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View Poll Results: Should Atheists be actively Anti-Theist? (directed at atheists)

Voters
9. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    1 11.11%
  • No

    6 66.67%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • I don't care

    2 22.22%
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Results 81 to 85 of 85
  1. #81
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    Re: How should Atheists treat Theists?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    If you think it's not a satisfying answer, bear in mind that America gives you the freedom to hold that view.
    I'm not American.

    ---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by libre View Post
    Personally, I think ESTABLISHING an ethical system is the main problem with organizations like religion. People have a built in ethical system that you automatically establish while growing up... some aspects are even in our dna imo...
    The rest of your post seems to be an argument against the lack of clarity in Christian ethics due to the lack of clarity in the Bible (which of course I would agree with you on). I also agree that our DNA codes a lot of behaviour and instils various motives. However we cannot simply take the view that what is natural (what is in our DNA) must be good - this is an appeal to nature (similar to the sort Catholicism often uses in arguing against contraception). Your post demonstrates that whatever ethical system we establish it must be clear, not vague.

    ---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    1. Peaceful co-existence.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    2. The freedom to practice your faith...all but a select group would decide what religious belief that law is based on
    Good point, and yes. Of course, in a country like Saudi Arabia where 97% are Muslims, the argument is somewhat weaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    3. Its in the constitution, a strong argument in the US.
    Hahaha...

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    4. It protects religion from political corruption.
    A very interesting point! I would like this to be true, but I don't know of any other cases besides Christianity, and I am no historian.

    ---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by czahar View Post
    What about looking outside the West to the philosophical systems of the East? They could provide secular alternatives the ethical codes and security religion brings. Confucianism, for instance, has a detailed moral code, does not require much critical thinking, and has served as one of the many pillars of East Asian society for thousands of years.
    A very good idea, but unfortunately it may be impractical for the majority of Western Christians for cultural reasons (it's just too far from they are used too, and might not fit with their political beliefs too). In any case, I don't know enough about Confucianism to say whether it is better or worse than the mainstream monotheistic religions.

  2. #82
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    Re: How should Atheists treat Theists?

    There's a very famous physicist named Steven Weinberg (He's done a lot, he's certainly smarter than Einstein, but he's a lot less well-known). He's a rather famous atheist.

    Recently, it's become a trend for physicists (in the ever-increasing difficulty in acquiring ever-decreasing funds) to try to get private grants for their research. One such organization is called the Templeton Foundation; this organization openly asks scientists to engage in research that, well, they say it best, really:

    "The Templeton Prize honors a living person who has made an exceptional contribution to affirming life's spiritual dimension, whether through insight, discovery, or practical works."

    In a very ironic gesture, Steven Weinberg asked for a grant from them and received it. However, as a stipulation of the grant, he had to give a statement about the necessity of a public dialogue between science and religion --which he did. The statement was somewhat depressing, I think, for the Templeton Foundation, as his response to them was simply:

    "Yes, there should be a dialogue between science and religion. And it should be a destructive one."
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  3. #83
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    Re: How should Atheists treat Theists?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldPhoenix View Post
    There's a very famous physicist named Steven Weinberg (He's done a lot, he's certainly smarter than Einstein, but he's a lot less well-known). He's a rather famous atheist.

    Recently, it's become a trend for physicists (in the ever-increasing difficulty in acquiring ever-decreasing funds) to try to get private grants for their research. One such organization is called the Templeton Foundation; this organization openly asks scientists to engage in research that, well, they say it best, really:

    "The Templeton Prize honors a living person who has made an exceptional contribution to affirming life's spiritual dimension, whether through insight, discovery, or practical works."

    In a very ironic gesture, Steven Weinberg asked for a grant from them and received it. However, as a stipulation of the grant, he had to give a statement about the necessity of a public dialogue between science and religion --which he did. The statement was somewhat depressing, I think, for the Templeton Foundation, as his response to them was simply:

    "Yes, there should be a dialogue between science and religion. And it should be a destructive one."
    What did Templeton give Weinberg the grant for?
    "The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” --"The Mental Universe” | Nature
    [Eye4magic]
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  4. #84
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    Re: How should Atheists treat Theists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caconym View Post
    I didn't know exactly where to post this, but seeing as it is directed at fellow atheists, I thought here was good as anywhere else. Just to clarify: I am an atheist.

    Firstly, atheists need to establish an ethical system independent of God. There are many possibilities: Humanism, Virtue Ethics, Neo-Kantian ethics etc. I am (Motive) Utilitarian; I will not go into defending this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism <-- the introduction suffices as an introduction to Utilitarianism.
    Can you post a link without fully explaining it? If you can, then can I just post my counter introduction to utilitarianism?

    http://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com...-should-we-do/

    I contend that relative moral systems prescribed under atheism cannot have objective moral quality, and therefore are totally unable to be moral. I think Utilitarianism falls in this category.

    Your whole post is based on Utilitarianism, and a specific version of it, and you aren't willing to defend it? If utilitarianism is incorrect, then none of your conclusions follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caconym View Post
    Religious Moderates

    Most atheists agree these are harmless, but some suggest they can potentially create extremists. However, moderates often actively slate extremists in their interpretation of scripture; moderates say that literal reading is naive and not how the book was intended to be read; that symbolism, metaphor and cultural relativism must be accounted for. They would agree equally that extremists are dangerous idiots. Moreover, there is no evidence that religion (not some genetic or other environmental factor) is the cause of extreme behaviour. Atheists, agnostics, mystics; all humanity is just as prone to being extremely violent or absurd. I have never seen any convincing evidence to suppose that religion increases the rate of this behaviour.
    Agreed - except for the part that extremists are dangerous idiots. I don't think all extremism is the same. Remember, Jesus was pretty extreme. But not dangerous, nor an idiot.

    I don't see a problem with extremism. Maybe we should define it. Consider if you will, that materialist atheism is extremism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caconym View Post
    Humanism is a better alternative; it offers a (fairly) absolute moral code....
    What is it, then? I can't find a singular moral code anywhere in Humanism. It seems to me humanism is very ambiguous, maybe moreso than Utilitarianism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caconym View Post
    it makes Utilitarian sense to let the religious go on believing.
    Everything can make sense in utilitarianism. Its a theory that can be used to justify literally anything.

    Will it make lots of people happy to see George W. Bush tortured on TV? Well then do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caconym View Post
    How should Atheists treat Theists?
    I think they should treat them irrespective of theology.
    He who has an ear, let them hear.

  5. #85
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    Re: How should Atheists treat Theists?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    What did Templeton give Weinberg the grant for?
    Theoretical physics research.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

 

 
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