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  1. #1
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    ODN's Greatest Replies

    Any short exchange between two members where one or both members said something extrodinary within the exchange. Something you consider intelligent, insightful or humorous. The only three rules are,

    1. Do not intentionally attempt to insult or embarrass anyone with your choice,
    2. Do not post exchanges between more them 2 people, and
    3. You may not post any exchange where you are one of the two posters in the exchange.

    I will post one example now.

    Thread - Jesus and his failure to formulate a useful Golden Rule
    Thread post - #15

    Mindtrap028 - ....the best way to dispel misunderstanding of the bible, is to read it all.

    Apokalupsis - I agree. But it is not something that seemingly, most non-Christians are willing to do (which is all the more reason not to take their criticisms seriously - it is merely willful ignorance). You can't very well criticize something you are not familiar with. Unfortunately, too many people (non-Christian and Christian alike), think that plucking a single verse out of scripture is sufficient to evaluate it....that somehow, context and understanding of that verse through other passages in the Bible are not necessary. Displayed willful ignorance for me, is one of the most frustrating things about debating...too many people actually value willful ignorance as if it is a virtue. Socrates...was right. When was the last time an atheist actually used context in any verse they criticized? I cannot think of a single time it has ever been done here at ODN. And when the necessity of context is brought up, there's always an objection of sorts...apparently, context is extremely important in all things non-Christian...but if we are evaluating anything that has to do with Christianity (or religion), the rule is to throw context out the window. This to me, is a sign of either blatant prejudice or some sort of mental deficiency (by those who do it). And in either regard, I'm not entirely convinced that such people can be reasoned with.
    All I can say is wow! This post took frustration, courage, and restraint at the same time. When you consider too that the post is by (one of?) the board's owner(s), it is all the more impressive. His thoughts were spot on. Awesome exchange.


    Ethan
    Thinking is NOT an automatic process

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  3. #2
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    You could simply rename the thread, "Stuff Zhav said."

  4. Likes Lukecash12, Rodriguez, Dionysus liked this post
  5. #3
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    LOL, it would have been great if you had actually posted some of that "stuff" Z.

    Here is another,

    Thread: Many atheists are deeply preoccupied with a Being they believe not to exist.
    Thread post: #84


    Originally Posted by Sigfried - I'd also further say that while not exclusively so, that Atheism draws people with a lot of self confidence and Theism draws people with low self confidence. With self confidence comes a measure of ego and a feeling of superiority over others (if not everyone than at least the hoy paloy) Again, its not exclusive, plenty of Theists have loads of self confidence and I've known plenty of insecure Atheists, but its something I've observed as a trend and it rings true with me personally. I;m an Atheist and sport what I'd call a pretty hefty ego. Anyhow that would lead Atheists to be less humble in their proclamations.

    Mr. Hyde - In my experience I can't really say it's been the same or even similar. Most of the theists I know are brimming with confidence. Most of the atheists I know, what few I know personally, tend to also be confident. The only noticeable difference is that most of the believers I know are more humble and peaceable. The few atheists I know are topped with pride and short tempered. But I'm pretty sure that's just from our regional differences (yours and mine) and the kinds of people we run into or have run into in our lives.
    This was a post that caused me to see Sig in a new light. His astute awareness (and admittal) that he has a pretty hefty ego, and his objective conclusion that Atheists tend to be less humble in their proclamations were things I would not have guessed he would be aware of or openly admit to. It was a clear headed and candid post. Respect.


    Ethan
    Thinking is NOT an automatic process

  6. #4
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by ethan View Post
    LOL, it would have been great if you had actually posted some of that "stuff" Z.
    'twould contravene the rules set out in the OP, sadly.

    I'm really tempted to post a great one-liner I gave on a different, atheist debate forum...but I can't.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  7. #5
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    You can do so in an "unofficial" capacity here Clive.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




  8. #6
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Okay, here goes.

    Atheist Guy: "Clive, I get it. You're an intelligent prick. I apologize that being an atheist does not require of someone to be an intelligent prick."
    Me: "You're right. It doesn't require intelligence."
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  9. #7
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Christian humor is a lot like Christian rock'n'roll. I mean, don't get me wrong, I really respect how hard you guys try, but ...

  10. #8
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by ethan View Post
    Thread - Jesus and his failure to formulate a useful Golden Rule
    Thread post - #15

    All I can say is wow! This post took frustration, courage, and restraint at the same time. When you consider too that the post is by (one of?) the board's owner(s), it is all the more impressive. His thoughts were spot on. Awesome exchange.
    While I do appreciate recognition, I don't think the posted example is anything special. It's more of a rant than formal rebuttal. And as a response, it is probably only appreciated by theists (thus, speaking to the choir).
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




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  12. #9
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodriguez View Post
    Christian humor is a lot like Christian rock'n'roll. I mean, don't get me wrong, I really respect how hard you guys try, but ...
    Tim [<-- funny link] Hawkins [<-- funny link]. That is all [<-- funny link].
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  13. #10
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    While I do appreciate recognition, I don't think the posted example is anything special. It's more of a rant than formal rebuttal. And as a response, it is probably only appreciated by theists (thus, speaking to the choir).


    That was awfully fair of you.

    I'm an atheist, personally. It's a sad, state, imo, to see "atheism" and "theism" at such divides. It's not as though either is less inclined to love his family or fear the worst or any of the rest of the eminently human stuff.

    The Bible... Ah, it's a tricky book. It's a good read, though. I have a tendency to quote it (nothing like a good, pithy line; the Christ was good for those, though I don't mean to minimize any of His other accomplishments).

    Anyway, while you appreciate the recognition, I appreciate the humility. Cheers to you and yours.

  14. #11
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Mord, thanks for the kind words.

    As far as the "division," I think that only exists on boards like these where the division is natural. They are 2 diametrically opposing worldviews, much like political conservatism vs liberalism.

    We did at one time have a forum category called "Socrates Cafe," based on the popular live discussion format (and one I used to facilitate). But most people here just weren't aware of the different format and it was only used by a small minority since that format really isn't about debate, bur rather an exploratory evaluation of ideas. That is, rarely was any truth proposition asserted, instead, basic ideas and beliefs were challenged by questions and alternative possibilities. Those types of discussions are much more fun (for me at this time anyway), but it takes a while to get used to and most members have a difficult time making that transition from the debate mindset to the exploratory.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




  15. #12
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    I had the good fortune to be in the presence of Nelson Mandela once. And to my amazment, he genuienly did not think he was a great person and was embarrassed by the attention. Since then, I have found, to a man, (and woman), every extraordinary person I've met has thought of themselves as ordinary. Apok, of course you would think that was nothing to be proud about, but I find that is part of the reason it speaks well of you.

    Anyway, the goal is to post exchanges that appeal to the poster, be the exchange christian, atheist or non. Doesn't matter. We are looking for opinions here. Opinions cannot be wrong.

    Here is another one between Gherkin and Ibelsd in the thread - International Affairs >> Transparency vs Secrecy

    You simply must read the entire exchange to get the full amazingness of it. One would think Gherkin's position is untenable, but he holds his own.

    Gherkin - I agree my position is confusing. Ill do my best to explain quickly: I have a political opinion between libertarianism and pacifist anarchism - leaning ever more toward anarchist. I believe that the most important issue in politics and morality is the use of force (hopefully lack thereof). Libertarians tend to view force as defense only, and (pacifist) anarchists and (some) theologians would take a no force stance. I am in between, and can find self defense justified, yet total lack of force preferable, and the standard to work toward. I believe our founders were brilliant deconstructionist libertarians, who understood the nature of government and peoples - and created the best government ever when they theorized the constitution. However it is far from perfect, and the philosopher statesmen we had in the past have been pushed out of politics by money and power, and we are left with a corrupt state in which the people are the subjects of the government to an increasing degree - instead of the government being the servant of the people, who have natural rights (whereas states only have given rights).

    If we had what our founders intended, I would support it (with slavery fixed, ofc). I do not agree with how the 14th amendment makes corporations people, I would eliminate the 16th and 17th. If I were constructing it myself, I would change a lot, and restrict government far more than even the founders. Furthermore, I think there needs to be an opt-in to any social contract, just like the constitution had to be unanimous originally. Anyone who doesn't want to be a part shouldn't have to.

    Ibelsd - Your argument is confusing because it is illogical. Force is always an issue. The question is how it is sanctioned and regulated. In your anarchist system, how is force regulated? Who gets to use force? What happens to those who choose to use force? You cannot answer these very basic questions while proposing any sort of anarchic system. You will ALWAYS return to might makes right. The individual will always find himself outnumbered and resort to joining a group. The group will always resort to rules. The rules will always maintain force either to defend or conquer. Groups who defer the use of force will either perish or employ groups who will use force. Ultimately groups which are the most forceful will find themselves in a position to oppress others. So, the U.S. is an experiment where power resides with the people. They form the laws. The elect the leaders of the group. They reserve certain liberties for the individual. Is it flawed? Sure. We have veered from the founder's original vision. Yet, in the end, we get the government we deserve. You included. You can hide and act self-righteous. In my eyes (if your self-biography is true), you're just a quitter. All this garbage about oppression and slavery... just rationalizations to help you accept the fact you quit.

    G - I haven't quit at all! I am working right now to build my dream of a hermitage. In fact, what do you mean "quit"? Do you mean I don't support this society? Damn right - but it's extra hard to do that, not easier.

    I - I guess brilliant is in the eye of the beholder. Hey, look, I was all into anarchy too at one time. Then, I got my driver's license and began to grow up.
    This snippet doesn't do the exchange justice. What added greatness was the realization that Gherkin really believed his position. He wasn't just riffing. You could see that he had thought it out. And of course Ibelsd was...... Ibelsd. Loved it.





    ---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

    Atheist Guy: "Clive, I get it. You're an intelligent prick. I apologize that being an atheist does not require of someone to be an intelligent prick."
    Me: "You're right. It doesn't require intelligence."
    He left himself wide open for that one.


    Ethan
    Thinking is NOT an automatic process

  16. #13
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by ethan View Post
    Since then, I have found, to a man, (and woman), every extraordinary person I've met has thought of themselves as ordinary.


    Video speaks for itself.

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  18. #14
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Just reminds me:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




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  20. #15
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Ethan - Since then, I have found, to a man, (and woman), every extraordinary person I've met has thought of themselves as ordinary.
    I know some will disagree, but the definition of "greatness" I used does not include throwing a ball around or amassing millions for doing so. I was referring to something pertaining to morality and integrety.

    Ethan
    Thinking is NOT an automatic process

  21. #16
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    I always thought of humility as an important part of integrity.

  22. #17
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecai View Post
    I always thought of humility as an important part of integrity.
    Not sure if it is an important part of integrity. However, I tend to think that humility is seriously over-valued. If you are truly great at something...if you are truly better than someone else at something, I see no value in pretending that you are not. Humility is for the weak.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  23. #18
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Not sure if it is an important part of integrity. However, I tend to think that humility is seriously over-valued. If you are truly great at something...if you are truly better than someone else at something, I see no value in pretending that you are not. Humility is for the weak.


    Well, there certainly could be value in hiding ones real abilities. That's very circumstantial, though.

    I don't think humility consists of pretense. To be humble in victory is not to pretend that you didn't win. Perhaps being humble is simply "not being arrogant." Perhaps it's the ability to recognize that being "better than someone else at something" is often less important than we think.

    Whatever the case, the term "false humility" has meaning. "False" isn't redundant in that context.

  24. #19
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Not sure if it is an important part of integrity. However, I tend to think that humility is seriously over-valued. If you are truly great at something...if you are truly better than someone else at something, I see no value in pretending that you are not. Humility is for the weak.
    Matthew 5:3

    Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

    I find it strange that a fellow Christian might be contradicting the beatitudes, no offense intended. Is God weak?
    There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
    Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib

  25. #20
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    Re: ODN's Greatest Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Not sure if it is an important part of integrity. However, I tend to think that humility is seriously over-valued. If you are truly great at something...if you are truly better than someone else at something, I see no value in pretending that you are not. Humility is for the weak.
    I don't think it's so much about pretending. When humans do great and extraordinary things who have a strong faith and knowing of the presence of God in their life, humility can often be one's inner acknowledgement of the transparency/transcendent process between Spirit and matter and from whence all true goodness and greatness arises that often exceeds mortal, temporal existence.

    Sure, we can choose to take only personal credit for great accomplishments, but we may want to consider that there are more fulfilling, transformational options.

    "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." John 5:17
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