Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    holykhw
    Guest

    Men and women are not equal.

    MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT EQUAL. Modern people are so caught up with “victim mentality” that they feel discriminated when they are not acknowledged the same way as the other were. Equality of men and women is such case. Yes, it is true that many women were discriminated and experienced additional adversities because of maltreatment as human beings over the past years. As a result, many feminist movements arose as we see in our history. However, the question is this: Did women really acquire better lives and families through so-called “equality”?

    The truth is that we cannot boldly ascertain that our lives and homes are so happy because women became equal and have the same opportunity as men. There are many working women in our society. Women do not marry to enjoy their career and temporal relationships. Mothers neglect their children and do not give enough care and love because they have to earn money for their children. Also between husband and wife, they both have to struggle with extra stress from outside work. They fight over their salary. They start to divide up the house work, bills, and responsibilities over their children. Home is no more a place of love, peace, and encouragement for anyone of the family.

    Trying to have equal opportunity as others is not so good idea. If men and women should be equal, then why don’t men give birth or why don’t women go to military more than men do? We must admit that men and women are not equal! What modern society thinks of equality is more like uniformity: cutting tall people’s legs and stretching short people’s legs to make everyone EQUAL. Do you really want to be equal? Do you really want to be the same? Stop and think about it for a moment. Yes! We are all different! What a disaster will happen when we try to make all different people with same face, height, weight, language, and thought? We should admit and be thankful that we are so different.

  2. #2
    hansolyu
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    are you happy that you are a woman?

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Hi, I don't understand what you are saying, equality is something that should available to everyone no matter their sex or race. You ask if women are better off since equality was brought into law, are you saying that they were better off before?

  4. #4
    bravogenie
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    I thought you are comparing men and women by their rights as an individual...why are you suddenly trying to prove that men and women are not equal by physical sense?

  5. #5
    holykhw
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    No, by rights everyone is CREATED equal, but doesn't mean that everyone IS equal. And when we look around, we can easily see that we are not equal even by simply looking at our appearances, characteristics, and culture. But what modern people think is that if men do something women have to do the same. But that's not the equality that the constitution was talking about at the same place. Constitution stated that everyone was from one God and created by Him, thus believing his or her most fundamental right--being a human with an inalienable rights.

    ---------- Post added at 05:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 AM ----------

    Hi, thanks for reply
    What I am talking about is that people have a misconception of the term equality. Of course everyone holds rights because all were created equal. Then the question is will people have to have a law defending themselves to prove that they are individuals or right-holders? Women were humans and were created equal as men before and after the law specifically said so. But what people think of equality is more like an uniformity as I mentioned above. It is more like "if you work, take care of babies, go shopping, cook, go to military, etc, then I must also because we are equal." And that mentality just destructed everyone's different uniqueness and talents and brought everyone into same level and unnecessary competitions and struggles, even among families! People started to expect the same thing from others when they are all different and their measure of ability and talent is all different. No wonder why people are so unsatisfied and unhappy. Isn't it?

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    73
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    I'm not entirely certain that I agree with you about the general consensus for the definition of equality. I think most people realize that equality doesn't mean you HAVE to do everything the same. It means you have the opportunity to do the same things if you choose too.

    Does a woman HAVE to stay home and only care for the house and children? Of course not, she can work if she chooses too. And if she chooses too, she should be afforded a comparable salary based on skills and not on gender. That's what equality is for. To provide the same opportunity, not uniformity.

    When women were given the right to vote, they weren't required too vote, they simply have the opportunity to vote if they choose to.

    Your argument is similar to the argument made by Kurt Vonnegut in his satire Harrison Bergeron. And the counterpoint to his position is the same that I have stated above. Equality in the law should provide for equal opportunity, not force us all to live exactly the same way.

  7. #7
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,483
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Men and women deserve equal opportunity. However, they are not equal. Not being physically equal is an obvious example. Equality is something that is misunderstood and erroneously applied. Normally as a means of division for political gain.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  8. Thanks Sigfried thanked for this post
    Likes libre liked this post
  9. #8
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    West / East Coast
    Posts
    3,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by holykhw View Post
    Did women really acquire better lives and families through so-called “equality”?
    I don't think the process of change for women was so much about women acquiring better lives. The fundamental challenge was more about women being given the same opportunity as men. And then, from that opportunity they could obtain a better life or not. That becomes their choice, but the opportunity is now there.

    Trying to have equal opportunity as others is not so good idea. If men and women should be equal,
    Equal opportunity does not mean women are equal to men and thank God for that. It simply means that Katherine, for example, has the same opportunity as Joseph in, let's say, getting a job done. If Katherine does a better job, working more efficiently and creatively then Joseph, so be it, she gets a bonus. If Joseph gets the job done better and more efficiently, then Joseph gets a bonus. Or they can both get a bonus for doing a terrific job in their own way. They are not equal for obvious biological reasons. Their skill level, experience, and backgrounds are very different. Equal opportunity does not mean Katherine is equal to Joseph. It means theyboth have the same opportunity at getting the job done, or the college course work completed, or whatever. Without opportunity life can be very controlled.

    For a very long time women didn't have the same opportunity at getting a job done, let alone a good education and receiving a bonus. That's changed in America. But it hasn't yet changed in all cultures.
    Last edited by eye4magic; February 26th, 2013 at 04:51 PM.
    "The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” --"The Mental Universe” | Nature
    [Eye4magic]
    Super Moderator

  10. #9
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by holykhw View Post
    MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT EQUAL. Modern people are so caught up with “victim mentality” that they feel discriminated when they are not acknowledged the same way as the other were. Equality of men and women is such case. Yes, it is true that many women were discriminated and experienced additional adversities because of maltreatment as human beings over the past years. As a result, many feminist movements arose as we see in our history. However, the question is this: Did women really acquire better lives and families through so-called “equality”?
    Overall, yes. Before "equality" women were more frequently robbed of the ability to make their own choices as in they had to do what men told them to do. They had fewer opportunities to make their own decisions about their lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by holykhw View Post
    The truth is that we cannot boldly ascertain that our lives and homes are so happy because women became equal and have the same opportunity as men.
    Yes we can. Given that people are better off when they have control over their lives, we can ascertain that women are happier with increased opportunity.


    Quote Originally Posted by holykhw View Post
    There are many working women in our society. Women do not marry to enjoy their career and temporal relationships. Mothers neglect their children and do not give enough care and love because they have to earn money for their children.
    And you're saying it would be better if they did not have the opportunity to earn money to feed their children?


    Quote Originally Posted by holykhw View Post
    Also between husband and wife, they both have to struggle with extra stress from outside work. They fight over their salary. They start to divide up the house work, bills, and responsibilities over their children. Home is no more a place of love, peace, and encouragement for anyone of the family.
    That really makes no sense. Salaries, bills, house work, etc. are going to be an issue regardless of how "equal" women are.


    Quote Originally Posted by holykhw View Post
    If men and women should be equal, then why don’t men give birth or why don’t women go to military more than men do? We must admit that men and women are not equal!
    What modern society thinks of equality is more like uniformity: cutting tall people’s legs and stretching short people’s legs to make everyone EQUAL. Do you really want to be equal? Do you really want to be the same? Stop and think about it for a moment. Yes! We are all different! What a disaster will happen when we try to make all different people with same face, height, weight, language, and thought? We should admit and be thankful that we are so different.
    There is a difference between "equal" and "the same".

    A person should have every reasonable opportunity to do what he or she wants with his/her life and to deny someone that kind of equality is wrong. If a woman wants to do anything that men typically do and is capable of doing it, then she should be allowed to do it unless there is a very specific reason to disallow it. And the same goes for men.

    It is not suggested in our society that everyone be made the same - just that everyone should have the same opportunities as much as possible and that is a good thing. If you are going to deny someone an opportunity based on gender, you better have a good reason.

  11. #10
    aaabbb
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Of course man and woman are different.

  12. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    10
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    I totally agree with you holykhw. Modern people are brainwashed with the mindset of victims. They consider themselves pitiful
    But in the real world no one cares about you except ur family.

  13. #12
    chasethedawn
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Why would women even want to be equal with men? It makes no sense. Only men are drafted to the war in times of need. Why would women (especially those who've never fought in their lives) want to get themselves killed because of equality. Men and women's roles are both equally important. If women wanted to be like men, who would do the what only women are capable of?

  14. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Lol. In an equal world women would be as capable to fulfill a draft as men! #felttheneedtopointthatout

  15. #14
    holykhw
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    I do not undermine the opportunity that is given to both women and men. They all have the opportunity and should use best out of it. What I am mostly concerned is that to have opportunity to build up their self-esteem and career through working is valued more than people's own family and happiness.

    And with equal opportunity, they have an amount of pressure that they must do something better in their lives, and many times it misleads to pursue goals "just to follow up others" cause they feel they are like losers if they don't.

    What I saw is that women and men struggle and follow one another's role because they want to be justified and proved.

    I am not denying equal opportunity but the people's wrong acceptance and application of that opportunity that make life unnecessary tiring and unhappy.

    ---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------

    (chasethedawn) Yeah... EXACTLY. Women have their own roles, and men have their own roles, which cannot be interchangeable with those of one another. People have a general misconception that equality is fitting into every possible role that human beings have regardless of gender.

  16. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    And with equal opportunity, they have an amount of pressure that they must do something better in their lives, and many times it misleads to pursue goals "just to follow up others" cause they feel they are like losers if they don't.

    And how is this any different to humankind at large, male or female?

    What I saw is that women and men struggle and follow one another's role because they want to be justified and proved.


    this has nothing to do with equality laws, the struggle society places on people is a valid point but a separate debate.



  17. #16
    soumyadev
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    considering the above statement ,i would like to pretty much point out that ,if we are considering equality in terms of status in this society.. then i wud disagree with the fact dat they are not equal...speaking again of which has remindede me that both genders deserve no less than each other.we r humans above all gender biasing...men and women are distringuished by our biological anatomy,...this makes the point clear that any human,..man or a woman has equal rights, any religion (considering any) has always placed both of them at equal platform..barring a few(exceptions)...!! none the less my point is dat even the word woman has man in it...so ...concluding i wud pretty much state that though not same in body, working capacity,etc, we r humans and equal....equalit knows no bounds of sex,race,gender,religion.....

  18. #17
    Senior Mod

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,289
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    I think that there is some confusion here because of ambiguity in the term "equality" that's being used here.

    What I have gathered as the primary thrust of the OP (and subsequent posts) is that men and women have separate spheres of competence into which the majority of each sex will naturally fall. Men are naturally inclined to be more aggressive, more competitive, more adventurous, and physically stronger. As such, they will naturally fall into roles that capitalize on these traits: warriors, athletes, explorers, hostile takeovers, etc. Women tend to be more cooperative, empathic, practical, and intuitive. As such, many women will tend to be naturally inclined toward roles that focus on these things: nurturing children, building and maintaining social networks, logistics, and counseling or service-oriented jobs. Of course there are exceptions to any rule, but by and large, men and women tend to have competencies that put them into roles more similar to other masculine or feminine archetypes, respectively. Some may argue that one sphere is more important than the other, but I would invite any masculinist to try teaching elementary school or any feminist to go to battle. There may be some that will excel at these tasks... but the majority of people will not do as well in these tasks which are more appropriately suited to someone of the opposite sex. Neither can really function without the other for very long and still hope to maintain the same level of excellence as they could with each group working in their favored areas of naturally inclined competence.

    That's not to say that some particularly physically gifted woman shouldn't be able to make a living doing hard physical labor if she wants to and is able to keep up with the men she works with, or that a particularly empathic man shouldn't be perfectly accepted and validated for a choice to be "Mr. Mom" or teach kindergarten or run the local PTA, as long as he can keep all the social threads straight and make sure that the needs of all the people he works with are met appropriately. An inclination is not the same thing as a rigid caste or a predestined fate.

    I say that the fairly significant sexual dimorphism - physical, mental and emotional - between men and women is not only not a bad thing, but is in fact a very good thing... one that has been a hugely contributing factor to our success as a species. It's a form of built-in specialization that doesn't have to be trained or bred in over generations... it's just there. And as we see in the rest of the animal and plant kingdoms, species that have higher degrees of specialization between their member groups tend to be more successful as a species.

    I say, vive la difference! Let us rejoice in and celebrate what makes each of us unique instead of trying to insist that we are all one homogenous brick of humanity without distinctions or inherent differences. However, as we're doing this, let's not forget that whatever our roles, each of us has an indispensable part to play, and none of us is sufficiently more important than another that we have the right to look down on others, especially not for something as simple as being one sex or the other.
    -=[Talthas]=-
    ODN Senior Moderator

    ODN Rules

  19. #18
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    West / East Coast
    Posts
    3,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talthas View Post
    I say, vive la difference! Let us rejoice in and celebrate what makes each of us unique
    I'll cheer to that and to the uniqueness of those alpha/omega differences and complementary features which makes life exceedingly fascinating.

    Last edited by eye4magic; April 19th, 2013 at 10:36 PM.
    "The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” --"The Mental Universe” | Nature
    [Eye4magic]
    Super Moderator

  20. #19
    Kyuhee Lee
    Guest

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    I can't agree with you and I don't know what you want to say. "Equal" and "Difference" is not a antonym. A men and women are different, right! But they are equal, too. if what you want to say is their difference of sex and gender, it's right. However, you said, thesedays, many mothers go out and work so parents are struggling. It's not a reason. Because father's earning is not enough, mother start to work. At first, mothers work and fathers are in home and care their babies, It's right also. I think it was wrong that's thinking in the past. But in thesedays, It's not strange mother's work. It's just their rights and wants.

  21. Likes Squatch347 liked this post
  22. #20
    Senior Mod

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,289
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Men and women are not equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuhee Lee View Post
    I can't agree with you and I don't know what you want to say. "Equal" and "Difference" is not a antonym. A men and women are different, right! But they are equal, too.
    I think we're in agreement here. Simply because someone has a function that they excel in doing or that they prefer to other things doesn't mean that other important jobs are any less significant. Can anyone seriously argue, for example, that raising children or making sure that the home - where we spend most of our time while not at work - is well-organized and runs effectively is any less important than being an accountant or a lawyer or a doctor? I certainly can't make that claim. Without a well-managed, happy home, nobody can really be as effective at any job as they could be when their home life is happy and healthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuhee Lee
    if what you want to say is their difference of sex and gender, it's right. However, you said, thesedays, many mothers go out and work so parents are struggling. It's not a reason. Because father's earning is not enough, mother start to work. At first, mothers work and fathers are in home and care their babies, It's right also. I think it was wrong that's thinking in the past. But in thesedays, It's not strange mother's work. It's just their rights and wants.
    I understand your point that if men want to work inside the home while the woman holds a job outside the home, or if both parents have to work then that's an acceptable lifestyle choice. However, wouldn't you agree that there are some jobs for which women on average are better suited than men, and that there are some jobs for which men on average are better suited than women? Also, do you believe it's better for children to have at least one parent or at least some close relative at home while they are very young, at least?
    -=[Talthas]=-
    ODN Senior Moderator

    ODN Rules

  23. Likes Squatch347 liked this post
 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Women are better drivers than men
    By Aspoestertjie in forum Formal Discussion
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: January 4th, 2015, 11:56 AM
  2. FD: Women are better drivers than men
    By Aspoestertjie in forum Formal Debate Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: January 25th, 2009, 09:54 PM
  3. Men vs Women
    By Aspoestertjie in forum Entertainment
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: June 5th, 2008, 09:05 AM
  4. men vs women
    By rohit in forum General Debate
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 27th, 2007, 06:14 AM
  5. Are men and women equal.
    By xennaq in forum Science and Technology
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: July 26th, 2004, 05:01 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •