Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: @Liberals Only

  1. #1
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    @Liberals Only

    This is a post just for the liberals here, any right-wingers can of course read but I'm not particularly interested in what you have to say and you will be ignored.

    I haven't been here long but I notice that there is a strong right-wing influence here such that only recent people such as myself are left-of-center. Most of them seem to be better at debating techniques than really supporting their positions well and that's not a surprise since they've been here longer, some even for several years.

    I was wondering whether we can pool together some ideas and strategies. I notice that there's a Liberal Lodge group but it doesn't look like it can be joined - any Liberals and Progressives interested in starting up another?

  2. #2
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    10,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    I've added you to the Liberal Landing user group. Please let me know if there are any problems.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  3. #3
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    Coolie. Thanks! No peeking :-)

  4. #4
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    10,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    I don't have access to that forum, I can only put people in it.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  5. #5
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,483
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    Funny. Back when I started here at ODN, I felt the exact opposite. There were a greater number of active leftist and they seemed to hold the greater influence at the time. But, as with most things, the right engages and ultimately emerges victorious in the arena of ideas because we base our arguments and positions based on facts, logic, and the inalienable rights that all people in this country possess. While the left gains an early advantage by engaging in arguments of emotion by trying to separate people into different groups and pitting one against the other for political gain.

    In the long run, the Right does and will continue to win the war. Small victories by the left here and there are of little consequence.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Funny. Back when I started here at ODN, I felt the exact opposite. There were a greater number of active leftist and they seemed to hold the greater influence at the time. But, as with most things, the right engages and ultimately emerges victorious in the arena of ideas because we base our arguments and positions based on facts, logic, and the inalienable rights that all people in this country possess. While the left gains an early advantage by engaging in arguments of emotion by trying to separate people into different groups and pitting one against the other for political gain.

    In the long run, the Right does and will continue to win the war. Small victories by the left here and there are of little consequence.
    I don't know about that. In the short time I've been here it seems that many of the arguments are indeed based on facts but they're facts misapplied; and victories have been lacking because right-wingers are huffing off all butt-hurt or ignoring/blocking people or simply not answering and leaving a thread dangling. Or being complainy or invoking rules and getting me censured (which in all honesty is probably fair but that's no reason not to continue). It's one of the reasons why I want to discuss this with other liberals because it seems that there is a point where it is a clear 'win' when these things happen.

    One big weakness I'm finding isn't so much the logic of the arguments but that whatever is being proposed just doesn't seem to a basis in reality or, just like a religion, would only work if you accept certain premises to begin with, or coming up with examples that aren't realistic or possible. And that's another reason why I want to hone the arguments towards that point - it seems doing it in the field and pointing out these flaws with real right wingers is rubbing people the wrong way, so clearly I need to improve there and I'd rather do it in an environment that is a little more collegial.

    I think unless there is an actual concession, which I haven't seen much of, there is no victory for either side and I think that's a weakness of this debate format.

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,345
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    In the long run, the Right does and will continue to win the war. Small victories by the left here and there are of little consequence.

    hee-hee, that doesn't follow from the recent rout in the culture wars.

    "Traditional" values of which you espouse have always been overcome. Jesus, our super liberal leader, railed against you. The enlightenment...hello?

    The American Revolution. Hate to break it to you but the tories were the conservatives, interested in their traditional way of doing things and their allegience to the King.

    The Civil War, you're on the wrong and losing side again. I suppose you're going to come back and say you would've been for Reconstruction, yeah, that'd be big government.

    Women's sufferage, worker's rights, civil rights, gay rights, social justice, environmental justice...all things that are opposed by conservative ideology and all things that have lost.

    ---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    This is a post just for the liberals here, any right-wingers can of course read but I'm not particularly interested in what you have to say and you will be ignored.

    I haven't been here long but I notice that there is a strong right-wing influence here such that only recent people such as myself are left-of-center. Most of them seem to be better at debating techniques than really supporting their positions well and that's not a surprise since they've been here longer, some even for several years.

    I was wondering whether we can pool together some ideas and strategies. I notice that there's a Liberal Lodge group but it doesn't look like it can be joined - any Liberals and Progressives interested in starting up another?

    Liberals have the big tent, so you have to remember it is harder for us. I'm a liberal who also happens to have faith, digs the Bible (among many other religious texts) and subscribes to scientific explanations of the origin of the universe.

    It's much easier when you believe in very little. If you believe in no government, well, there's little you have to defend. Being for no taxes? Who couldn't get on board with that? That's like being for no cancer.

    We have the tougher row to hoe.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Liberals have the big tent, so you have to remember it is harder for us.
    Too big sometimes but I think it boils down to treating other people well and fighting for the weak and needy.

    I'm a liberal who also happens to have faith, digs the Bible (among many other religious texts) and subscribes to scientific explanations of the origin of the universe.
    I'm an atheist but I have never been more struck by the Liberal Christian position than when Biden answered a question on abortion or something last year and said that although he has his personal beliefs he doesn't believe that it should be imposed on everyone else. Which I think is the major difference between Liberal Christians and Right-Wing Christians. I still don't believe that either of your Gods exist but I have no problems with people having a religion (for the most part!)

    It's much easier when you believe in very little. If you believe in no government, well, there's little you have to defend. Being for no taxes? Who couldn't get on board with that? That's like being for no cancer.
    Yes, that's what I'm finding. A simple world view that works in all situations seems to be compelling on the the surface but then the world is too complicated and our desire for a better world is often at odds. Still, I'm trying to understand some of these views so more on that later.

    We have the tougher row to hoe.
    Like you pointed out, we are winning and it totally makes the work totally worth it.

  9. #9
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Posts
    7,358
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    In the long run, the Right does and will continue to win the war. Small victories by the left here and there are of little consequence.
    I'ts already been addressed but modern history is one of the right continually loosing influence and power in the world and the more progressive and liberal elements gaining ground.

    Though it depends of course on what you see as left or right, liberal or conservative. There are some values like working hard and using reason that will always triumph, but those aren't truly the divide of left and right. The true divide is tradition vs change. Tradition keeps us from going off the rails, but change is what makes us greater one day from the next. Liberalism is at its heart the notion that we must change and to do so we need to permit variation and encourage creativity. Conservatism is about preserving current wisdom and honoring core values.

    Personally, I think both are essential, but that neither should be entirely dominant. Tradition should mean something and core values should remain core, but you need to allow for new thinking and encourage trying different ideas. I think the wisest among us can have a side but still acknowledge the value the other side brings, to fight it out in the court of ideas but never truly try to dominate.

    Still, change is what America is really about. Its about the freedom to be yourself, have bold ideas, and always be better. That to me is the true liberal spirit.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  10. #10
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: @Liberals Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Funny. Back when I started here at ODN, I felt the exact opposite. There were a greater number of active leftist and they seemed to hold the greater influence at the time. But, as with most things, the right engages and ultimately emerges victorious in the arena of ideas because we base our arguments and positions based on facts, logic, and the inalienable rights that all people in this country possess. While the left gains an early advantage by engaging in arguments of emotion by trying to separate people into different groups and pitting one against the other for political gain.

    In the long run, the Right does and will continue to win the war. Small victories by the left here and there are of little consequence.
    "Leftists" actually only refers to socialists, including social democrats, anarcho-syndicalists, anarcho-collectivists, Marxists, communists, etc. The word you were looking for was "liberal", which is a centrist. It depends, of course, somewhat on where you place the line of "Left/Right", but "Leftist" as a term still has the traditional connotation of a proper socialist. There have been precious few leftists on ODN.

    Also, the last sentence is just silly in light of the changing American social demographic.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Liberals, where is your outrage?
    By Someguy in forum Politics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: December 18th, 2012, 03:10 PM
  2. Liberals Only Poll
    By RfrancisR in forum ODN Polls
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: July 17th, 2006, 08:43 PM
  3. How many liberals can say...
    By Apokalupsis in forum Politics
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: January 17th, 2006, 05:25 PM
  4. Who watches the Liberals?
    By Paul in forum Politics
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: May 23rd, 2004, 08:59 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •