Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 117

Thread: Newtown

  1. #1
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Newtown

    I have seen some info online that crisis actors may have been used for media involving newtown.

    Just to question mainstream reality... Is it possible for a government to stage a mass killing event for political purpose, and get away with it in modern times? If a government actually was evil enough to perform the act wouldn't anyone to question these events be demonized and blackballed? They could probably get away with it.

    I do not know what happened but this information is on the web. So I am posting it into the conspiracy section.

  2. #2
    Banned Indefinitely

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    I have seen some info online that crisis actors may have been used for media involving newtown.

    Just to question mainstream reality... Is it possible for a government to stage a mass killing event for political purpose, and get away with it in modern times? If a government actually was evil enough to perform the act wouldn't anyone to question these events be demonized and blackballed? They could probably get away with it.

    I do not know what happened but this information is on the web. So I am posting it into the conspiracy section.
    Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

    Conspiracies bother me for because of this precept. Conspiracy believers tend to create elaborate stories, usually with little to no credible evidence, to satisfy a need to explain the nearly unexplainable.

    To answer your question: "Is it possible for a government to stage a mass killing event for political purpose?" - Yes it is possible, however, very very very very unlikely.

    The second part: "and get away with it in modern times?" - again, possible, but highly unlikely.

    The government had nothing to do with the Newtown shooting, expect maybe that it allowed a crazed lunatic access to guns.

  3. #3
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Posts
    7,426
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Crisis actors? Not sure what that is.

    At any rate it sounds like the usual attention getting ********. Come up with a nice conspiracy that makes for a intriguing notion, provide no evidence and a lot of innuendo, and then ride the gravy train of media attention and web hits.

    When he has solid evidence, then take it seriously, but its a very far fetched scenario where its hard to see anyone gaining anything from it.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  4. #4
    Banned Indefinitely

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Crisis actors? Not sure what that is.

    At any rate it sounds like the usual attention getting ********. Come up with a nice conspiracy that makes for a intriguing notion, provide no evidence and a lot of innuendo, and then ride the gravy train of media attention and web hits.

    When he has solid evidence, then take it seriously, but its a very far fetched scenario where its hard to see anyone gaining anything from it.
    I heard a theory that the Israeli CIA had orchestrated the Newtown shooting.

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Here is a link to all the Newtown conspiracy theories debunked: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...heories/60126/.

    How about it being a conspiracy of the NRA and the gun industry trying to sell more guns? Have you seen gun sales shoot up after the incident? Have you seen all the right-wing propaganda about Obama taking guns away and how Wall Mart clears out of guns & ammo when he wins? Why wouldn't the gun industry turn a young man crazy enough to kill his mother and a bunch of school kids to boost profits?

    The good thing about this conspiracy is that the motive is clear: profits. As to your conspiracy theory: what does the government hope to gain from this?

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    JimJones said "Here is a link to all the Newtown conspiracy theories debunked: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...heories/60126/.
    Thats a nice opinion article unfortunately it doesn't prove or debunk anything.

    ---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

    So I have been trolling the web a bit for some explanation of these conspiracy theories, and or questions. It seems that some people have been attacked by mainstream media for questioning the official state version of events.

    One such person is Professor James Tracey. He has been attacked heavily by CNN's Anderson Cooper and other mainstream outlets for questioning the official story. He was recently interviewed on the Alex Jones show http://www.infowars.com/video-were-c...hook-massacre/

    He asked the question if crisis actors were being used. There are also a few other questions he had regarding the possibility of there being more than one shooter. Supposedly there was 2 men found in the woods near the school, and one was armed. Many other inconsistencies are also being questioned similar to other mass media events like 9-11.

    I would warn others to be careful to brush off these questions as bull as sigfreid did. But I would also be the first to warn that there is plenty of disinformation being spread around out there. I dont trust mainstream media which is known to take part in cover ups and outright lie to the american people. So if there is evidence that the official story is wrong I will listen. If the official story is true and accurate it would be very easy to prove this.

    The very fact that media attacks a professor for simply asking questions related to inconsistencies he noticed makes me suspicious. As I posted in the OP blackballing, and demonizing people is a tactic used by those who seek to hide truth by discrediting those who ask questions.

    ---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 PM ----------

    Here is the youtube video that has gone viral http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d516t...ctr=1358988518

    ---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

    I would definately suggest watching the youtube video.

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Here is the facebook of Robbie Parker the father of one of the victims at sandy hook. He was caught on camera laughing, and smiling before giving a live interview. I would have to agree what he did was very awkward. Although I wouldn't do what many people are doing and start spamming his FB page with insults, and condemning him. Obviously many people are absolutely convinced Sandy Hook was a hoax. This whole story is getting very disturbing, and the fact the media isn't covering people hurling insults at a victim who allegedly lost his daughter in a mass shooting is even more disturbing.

    https://www.facebook.com/RobbieParkerCompassion

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Thats a nice opinion article unfortunately it doesn't prove or debunk anything.
    Let me guess; do you also believe that we did not land on the moon and that 9/11 was a conspiracy and WTC7 brought down deliberately and that the world is run by alien lizards? Oh, and that vaccines are harmful and Benghazi was a conspiracy and Clinton's testimony today was staged! All the points you have raised have been debunked. And nothing you mention proposes why the government would go through so much trouble to false flag, stage, or invent this story.
    Last edited by Squatch347; January 24th, 2013 at 05:22 AM. Reason: Hashtag

  9. #9
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Let me guess; do you also believe that we did not land on the moon and that 9/11 was a conspiracy and WTC7 brought down deliberately and that the world is run by alien lizards? Oh, and that vaccines are harmful and Benghazi was a conspiracy and Clinton's testimony today was staged! All the points you have raised have been debunked. And nothing you mention proposes why the government would go through so much trouble to false flag, stage, or invent this story.
    Very interesting rant you had there. Very mainstream media. Your statement is designed to promote ignorance, and to accept all state versions of history as fact without question.

    Let me clear things up for you. We did land on the moon, 9-11 is a conspiracy, there are no alien lizards, Vaccines are proven to be harmful and they contained mercury up until 2001 and they still contain mercury in multi shot vials, Benghazi is also a conspiracy which the state intentionally lied to the america people about, Clintons testimony today was nice talking points.

    ---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 PM ----------

    Now as to answer why the government would commit false flag attacks? I honestly dont know why they would. Especially in the information technological age we are living in. Why would they give guns to mexican cartels? That doesn't make any sense either but thats now commonly known as fact.

    Maybe the government is filled with a bunch of idiots? I mean they aren't going to get away with any of this covert crap they are trying to pull. Wiki leaks is a testament to this.

    I think government needs to realize they better start straightening up and come out of the dark ages because they will not get away with any of this crap. Majority of people don't trust government or mainstream media for good reasons. Change is coming and it is not the change Obama is talking about.

    If the government wants the support of its people the government better stop lying to them.

  10. #10
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Very interesting rant you had there. Very mainstream media. Your statement is designed to promote ignorance, and to accept all state versions of history as fact without question.

    Let me clear things up for you. We did land on the moon, 9-11 is a conspiracy, there are no alien lizards, Vaccines are proven to be harmful and they contained mercury up until 2001 and they still contain mercury in multi shot vials, Benghazi is also a conspiracy which the state intentionally lied to the america people about, Clintons testimony today was nice talking points
    Not really a rant - I just wanted to see where you sat on the conspiracy spectrum. Each of these would require a separate thread but you're scoring about 90% on the conspiracy-minded scale.

    Now as to answer why the government would commit false flag attacks? I honestly dont know why they would. Especially in the information technological age we are living in. Why would they give guns to mexican cartels? That doesn't make any sense either but thats now commonly known as fact.
    Well, the usual reason to commit a false flag attack is to rally the country against a certain enemy. So what enemy was Newton supposed to be the target?

    Maybe the government is filled with a bunch of idiots? I mean they aren't going to get away with any of this covert crap they are trying to pull. Wiki leaks is a testament to this.
    Really? That's what you truly believe? That the FBI, the CIA, the highest level of government are idiotic people? These are highly educated people with years of experience to get to the levels of power they are at. They may well be greedy, selfish, self-promoting and power hungry but stupid they are not.

    I think government needs to realize they better start straightening up and come out of the dark ages because they will not get away with any of this crap. Majority of people don't trust government or mainstream media for good reasons. Change is coming and it is not the change Obama is talking about.
    You left out the bit about a revolution is about to start. Lol, you guys are just hilarious.

    If the government wants the support of its people the government better stop lying to them.
    Of course government lies - there are secrets and deals and face saving gestures and all manner of mis-directions. We will never know the true story of everything that happens with government.

  11. #11
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Really? That's what you truly believe? That the FBI, the CIA, the highest level of government are idiotic people? These are highly educated people with years of experience to get to the levels of power they are at. They may well be greedy, selfish, self-promoting and power hungry but stupid they are not.
    Yea look at the last guy running for president. Making it to high levels of government positions has nothing to do with intelligence. If I was in government we would not get busted for giving guns to cartels. One cause first of all it wouldn't happen. Second if I did do it we sure as hell wouldn't get caught!

    Now Im going to point out that you are taking us extremely off topic. So I would suggest taking a look at the newtown information that I posted and giving me your opinion on that.

  12. #12
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    So I would suggest taking a look at the newtown information that I posted and giving me your opinion on that.
    My link answered your questions. For example, the man running was an off-duty policeman running for help. There were others but it seems that you didn't read my link.

  13. #13
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    My link answered your questions. For example, the man running was an off-duty policeman running for help. There were others but it seems that you didn't read my link.
    I read your link it was one page, and didn't cover any of the questions I have actually. Maybe you should take a look at the youtube video. The questions I have are regarding the inconsistencies, the crisis actors, the photos of the supposed girl that died with obama, the lack of emotion of the victims, the father that was laughing before a interview then suddenly changed to sad for a interview not realizing it was a live feed. The FB pages and other websites created before the event took place etc etc.

  14. #14
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    I read your link it was one page, and didn't cover any of the questions I have actually. Maybe you should take a look at the youtube video. The questions I have are regarding the inconsistencies, the crisis actors, the photos of the supposed girl that died with obama, the lack of emotion of the victims, the father that was laughing before a interview then suddenly changed to sad for a interview not realizing it was a live feed. The FB pages and other websites created before the event took place etc etc.
    Crisis Actors: explain in words - videos aren't really great ways to discuss anything because there's no real way to reference them.

    Girl: This was the girl's sister! Siblings look the same because they are from the same parents! They are also known to share clothes!

    Emotion: This is not unusual - it's called shock

    Laughing Father: Again, not unusual - I distinctly remember making jokes with my brother at our father's funeral.

    Websites: It's the internet - dates are wrong all the time, there's a link in the reference below that shows google dating Fox New's reference of the shooting to 1983 (link)

    Anyway, Salon has a much better point by point debunking of all your points here. I don't want to copy and paste an entire article but you can point out flaws in their reasoning that will be great.

    Snopes also labels the video as false.

    So if you have any concerns please list them. Otherwise, it will be hard to discuss anything unless we are both aware of each other's position.

  15. Likes Squatch347 liked this post
  16. #15
    Registered User

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    381
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Michael, people died. Many people, including many children. This simply could not possibly have been a hoax by the government. Even with this ridiculous notion of "crisis actors" (you know, people act very strangely when in grief- they laugh, cry, and have a rollercoaster of emotion. there's no standard to grief), your theory does not account for how on earth the "government" would go about persuading one mentally ill person to kill his mother, take her guns, and shoot up an elementary school. The "2-man" thing is known to be false- that was just a bit of extremely early media error that quickly changed once the facts came in.

    It's just too ridiculous of a theory to be plausible. Why go to such great lengths to try to prove it was a hoax? Just leave it, there's nothing here.
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something."-Plato

  17. #16
    Banned Indefinitely

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Here is the facebook of Robbie Parker the father of one of the victims at sandy hook. He was caught on camera laughing, and smiling before giving a live interview. I would have to agree what he did was very awkward. Although I wouldn't do what many people are doing and start spamming his FB page with insults, and condemning him. Obviously many people are absolutely convinced Sandy Hook was a hoax. This whole story is getting very disturbing, and the fact the media isn't covering people hurling insults at a victim who allegedly lost his daughter in a mass shooting is even more disturbing.

    https://www.facebook.com/RobbieParkerCompassion
    So is this meant to prove some "the government, or some new world order" conspiracy theory?

    I will never condemn someone for dealing with grief in their own way

    ---------- Post added at 06:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Very interesting rant you had there. Very mainstream media. Your statement is designed to promote ignorance, and to accept all state versions of history as fact without question.

    Let me clear things up for you. We did land on the moon, 9-11 is a conspiracy, there are no alien lizards, Vaccines are proven to be harmful and they contained mercury up until 2001 and they still contain mercury in multi shot vials, Benghazi is also a conspiracy which the state intentionally lied to the america people about, Clintons testimony today was nice talking points.

    ---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 PM ----------

    Now as to answer why the government would commit false flag attacks? I honestly dont know why they would. Especially in the information technological age we are living in. Why would they give guns to mexican cartels? That doesn't make any sense either but thats now commonly known as fact.

    Maybe the government is filled with a bunch of idiots? I mean they aren't going to get away with any of this covert crap they are trying to pull. Wiki leaks is a testament to this.

    I think government needs to realize they better start straightening up and come out of the dark ages because they will not get away with any of this crap. Majority of people don't trust government or mainstream media for good reasons. Change is coming and it is not the change Obama is talking about.

    If the government wants the support of its people the government better stop lying to them.
    So let's say all things you have said are proven, generally accepted fact. What the hell does it matter?

    The people are the government in the US, for better or for worse. We elect the government, we fund the government. Not trusting the government, is equal to not trusting the American populace.

    Does it matter if 9-11 was a conspiracy? Ten years later, does it really matter?

    Benghazi? Does it really matter? You can't go back and change it. And since war is a generally acceptable human behavior, it would be extremely hard to prosecute anyone.

    I like the lame-stream media as much as the next guy, but I can assure you that I'm not watching Glenn Beck for intellectual stimulation. If you don't trust the media, then simply don't watch, or read, or listen. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to watch ABC World News every-night. If you trust the government's info, then listen to it in the first. Truth is best found on one's own. Truth is only truth if you believe that the truth is true.

  18. #17
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    It's just too ridiculous of a theory to be plausible. Why go to such great lengths to try to prove it was a hoax? Just leave it, there's nothing here.
    I understand your point of view. The problem is we have to look a this now very carefully. I'm not saying that I think it is or is not a hoax. But many people are, and they are harassing a supposedly grieving father, and other newtown victims.

    So If its not a hoax we should be able to figure that out easily. If its not a hoax then we will show people that its not. Now unfortunately in todays society a large part of the population doesn't trust government or media so every event like this in the future must be carefully looked at and investigated.

    You may ask why>? Why must government be investigated? Because history tells us government has done it before, and if it happened before it can happen again.

  19. #18
    Registered User

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    381
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    Michael, there's a difference between accountability and paranoia. Why not just look for the details about every event as they arise, without immediately speculating they were massive hoaxes perpetrated by the government using X in order to achieve Y? Making up a crazy theory just implies a starting bias towards wanting to believe the government did it.

    The rational position is just to look at the facts, which are easily available, and conclude that a crazy guy shot up an elementary school. Now, if there were many suspicious aspects of the event, then one could conclude something else, but there are not. Investigation goes Facts->Conclusions, not Conclusions->"Facts" manipulated to back up crazy conclusions.
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something."-Plato

  20. #19
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    This is a screenshot of one of the fundraisers set up on dec 10. I followed up on the webpage to find it had been changed to the 20th. I also found it odd that a newtown fundraiser was created on the 14th for newtown victims the same day the event took place. If you click the link it says the event took place on the 15th. Just another strange coincidence I suppose.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	youcaring-sandy-hook-fundraiser.png 
Views:	58 
Size:	154.8 KB 
ID:	3360

    Heres the link to the page http://www.youcaring.com/blog/archive.aspx

  21. #20
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    193
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Newtown

    I'm done with this for now. Maybe so many people want to believe its a hoax because reality is far worse that 20 children were gunned down by a psycho. Even if it really was a hoax I dont understand how people with no evidence can harass alleged victims. Its one thing to ask questions but quite another to jump to conclusions.

    Just look at the ignorance and spam on Robbie Parkers FB page.

    Gene Rosen is also being harassed. the man that found 6 sandy hook kids in his front yard.
    http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/this...rassed_for_it/

    I honestly find it hard to believe that the media doesn't cover this harassment, and that makes me suspicious. I guess we will see what happens.

 

 
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Was God in Newtown?
    By Rodriguez in forum Formal Discussion
    Replies: 84
    Last Post: January 29th, 2013, 03:02 PM
  2. Was God in Newtown?
    By Rodriguez in forum Religion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 19th, 2012, 12:34 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •