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  1. #41
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    If you consider Breitbart news, well, you have my condolences.
    Typical ad hom fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy
    I'm assuming you didn't follow your own link.

    "Palazzo’s office was in touch with the heads of the National Park Service, the Department of the Interior and the Capitol Police. He says all these officials rejected his request to allow the veterans, many of whom are octogenarians and some of whom are in poor health, to attend." http://hotair.com/headlines/archives...d-rejected-it/
    You realize that this quote supports what I said right? The NPS rejected their request to enter an open memorial and the NPS was explicitly told to reject that request by the Administration.

    Thanks for proving my point for me.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  2. #42
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    If you consider Breitbart news, well, you have my condolences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch
    Typical ad hom fallacy.
    Well, Squatch, I'm going to have to second the general statement made in CowBoyX's comment. After the major ****-up at Breitbart "news" that lead to the ACORN incident (More here on Wiki), it's not a great idea to use them as anything resembling a trustworthy source. They're proven to being outright political hacks and, to be blunt, blatant f***ing liars.

    They are the farthest thing from credible sources and I wouldn't trust what they have to say on a single topic unless it was backed up --and I mean the entire story's research-- by a second source. And even then, I'd only believe it because of the second source.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  3. #43
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldPhoenix View Post
    Well, Squatch, I'm going to have to second the general statement made in CowBoyX's comment. After the major ****-up at Breitbart "news" that lead to the ACORN incident
    Wait, let me get this straight. In order to condemn a source for a relatively minor issue when it comes to the actual facts of the case, you quote Media Matters? Really? That's like the charcoal calling the leaf black. Wow.

    They aren't the furthest thing from a credible source, Media Matters is the furthest thing from a credible source. You might as well brought an alex jones interview here.

    And this entirely ignores my point. Rather than actually deal with the issue, rather than point out how it is wrong, you simply dismiss it because of the name? Classy.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  4. #44
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    the NPS was explicitly told to reject that request by the Administration.

    You'll have to support that.


    I'd like to see something that media matters has reported that you have a problem with also, other than a blanket statement. Anything specific? because they aren't a news organization, don't claim to be, they are a media watchdog organization.
    Last edited by CowboyX; October 3rd, 2013 at 06:02 PM.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    Wait, let me get this straight. In order to condemn a source for a relatively minor issue when it comes to the actual facts of the case, you quote Media Matters? Really? That's like the charcoal calling the leaf black. Wow.

    They aren't the furthest thing from a credible source, Media Matters is the furthest thing from a credible source. You might as well brought an alex jones interview here.

    And this entirely ignores my point. Rather than actually deal with the issue, rather than point out how it is wrong, you simply dismiss it because of the name? Classy.
    Classy indeed. When you have a source that in the past has literally made-up documents and video footage to destroy a political organization just to help Republicans attack their opposition --then yes, you can best believe that I'm going to tell you that you should never, ever, cite an article or "journalism" from that source, yeah.

    There's a reason why I didn't just cite MediaMatters --there was also a nice long Wikipedia article that went over the example. But to my recollection MediaMatters has never blatantly made up a story by fabricated evidence to affect national politics.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  6. #46
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    If you consider Breitbart news, well, you have my condolences.
    Genetic fallacy mixed in with a dose of ad hominem.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX
    "Palazzo’s office was in touch with the heads of the National Park Service, the Department of the Interior and the Capitol Police. He says all these officials rejected his request to allow the veterans, many of whom are octogenarians and some of whom are in poor health, to attend." http://hotair.com/headlines/archives...d-rejected-it/
    This doesn't actually address Squatch's point. Who would give the heads of the National Park Service, the Department of the interior, and the Capitol Police instructions to close these things down except the President himself? Nobody else has the authority to do so. To suggest otherwise is to say that either a) the President is incompetent enough to not even know what his own subordinates are instructing the government to do in his name, or b) that three separate departments are taking unilateral action without having first gotten sanction from the Administration to do so.

    So... which is it? Is it that the President is so incompetent that he either doesn't know or can't control what happens in his own administration, or did he order these things to be done, thus proving Squatch's point?


    addendum: Should have read the "next page" before posting... oh, well... I did make some slightly different points.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Thanks for this. We should share war stories about how hard it is sometimes to keep your mouth shut when some really heinous things are said. Sometimes, it's just as a joke and I sort of counter-joke as a counter but when it gets serious about how Obama is just serving his own race then I tend to clam up. I guess in the end it's a bit cowardly but once I don't need this job any more, I'm going to make sure they find out - it's the only thing keeping me going really!

    [Text Removed]
    1) Yes its cowardly not to speak up if you are encountering real racism. I have called people on it before and according to you all Conservatives are racist. Grow some damn balls.

    2) I have heard as much racism from the Left as I have of the Right. I have heard flat out racist comments from Liberals on Conservative minorities many a time. I can recall one racist who openly supported the Democrats in 2008 because they would fund things he wanted funded.

    3) There is racism and then there is "everyone who we don't like is a racist". Unfortunately Liberals don't seem to know the difference.

    ---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------

    Amazing the selective memory Democrats have of their own past.....

    Does anyone know which party dominated the South from the Civil War up through the Civil Rights Acts?

    Does anyone know from which party the Senator who filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was from? Does anyone know how long he remained in office and a part of that party?

    Jesus said something about plucking a planck out of your own eye first before removing a splinter. Wise advice for a Democratic party that has been steeped in racism from the start.
    Last edited by Squatch347; October 5th, 2013 at 05:11 PM.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

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  9. #48
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    1) Yes its cowardly not to speak up if you are encountering real racism. I have called people on it before and according to you all Conservatives are racist. Grow some damn balls.
    I don't disagree on being cowardly but I need this job. They also don't know I'm an atheist either so I'm constantly watching what I say on multiple fronts. Also, I don't believe all Conservatives are racist but the ones I interact with on a daily basis are. Also, Conservative policies tend to harm racial minorities disproportionally and since minorities also tend to favor Democrats more then much of what Conservatives do end up having racial side effects. This may or may not align with personal racism (in my experience it lines up nicely for my Republican co-workers: they can be consistent politically with the race of people they don't like). But I definitely don't believe that all Conservatives are racist.

    2) I have heard as much racism from the Left as I have of the Right. I have heard flat out racist comments from Liberals on Conservative minorities many a time. I can recall one racist who openly supported the Democrats in 2008 because they would fund things he wanted funded.
    I don't disagree that there are racist people on the left. Or even minorities that are racist too. However, it's rare that those opinions reach the level they do on Fox News or Republican politics and policies.

    3) There is racism and then there is "everyone who we don't like is a racist". Unfortunately Liberals don't seem to know the difference.
    I understand the difference but it's not the Liberals that have a 'Southern Strategy' either.

  10. #49
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    I've found that most of the time when Liberals have used the racist label either in front of me or against me, it has been part of the classic Alinsky tactic of demonizing and discrediting and distracting one's opponent to sway sentiment against them so that the liberal's own argument carries the debate by virtue of an ad baculum and ad hominem fallacy all rolled up into one. It's called the "race card" for a reason.. played like a trump on any situation that is disagreeable.

    You don't like my policies? You're a racist.
    You disagree with my statements? You're a racist.
    You don't believe my statistics? Racist.

    Most of the time I've seen people called "racists," it's been with the express aim of shutting down debate, usually because the ideas being put forward by the person claiming racism lacked substance and force.

    I have seen very few exceptions to this rule and very few actual examples of racism on this site despite having seen many people actually called racists for things that either had nothing to do with race or simply weren't racist even when they did touch on the issue of race.
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  11. #50
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Yes, but I suppose friend is too strong a term.
    I want to make sure I understand you correctly here. You think that the rightist on this site are racist then because they don't like Obama? or for whatever reason?
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  12. #51
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    I don't disagree on being cowardly but I need this job. They also don't know I'm an atheist either so I'm constantly watching what I say on multiple fronts. Also, I don't believe all Conservatives are racist but the ones I interact with on a daily basis are. Also, Conservative policies tend to harm racial minorities disproportionally and since minorities also tend to favor Democrats more then much of what Conservatives do end up having racial side effects. This may or may not align with personal racism (in my experience it lines up nicely for my Republican co-workers: they can be consistent politically with the race of people they don't like). But I definitely don't believe that all Conservatives are racist.
    By law they cannot discriminate. I am very open about my politics and religion in a very liberal and atheistic environment and as a result have been called a bigot for even disagreeing by those with power over me. That came after I stated that Al Jazeera is not a fully objective news source. Thats literally all I said and I was called a bigot for it. It would be like me calling you a bigot for claiming Fox News is not objective. Thats the sort of environment I work in.

    I disagree that Republican policies have racial side-effect. Challenge to support a claim. They don't.

    It is also logically fallacious to jump from unsupported claims of racial side-effects to concepts of personal racism.

    Finally, if you don't think all Conservatives are racists, then you should really stop projecting claims of racism on people like me whom you have never met. Not only is it logically fallacious, but its not very courteous.

    I don't disagree that there are racist people on the left. Or even minorities that are racist too. However, it's rare that those opinions reach the level they do on Fox News or Republican politics and policies.
    Examples?

    I understand the difference but it's not the Liberals that have a 'Southern Strategy' either.
    Its not the Republicans that had a Robert Byrd either.

    Before you throw around the fictitious "Southern Strategy" around, you should try looking at actual voting patterns in the South over that time period and even more importantly, their voting patterns prior to the Civil Rights.

    "Southern Democrat" was a reality up until Reagan when he took every state except 6 (so sweeping was his victory that he took California, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts! 1984 was even more complete)....and even then Georgia still went Democrat. That was long after the supposed "southern strategy".

    Historically, the Democrats have been the party of racism....they continued to elect racists and allow them to serve up until 2010 when Robert Byrd died.

    ---------- Post added at 08:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

    I didn't like Clinton either.

    Does that make me a racist?

    I honestly have not liked any president under which I have been old enough to actually understand their policies. Every presidential candidate I have voted for lost. That includes 2004 when I didn't vote for Bush.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

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  14. #52
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    By law they cannot discriminate. I am very open about my politics and religion in a very liberal and atheistic environment and as a result have been called a bigot for even disagreeing by those with power over me. That came after I stated that Al Jazeera is not a fully objective news source. Thats literally all I said and I was called a bigot for it. It would be like me calling you a bigot for claiming Fox News is not objective. Thats the sort of environment I work in.
    I'm sure that they'll come up with some trumped up reason to fire me. Either way, I'm not in a position where the risk is worth it.


    I disagree that Republican policies have racial side-effect. Challenge to support a claim. They don't.
    Hmm. How about getting rid of food stamps? Doesn't that affect more minorities than whites? Or the new voting laws that came in recently that Holder is accusing of being racist?

    It is also logically fallacious to jump from unsupported claims of racial side-effects to concepts of personal racism.
    I agree with that. Supporting a policy that happens to have negative racial side-effects doesn't mean the person is necessarily racist.

    Finally, if you don't think all Conservatives are racists, then you should really stop projecting claims of racism on people like me whom you have never met. Not only is it logically fallacious, but its not very courteous.
    I do try and target the policies but sometimes it is a little hard. For example, when discussing about allowing businesses to discriminate against race or disputing whether civil rights really exist I find it very difficult to not accuse the person of being a racist: but I do agree and bear in mind that it is not polite. However, I don't believe it polite to say that to a person that you are defending a business' right to discriminate against them purely based on their race.


    Examples?
    Southern strategy. Not racism per se but all the anti-Muslim talk is pretty awful to see. The stuff about undocumented immigrants. Santorum's 'blah people'. Colin Powell's statements (e.g. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/colin-pow...on-minorities/).

    Its not the Republicans that had a Robert Byrd either.

    Before you throw around the fictitious "Southern Strategy" around, you should try looking at actual voting patterns in the South over that time period and even more importantly, their voting patterns prior to the Civil Rights.

    "Southern Democrat" was a reality up until Reagan when he took every state except 6 (so sweeping was his victory that he took California, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts! 1984 was even more complete)....and even then Georgia still went Democrat. That was long after the supposed "southern strategy".

    Historically, the Democrats have been the party of racism....they continued to elect racists and allow them to serve up until 2010 when Robert Byrd died.
    I agree historically that Democrats were the racists but I currently see their policies as being more beneficial to poor people, most of whom are black. I see Republicans today using words like welfare queen, terms such as black-thugs (or inner-city thugs), etc.

    And perhaps my opinions are colored by what I hear every day but some Republicans believe ObamaCare is mainly to help black people and are automatically against it because of that.


    Anyway, I don't want to discuss race at this point in time and I have another thread to resolve first. Don't want to fire all my bullets in one go :-).

    ---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    I want to make sure I understand you correctly here. You think that the rightist on this site are racist then because they don't like Obama? or for whatever reason?
    No, my earlier statement was that the rightists (is that a word?) know that there are plenty of racists in their real-world midst and not really owning up to it.

  15. #53
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934
    Hmm. How about getting rid of food stamps? Doesn't that affect more minorities than whites? Or the new voting laws that came in recently that Holder is accusing of being racist?
    Yeah because its not like there are millions of poor white people on food stamps too...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And calling voting laws racist doesn't make them so, especially from the highly partisan Holder. Consider that the exact same laws have been enacted in other states with INCREASES in minority voting numbers.

    When Georgia (deep south) passed a voter ID law, minority voters increased in number.....how is that possible when according to Liberals the exact opposite should happen? Maybe the voting laws have virtually no impact on minorities? Thats what the data suggests.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/despite...-georgi/nR2bx/
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  16. #54
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934
    I do try and target the policies but sometimes it is a little hard. For example, when discussing about allowing businesses to discriminate against race or disputing whether civil rights really exist I find it very difficult to not accuse the person of being a racist: but I do agree and bear in mind that it is not polite. However, I don't believe it polite to say that to a person that you are defending a business' right to discriminate against them purely based on their race.
    I never made such a claim, yet you have all but accused me of racism for opposing Obama. For that matter, I know of know one here who has made such a claim. Are you not able to separate issues or people or do you simply paint everything with the same brush?
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  17. #55
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    I never made such a claim, yet you have all but accused me of racism for opposing Obama. For that matter, I know of know one here who has made such a claim. Are you not able to separate issues or people or do you simply paint everything with the same brush?
    That was with another discussion with someone else. Not sure when I accused you of racism for opposing Obama though.

  18. #56
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    That was with another discussion with someone else. Not sure when I accused you of racism for opposing Obama though.
    You're right. You didn't accuse me of racism. You just suggested that I hated him.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  19. #57
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    That was with another discussion with someone else. Not sure when I accused you of racism for opposing Obama though.
    No, you just made a board sweeping generalization that suggested that anyone that opposes Obama does so only because they are racist.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  20. #58
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    No, you just made a board sweeping generalization that suggested that anyone that opposes Obama does so only because they are racist.
    Not sure when I ever did that - can you quote the relevant thing I said?

  21. #59
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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Yeah because its not like there are millions of poor white people on food stamps too...

    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	150 
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    Hmm, Pew states a different picture:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (source)

    We'll have to wait for the government to start back up to get the official statistics: http://www.census.gov/did/www/saipe/...info/snap.html.

    What's your source.



    And calling voting laws racist doesn't make them so, especially from the highly partisan Holder.
    Agreed but they are disproportionally affecting poor people, who happen to be minorities and who also happen to vote Democratically. Let's see if he wins.

    Consider that the exact same laws have been enacted in other states with INCREASES in minority voting numbers.

    When Georgia (deep south) passed a voter ID law, minority voters increased in number.....how is that possible when according to Liberals the exact opposite should happen? Maybe the voting laws have virtually no impact on minorities? Thats what the data suggests.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/despite...-georgi/nR2bx/
    Oh believe me, there will be a huge backlash in the next election. Don't think for one minute this will slow people down from voting - it energizes people more. Did you not see the massive lines in Florida?

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    Re: Big list of things you hate with a fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Not sure when I ever did that - can you quote the relevant thing I said?
    With pleasure. In this post speciifically here:

    Truly, to echo your other point, it would be more honest for the other side call him the N-word and just get it over with. When I have discussions with my R-coworkers (who don't know I'm Liberal btw, lol!) that's their primary fallback position. and this gem: It does make me wonder if our right-wing friends are just keeping quiet about this.

    and on numerous other threads you have made similar comments.

    You can try to cover it up, redress it, pretend you didn't say it all you want....but it's pretty that you hold the belief that anyone who opposes Obama only does it because they are racist.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

 

 
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