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  1. #241
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Aww, your anecdote is cute. You can support the above I'm sure.
    Anecdotal evidence.. is evidence. But you are free to dismiss it.
    I never pushed further than my own experience. Which is generally related to maintenance contracts for the local gov. (Like grass cutting).

    But, I wouldn't even know how to submit my own personal experience into public record to appeal to it in an "official" way.
    Is there a peer review magazine I should appeal too?
    To serve man.

  2. #242
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Basically, the gov shuts down and the sky doesn't fall.
    Sometimes I think we are the safest when Congress is shut down (out of session)….
    Last edited by Squatch347; January 2nd, 2019 at 06:17 AM. Reason: tag fix

  3. #243
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I never pushed further than my own experience.
    You said "They are all giveaways to government official contractor friends!"

    ---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    But, I wouldn't even know how to submit my own personal experience into public record to appeal to it in an "official" way.
    Let's start with some details, when was this? Who was the ship builder? Do you still know them? What was the contract for and any details of that? What agency, etc.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #244
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    You said "They are all giveaways to government official contractor friends!"
    Yup, you quoted correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Let's start with some details, when was this? Who was the ship builder? Do you still know them? What was the contract for and any details of that? What agency, etc.
    Why? you already rejected it as anecdotal. None of the above is going to make it anything more than anecdotal.
    I am not going to name names.
    To serve man.

  5. #245
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Yup, you quoted correctly.
    Then can we have the support please?

    ---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Why? you already rejected it as anecdotal. None of the above is going to make it anything more than anecdotal.
    I am not going to name names.
    You asked.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  6. #246
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Then can we have the support please?
    I gave you anecdotal evidence.. which again you are free to reject, but evidence is offered.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    You asked.
    You don't appear to be any sort of proper authority.
    To serve man.

  7. #247
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I gave you anecdotal evidence.. which again you are free to reject, but evidence is offered.
    Again, You said "They are all giveaways to government official contractor friends!"

    You have to support ALL or retract your statement as a hasty generalization.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  8. #248
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    I'll chime in....

    Is it a bad thing, ya. Is it all bad, no.

    Why is it bad?
    -It is irresponsible. We entrust public officials to do the work of the state, to uphold their duties and responsibilities. None of them are claiming that a shutdown is the desired gaol, thus they are all failing to achieve the goal we have set for them, and the goal they set for themselves.

    -A lot of Americans rely on their government to meet its commitments to employ them or provide the services. Failing to do so is a failure and we should rightly be disappointed and upset.

    Why is it not so bad
    -It highlights areas of dysfunction. Both in the political sphere, but also that some government functions probably aren't as critical as they are made out to be.

    -It is an illustration of the divided powers of our government and how they effectively act as checks upon one another.

    -Sometimes it takes a crisis to resolve longstanding problems or disagreements
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  9. #249
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Why is it not so bad
    -It highlights areas of dysfunction. Both in the political sphere, but also that some government functions probably aren't as critical as they are made out to be.
    Such as? You mean like a janitor or a retail employee at a museum gift shop? All work has dignity and to deny that for political purposes is disrespectful. For there is no disagreement over border security rather how to go about it.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  10. #250
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Such as? You mean like a janitor or a retail employee at a museum gift shop? All work has dignity and to deny that for political purposes is disrespectful. For there is no disagreement over border security rather how to go about it.
    I think there are many disagreements about border security.

    As for useless services... let me know what you think of this article..
    https://reason.com/blog/2017/10/06/t...nt-agency-youv

    Sounds like a colossal waste of money and resources to me. It's not that building houses on the Navajo reservation is a bad thing, its that this agency is ineffective at doing it. The money could clearly be much better spent and the government could have just made a subsidy to the Navajo nation and let them sort out what to do with it. There there is no lawsuit about accountability for it. There are somethings the federal government just isn't very good at, or shouldn't be involved in because it would be better handled closer to where the actual activity is taking place. Asking washington DC to do oversight for building houses on a reservation is just not very rational. It adds a lot of beauracracy to the process and doesn't have any special advantages.

    If the museum gift shop makes money for the museum, or the janitor is good at cleaning it, thse are not useless jobs. On the other hand, if the gift shop always looses money, there is no reason for it. If the janitor doesn't keep the museum clean, then he should be replaced with a janitor who does.

    Government spending should be mission based. What are we trying to do. And then we have to ask, is it working? If it isn't working, we should stop doing it.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  11. #251
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I think there are many disagreements about border security.
    How to go about it, yes.

    ---------- Post added at 11:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post

    Sounds like a colossal waste of money and resources to me.
    That doesn't mean the functions aren't critical.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  12. #252
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    That doesn't mean the functions aren't critical.
    Is it your contention all federal gov't functions are "critical"?


    The federal gov't has expanded well past it's constitutional mandate and threatens the US's continued existence by saddling taxpayers with unreasonable debt!

  13. #253
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    In regards to the shut down. It is a sighn of the extreme devision in politics, when the Pres is not allowed to set .ooo8% of the national budget. I mean as far as money this is a non issue. The Dems are being complete hypocrites as many have changed their attitude with no new info except now a republican is in office.
    I could understand if this was their abortion issue, but it isn't. Their opposition is not based in principles, but political whim.
    That said, the worst thing would be for the present to try an use emergency powers. Even assuming it is a legit use of his power s and authority, it is not the way America should be run and no doubt Dems will is that approach in excess in the future.

    ---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------

    In regards to the shut down. It is a sighn of the extreme devision in politics, when the Pres is not allowed to set .ooo8% of the national budget. I mean as far as money this is a non issue. The Dems are being complete hypocrites as many have changed their attitude with no new info except now a republican is in office.
    I could understand if this was their abortion issue, but it isn't. Their opposition is not based in principles, but political whim.
    That said, the worst thing would be for the present to try an use emergency powers. Even assuming it is a legit use of his power s and authority, it is not the way America should be run and no doubt Dems will is that approach in excess in the future.
    To serve man.

  14. #254
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap
    Their opposition is not based in principles, but political whim.
    So what?

  15. #255
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    So what?
    It is not based in the best interest of the American people nor America (no matter which party engages in it!).

  16. #256
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    It is a sighn of the extreme devision in politics, when the Pres is not allowed to set .ooo8% of the national budget.
    More like a sign as to how our government was designed...correctly I would add.

    ---------- Post added at 01:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Is it your contention all federal gov't functions are "critical"?
    No.

    ---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    The federal gov't has expanded well past it's constitutional mandate and threatens the US's continued existence by saddling taxpayers with unreasonable debt!
    Horseshit. There is no constitutional mandate as to the size of the government.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  17. #257
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    In regards to the shut down. It is a sighn of the extreme devision in politics, when the Pres is not allowed to set .ooo8% of the national budget.
    It's not an issue of money. It's an issue whether they will acquiesce to the President holding the government hostage in order to force them to give him his wall money. They absolutely should not do that because if that tactic works for the President then he is likely to do it regularly.

    Which is not to say that the Democrats should never give him money for the wall. Such a thing can surely be negotiated and I'm sure that a deal can be made where they would approve funding for a wall in exchange for things that they want. As I recall, there was an earlier deal for wall funding in exchange for DACA (something like that anyway). So it seems that Democrats will put funding for the wall on the negotiating table and they have said they will negotiate once the government is funded again.

    But they apparently aren't going "negotiate with hostage-takers".


    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Their opposition is not based in principles, but political whim.
    No, it is based on principle. They won't negotiate with "hostage-takers". Nor should they.

  18. #258
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Mican I have not heard that message from any Democrat. Rather I have heard no money at all ever. Further, there is nothing wrong with negotiating now. Also, also the claim that this tactic is some how out of bounds politically, seems to apply only to Republicans as I recall Obama doing the exact same thing.

    So while I think I understand that being sone principle that could apply. I don't think there is any reason to think that is an actual principle the Dems have or that they are appealing to.

    ---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

    @freund.. if one side is disagreeing just for the sake of hurting the other side. That is making the American people your enemy. Specifically the half that elected your opponent. I think that is dangerous. Specidfically if you force the opposition to go nuclear option over non issues... Then what does it take for progress on actual issues? That isn't a healthy governing relationship and I think is bad for everyone because the other side is just going to do the same thing till we actually have a king.

    ---------- Post added at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

    @ cowboy.. yea it is working as it should. That Pres has to sgn the budget, and the house has to produce it. So far they are in disagreement.. so nothing gets done. Gov is working as it should.
    My problem is that this is a non issue that is being opposed for no reason.... Or rather no reason other than to hurt the political opponents of the Dems.
    If reasonable requests are met with refusal to negotiate... There is no hope for big issues to be addressed. And I don't think that is good for the nation.
    To serve man.

  19. #259
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    More like a sign as to how our government was designed...correctly I would add.[COLOR="Silver"]
    Perhaps, though I am not so sure (though in this case, Trump is a nut and the wall is na´ve and a waste of money).

    ---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    No.
    Oh it makes me happy (and frankly surprised) to see you with such a position
    Perhaps someday we can agree that BOTH parties are spending the US down a very dangerous path (financially).


    ---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Horseshit. There is no constitutional mandate as to the size of the government.
    I don't believe I mentioned the size of gov't.
    Last edited by Belthazor; January 12th, 2019 at 06:23 PM.

  20. #260
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    If reasonable requests are met with refusal to negotiate...
    This isn't a reasonable request. It's a dog whistle campaign slogan. He's been given far more reasonable offers.

    ---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    I don't believe I mentioned the size of gov't.
    You certainly did..."The federal gov't has expanded"...you're welcome to back peddle.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

 

 
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