneficial action for the Democrats to take in representing average Americans.

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Was God ever in the platform and if so, where and when did they remove God from their platform?
    "The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” --"The Mental Universe” | Nature
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    For the first time, the Democrats have chosen not to mention God in their party platform. Until now their platforms have usually made not just one, but numerous mentions of God. As the Declaration of Independence states, our Creator is the source of our irrevocable rights as human beings and as citizens, which government cannot usurp. Besides being the foundation of our socio-political system, well over 90% of Americans believe in God. So what purpose does it serve for the Democrats to do this? I'm sure it pleases the atheists here, but please try and explain how this is a reasonable or beneficial action for the Democrats to take in representing average Americans.
    Why does it matter?

    If you want to believe then believe. Why is it important for the government to give you special treatment?

    Perhaps we can meet in the middle? I think if the language was Goddess that it would make most people happy.

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    Was God ever in the platform and if so, where and when did they remove God from their platform?
    Here is an article which provides more details:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...849_story.html

    ---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    Why is it important for the government to give you special treatment?
    No one is getting "special treatment" by including the word "God" in the platform. It is a matter of foundational principles, and of representing the vast majority of Americans, as I stated before. To turn the question around, if it doesn't matter, then why did they change their policy to one of omitting the word "God"? Surely there is a reason and they are trying to send some sort of message. What do you think it is?

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    It would help if you had a link to read up on this.

    Assuming what you say is accurate, I don't have a good answer. Name dropping God is a pretty popular way to gain instant credibility and sooth the religious people in the country so not using it is kind of a surprise.

    It pleases my secular sensibilities as you say, but strategy wise... no clue.

    BTW

    America is closer to 83% theist, not 90%
    http://religions.pewforum.org/reports (see breakdown chart, 16% non religious, and another couple % non "God" religions, Christians are about 78/79%)

    ---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Here is an article which provides more details:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...849_story.html
    Thanks : )

    On detail is that the old one from 2008 had the word God in it a grand total of 1 time. So its not exactly some grand purging. It could well be that section got re written and whomever did it didn't choose to use the word God because they thought their language was better. As Ryan is quoted as saying, its up to the authors to explain what their reason was but I see no reason to assume its a concerted effort or agenda at work to change one word of a political platform.
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Here is an article which provides more details:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...849_story.html

    ---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 PM ----------



    No one is getting "special treatment" by including the word "God" in the platform. It is a matter of foundational principles, and of representing the vast majority of Americans, as I stated before. To turn the question around, if it doesn't matter, then why did they change their policy to one of omitting the word "God"? Surely there is a reason and they are trying to send some sort of message. What do you think it is?
    I would think the message is that hatful people who want to force their religion on everyone can take a hike.

    Also, we won't teach the earth is 6,000 years old in geology class.

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    It would help if you had a link to read up on this.

    Assuming what you say is accurate, I don't have a good answer. Name dropping God is a pretty popular way to gain instant credibility and sooth the religious people in the country so not using it is kind of a surprise.

    It pleases my secular sensibilities as you say, but strategy wise... no clue.

    BTW

    America is closer to 83% theist, not 90%
    http://religions.pewforum.org/reports (see breakdown chart, 16% non religious, and another couple % non "God" religions, Christians are about 78/79%)
    Please see the link I posted above. As for what percentage of Americans believe in God, 83% vs. 90% is practically within the margin of error. Even if we accept 8 out of 10 instead of 9 out of 10, the point still stands.

    ---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    I would think the message is that hatful people who want to force their religion on everyone can take a hike.
    So your view is that the Democrat Party is sending a message criticizing believers in God as "hateful." That doesn't seem like a smart strategy in representing a nation consisting mostly of such believers. Do you also think that the American founders were "hateful" for beginning the Declaration by saying our rights are granted to us by God?

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Surely there is a reason and they are trying to send some sort of message. What do you think it is?
    Thanks for the link and information KB . . . interesting. I agree there's a reason for the omission since the majority of Americans believe in God and/or a higher power/intelligence. I would say a big part of the reason has to do with their base, their core supporters who they have to please and make happy since that's where a party's primary support (financial and political) comes from -- the Democratic base.
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Please see the link I posted above. As for what percentage of Americans believe in God, 83% vs. 90% is practically within the margin of error. Even if we accept 8 out of 10 instead of 9 out of 10, the point still stands.
    And what is the actual margin of error in that survey?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Please see the link I posted above. As for what percentage of Americans believe in God, 83% vs. 90% is practically within the margin of error. Even if we accept 8 out of 10 instead of 9 out of 10, the point still stands.

    ---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------



    So your view is that the Democrat Party is sending a message criticizing believers in God as "hateful." That doesn't seem like a smart strategy in representing a nation consisting mostly of such believers. Do you also think that the American founders were "hateful" for beginning the Declaration by saying our rights are granted to us by God?
    Well I think most Americans are tired of the anti science anti education stance of the right. It's a gamble maybe it will work maybe it won't.

    You weren't going to vote Democrat anyway.

  11. #11
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Here is why this is a non-issue:


    1) The reference was something to the effect of "God-given right to...", and spoke about providing a means for oneself and their family as I recall. I read about this morning, saw the exact 2008 reference and the 2012 change. It simply wasn't a big deal.

    2) There are PLENTY of references to faith and religion, and talking about their importance and historical relevance to this country. It is NOT the case that the Democratic Platform is removing God from their platform, thus making it a "godless" platform. That's just absurd and frankly, bad reasoning. There are plenty of references to God (although, indirectly)...and that's just fine.

    3) Most importantly...Democrats have, as a few moments ago, REINSTATED the language because of the negative publicity. They originally removed their support and language for Jerusalem being the capital of Israel as well. Since the complaining, they have reinstated the language for both.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...arty-platform/

    Frankly, I think the removal of language re: Jerusalem was more problematic than that of God since it is more of a potential for policy setting.
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  13. #12
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    And what is the actual margin of error in that survey?
    The link you posted is from a 2007 poll. Here's one that's a little more current from 2008. These numbers, as far as Americans who believe in God/higher power, have stayed pretty consistent over the decades.

    More Than 90 Percent of Americans Believe in God, Study Finds
    Publication: The Washington Post

    More than 90 percent of Americans -- including one in five people who say they are atheists -- believe in God or a universal power, and more than half pray at least once a day, according to results of a poll released today that takes an in-depth look at Americans' religious beliefs.

    http://www.pewtrusts.org/news_room_detail.aspx?id=40668
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    And what is the actual margin of error in that survey?
    I don't see a margin of error listed in the Pew survey you posted. Typically the margin of error in large national surveys is about 3-4%, from what I've read. I did notice in the Pew survey, that 6% self-identified as "religious unaffiliated." This implies some sort of belief in God, albeit not a member of any particular church, which brings the actual number of theists indicated closer to 89%.

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis;5035713) [B
    Most importantly...Democrats have, as a few moments ago, REINSTATED the language because of the negative publicity
    Ah yes.... the power of public opinion comes through again.
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Maybe it's because they feel the government is suppose to represent all Americans and not just religious Americans.

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Maybe it's because they feel the government is suppose to represent all Americans and not just religious Americans.
    Nearly all Americans are religious in the sense of believing in God, but that's beside the point. Do you think the Declaration of Independence is prejudiced against non-religious Americans, and should be amended?

    And if your comment truly explains how the Democrat delegates feel and why they changed it, then why did they change their minds and revert back to the original language mentioning God? Did they decide that they actually don't want to represent the small number of non-religious Americans after all?

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Nearly all Americans are religious in the sense of believing in God, but that's beside the point. Do you think the Declaration of Independence is prejudiced against non-religious Americans, and should be amended?
    Actually, that's beside the point.

    There's a difference between removing "God" from a document where it was already written and not adding "God" to something you are writing.

    Are you saying that they were somehow obliged to add "God" to their platform this year?



    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    And if your comment truly explains how the Democrat delegates feel and why they changed it, then why did they change their minds and revert back to the original language mentioning God? Did they decide that they actually don't want to represent the small number of non-religious Americans after all?
    They back-tracked in the face of controversy. They are politicians after all.
    Last edited by mican333; September 5th, 2012 at 05:10 PM.

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    I don't see a margin of error listed in the Pew survey you posted. Typically the margin of error in large national surveys is about 3-4%, from what I've read. I did notice in the Pew survey, that 6% self-identified as "religious unaffiliated." This implies some sort of belief in God, albeit not a member of any particular church, which brings the actual number of theists indicated closer to 89%.
    Also, how are they differentiating between those who actually believe something vs the people who just can't prove God doesn't exist?

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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    The link you posted is from a 2007 poll. Here's one that's a little more current from 2008. These numbers, as far as Americans who believe in God/higher power, have stayed pretty consistent over the decades.

    More Than 90 Percent of Americans Believe in God, Study Finds
    Publication: The Washington Post

    More than 90 percent of Americans -- including one in five people who say they are atheists -- believe in God or a universal power, and more than half pray at least once a day, according to results of a poll released today that takes an in-depth look at Americans' religious beliefs.

    http://www.pewtrusts.org/news_room_detail.aspx?id=40668
    Interesting.... how exactly does an Atheist believe in god? I think this is badly described in a way that is misleading for the purposes you intend. The article linked from the one you links has an Atheist describing that he believes in no god or supernatural beings but that there is a human spirit. Calling that "God" is kind of problematic I think.

    Anyway, good enough for this discussion. And I am fairly sure the survey I noted and the one this article is about are one and the same. Just different parts of the data.
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    Re: Democrats remove the word "God" from party platform. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Interesting.... how exactly does an Atheist believe in god?
    I don't know, it's always been somewhat bewildering to me. But there's a post I made a few months ago on a thread, I don't remember which one, with links to a few surveys and studies that show this to be accurate.
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