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  1. #181
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    What i do know is how i feel and think and how a lot of my friends, mainly Marines, feel. We are more than willing to die to stop tyrannical Liberalism...or tyrannical anything.
    Yes, that is all you know, and it's precisely what I alluded to... it pertains to your entourage and you have no clue beyond that.
    You expect we should take your word for it?
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Yes, that is all you know, and it's precisely what I alluded to... it pertains to your entourage, but you have no clue beyond that.
    You expect we should take your word for it?
    I really don't care if you take my word for it or not. Reality exist outside of what you accept and reject. You trust slanted polls that don't reflect reality, i trust the opinions and honor of people and organizations dead set on not being Liberal slaves.

    By the by, the Marine Corps is a lot than an entourage

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    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  3. #183
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    I really don't care if you take my word for it or not. Reality exist outside of what you accept and reject.
    What can be said, and there is ample evidence for it, is that there is enough right wing anger to prompt domestic terrorism. This is well identified and taken seriously. I grant you that much because that can be verified.

    But you are referring to a fast approaching tipping point, where conservatives will take arms to kill liberals, and what's more, you drag the institution of the Marines in your violent fantasy. I really hope your fellow conservatives and soldiers will respond to your wacky views.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  4. #184
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Like you celebrate differences right? Lol. No thanks.
    I love that we have people with all sorts of belief systems that get argued back and forth before we decide the best way to proceed. I mean, you're pro-gay marriage right so you too are helping move the country leftward.

    I don't think I can thank a slave master for enslaving me. I love freedom and liberty more than any particular flag. Label that whatever your want, but it doesn't change reality.
    I have no idea specifically what you are talking about but your so-called freedoms and liberty are an illusion and always have been.

    If your freedom and liberties are at the expense of others then it's frankly not worth having. Perhaps you can start your own country but taking advantage of what this country has to offer without contributing meaningfully to it and keeping it strong and the people strong is just hypocritical.


    There are a lot of people who feel like i do and there is a tipping point that is rapidly approaching. We won't allow this country and our freedoms and liberties to be destroyed and sized by you and your ideology. You would love to enslave us and have us continue to pay your bills, but we won't put up with that for long.
    Well if you weren't so angry about helping your fellow countrymen out then perhaps you'd have a case. And I know the kind of thinking you are referring to. But you just have to understand it is simply wrong.

    I can't talk you guys down from doing something stupid but continuing to threaten violence isn't the way to get things done; blackmail isn't either. Just accept that you are ideologically too far from where the country is and move on.

    I'm sure Hitler viewed the people that rose up against him as murderous, treasonous, and seditious as well.
    Can we just have one thread without mentioning Hitler?

  5. #185
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    CNN is not a reliable source of anything, apart for outright lies and toting the Liberal agenda. It certainly isn't the place to look for unbiased viewpoints in the Tea Party or anything Conservative related.
    Please point me to a reliable source of Tea Party view point that shows to movement other then what I showed?

    It's perfectly reasonnable to expect someone to not say if they have violent or illegal intentions, but it's equally reasonable to say that if the far right movement is soaring, this would be reflected in legit political institutions.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by van
    And it's just that, I have no idea if it's a true example: I only created it for it's illustrative qualities.
    Then your point is reduced to “it is possible that we couldn’t discover X”. Which is not a very sustainable objection. It is a very weak reason at the very best.

    Quote Originally Posted by VAN
    Boom indeed! it's a very inefficient way to "learn". To answer your question in the title, it's very bad in that way.
    Well, If you and I agree that it is not a good thing to shut the gov down IN ORDER TO learn.
    Then it is a lot like saying “it is not a good thing to shoot your foot off to learn about the usefulness of it”.

    That argument is irrelevant once you already have shot your foot off, or in this case shut down the gov.

    So this is not very valid or reasonable abjection against the proposal. I would agree with you that we would all be better off if we could learn without pain, or learn in the “most efficient way”. But it is foolish to pass up a learning opportunity when the “pain” is already done.
    To serve man.

  7. #187
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    But it is foolish to pass up a learning opportunity when the “pain” is already done.
    That would be fine if you had not made an OP asking, "shooting your foot off, bad in what way?"
    And would have been even better if you had not tried to put a positive spin on why having a foot shot is just fine.

    But yes, I'm willing to settle with that.
    Last edited by Vandaler; October 17th, 2013 at 03:50 PM.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  8. #188
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    I see nothing at all "ill advised or mean spirited about not paying people for work they are not doing. And it is a positive step towards balancing the budget. Government is too big. It has a ton of employees that it probably doesn't need. There are 800k furloughed employees right? The country is still running just fine.
    This shutdown just showed you how much bloat there is. It really wouldn't affect many people. The ones that lost their jobs would eventually find others. It's too bad Obama is not a leader, but a divider. He tried to maximize the hurt by ordering various departments to close off things that would have the biggest effect on public perception of this shutdown. He is pathetic, and a disgrace to the office.
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  10. #189
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by VAN
    That would be fine if you had not made an OP asking, "shooting your foot off, bad in what way?"
    And would have been even better if you had not tried to put a positive spin on why having a foot shot is just fine.

    But yes, I'm willing to settle with that.
    Well, you are confusing the title for the OP. The OP asks
    "Given our current financial situation, specifically the fact that the gov spends more than it takes in, should each non-essential worker/department be forced to justify it's existence before being brought back?"

    So my counter is based on the fact that even if we accept it as shooting in the foot(which I don't), THEN your objection still isn't a strong or valid objection to the OP.
    To serve man.

  11. #190
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Perhaps this union needs to be torn apart. Especially if it is going to be controlled by a bunch of short-sighted Liberals who use their manipulation of the poor and ignorant to force their sickening ideology down our throats. I much rather have another Civil War before living under a Liberally dominated society. The Right wouldnt have much to fear from a Civil War. 75-80% of the military is Conservative. Most warriors are Conservative. It wouldn't be much of a problem to kill pretty much every single Liberal in the country if we so desired. Thankfully, there are some controlling factors, one reason I support abortion. Since the overwhelmingly vast majority of abortions are done on Liberal women that would in all liklihood produce more Liberals, that is a good thing.
    Sad how we forget. If conservatives are such big balled warriors, how is it you and your ideology loses over and over again in the face of such weakness?

    Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW2 and all of the other failed dictatorships, the enlightenment and the progress of science (intelligent design? helloooo, EPIC FAIL), civil rights, women's rights (especially to vote), gay rights, worker's rights...how many more?

    and I doubt your numbers.
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  12. #191
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Sad how we forget. If conservatives are such big balled warriors, how is it you and your ideology loses over and over again in the face of such weakness?
    We aren't fighting a physical war. That would be laughably one sided. It will happen eventually though. This country is headed in the direction of Civil War in my opinion, this one will be over ideological differences. When the dust from that clears, we will see where things stand. It's not a prospect that strikes any fear in my heart...I welcome it.


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW2 and all of the other failed dictatorships,
    LOL, you aren't REALLY suggesting that Liberals won these wars, are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    the enlightenment and the progress of science (intelligent design? helloooo, EPIC FAIL),
    Epic fail of what exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    civil rights,
    You the mean civil rights bills that you guys filibustered for one of the longest periods of time in history? Tell me more about how you are the black man's friend. LMAO.


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    women's rights (especially to vote), gay rights, worker's rights...how many more?
    How many more what? Things that you want to take credit for but don't deserve it? Well, why not take credit for the downfall of Rome while you are at it? Um. Discovery of America? IDK, you seem to have a wonderfully biased mind that isn't centered on reality in anyway. You Liberals sure are the 'Working man's friend' nothing like being a buddy who dramatically rises your healthcare costs, taxes the hell out of you, and indebted you several trillions of dollars without any means to ever pay it back, and then spits in your face by making it more difficult to not be apart of a union if you dont want to be, makes it harder for you to achieve wealth and success, and tells you all the time that you aren't doing your fair share. What a pal Liberals have been to the working man.


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    and I doubt your numbers.
    Oh, what a shocker. You don't believe something that someone not blinded by Obama's light says. Count me as surprised as hell. You know, if you spent every single moment of every single day from this one till your last looking fanatically for a single 'care' that I had as to whether or not you believed or doubted something I said, it would be a futile adventure on your end. But just for entertainment value, what numbers do you doubt exactly? And what do you base this doubt on?
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  13. #192
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Sad how we forget. If conservatives are such big balled warriors, how is it you and your ideology loses over and over again in the face of such weakness?

    Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW2 and all of the other failed dictatorships, the enlightenment and the progress of science (intelligent design? helloooo, EPIC FAIL), civil rights, women's rights (especially to vote), gay rights, worker's rights...how many more?

    and I doubt your numbers.
    edit: just noticed you were from Boston!

    Most military are actually Republicans (source)- tradition, conservatism, patriotism, religion, discipline, order, dislike of the new, the different, change, and all that. Same mindset.

    Note that SG isn't advocating using debate or argument or elections to make the world comfortable for himself. I believe he's ex-military, as are some of the right-wingers here. And although I thank them all for their service to the country, sedition and treason isn't going to solve any problems. Strange to be advocating killing one's own countrymen over giving them healthcare.

  14. #193
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Note that SG isn't advocating using debate or argument or elections to make the world comfortable for himself.
    There is a time for talk and a time for action. Liberals have done a really good job placing the poor, ignorant, and idealistic firmly under the government boot in order to better control their voting come ballot box time. Those types are impossible to change in the arena of ideas. Logic and reason be damned. Regardless of how many of the like Obama is able to firmly control in the ballot box, I will be no one's de-facto slave.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    I believe he's ex-military
    I'm a FORMER Marine. The only thing I am an 'ex' of is an ex-husband...thank God.


    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    sedition and treason isn't going to solve any problems.
    The winners decide what to call the actions we will end up taking to restore Liberty and Freedom to this country from underneath the shackles of oppression and de facto slavery. If we would have lost the American revolution, all of the Founders would have been declared, tried, and executed as seditious, traitorous wretches. But they won and they are recorded in history as great heroes / patriots etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Strange to be advocating killing one's own countrymen over giving them healthcare.
    Do you have fun trying to marginalize the oppositions arguments so dramatically? Is it a challenge to see exactly how much you can do that to any particular argument? I guess it can be fun. Maybe I should try it. By the by, I had healthcare before you graced me by "Giving it to me" just now, my premiums nearly doubled along with my deductible. Thanks a lot for that.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  15. #194
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post

    LOL, you aren't REALLY suggesting that Liberals won these wars, are you?

    Liberal ideology, certainly. How about liberal leaders, FDR, Lincoln. Is the democratic party advocating for nullification? I don't think so. Lincoln created the land grant colleges...SOCIALISM! Jefferson created the University of Virginia and believed that everyone should have a FREE education...that COMMUNIST!

    Yeah, no, you "traditionalists" would still have us under the headman, the King.

    ---------- Post added at 03:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post

    Epic fail of what exactly?
    Your war on science. Ask Galileo or Copernicus about it, or look up the Scopes money trail...ID taught as science failed, you lost.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  16. #195
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Liberal ideology, certainly.
    LMAO! Well, at least you are good for a cheap laugh occasionally. Anything else you want to give Liberal ideology credit for? Perhaps credit for the world being flat?


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Your war on science. Ask Galileo or Copernicus about it, or look up the Scopes money trail...ID taught as science failed, you lost.
    Who is this "Your" you are referring to?
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  17. #196
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    You Liberals sure are the 'Working man's friend' nothing like being a buddy who dramatically rises your healthcare costs, taxes the hell out of you, and indebted you several trillions of dollars without any means to ever pay it back, and then spits in your face by making it more difficult to not be apart of a union if you dont want to be, makes it harder for you to achieve wealth and success, and tells you all the time that you aren't doing your fair share. What a pal Liberals have been to the working man.

    Who's raising healthcare costs? Who sets those rates? Oh, yeah, that'd be the for profit insurance companies and hospitals.

    And indebted several trillion dollars? Hellooo, that's all the supposedly fiscally conservative republicans fault and Reaganomics.

    Yeah, and the minimum wage, forty hour work week, overtime, pensions, work place safety, ending child labor, the list goes on and on. Pals, indeed, providing so much to so many who are ungrateful.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  18. #197
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    There is a time for talk and a time for action. Liberals have done a really good job placing the poor, ignorant, and idealistic firmly under the government boot in order to better control their voting come ballot box time. Those types are impossible to change in the arena of ideas. Logic and reason be damned. Regardless of how many of the like Obama is able to firmly control in the ballot box, I will be no one's de-facto slave.
    What the heck are you talking about? How is ensuring children get fed a good meal every day removing their rights to think how they wish? There are Republicans under all these entitlement programs too (source) so it's nonsense that this is happening.

    And how does that make you any kind of slave rather than a appropriately contributing member of society?

    I'm a FORMER Marine. The only thing I am an 'ex' of is an ex-husband...thank God.
    Apologies, I stand corrected. Thank you for your service. Just don't turn your gun at me - I'm just a weedy nerd. I only win arguments not fist fights.
    On that note: Do you actually feel zero obligation to the poor, or the elderly or the downtrodden, the weak or anyone that isn't doing well in life? If so, why did you bother signing up in the first place to defend the country?


    The winners decide what to call the actions we will end up taking to restore Liberty and Freedom to this country from underneath the shackles of oppression and de facto slavery. If we would have lost the American revolution, all of the Founders would have been declared, tried, and executed as seditious, traitorous wretches. But they won and they are recorded in history as great heroes / patriots etc.
    I'm sure Timothy McVeigh thought the same too.


    Do you have fun trying to marginalize the oppositions arguments so dramatically?
    Did you not pay attention to the last three weeks? That was all over ObamaCare - first defunding, then delaying, then ridding medical device tax and finally we get to ensure people report their income properly when applying for medical insurance (even though it could be matched up at the end of the year during tax time)!
    You guys literally shut down the government and threatened to default over providing health insurance to poor people. There's no hyperbole there - it's actually factually what happened!

    Which is un-Constitutional anyway (14th Amendment: Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned). So can you guys shut up about loving the Constitution so much now?

    Is it a challenge to see exactly how much you can do that to any particular argument? I guess it can be fun.
    And yes, it's fun to point out bizarre inconsistencies in Republican-Think - it's to make sure that you guys know that you sound ridiculous. Secondly, it's not really that hard - for some reason there happens to be a lot of examples to draw from **cough** Tea Party **cough**.

    Maybe I should try it.
    I wish you would - it's dull being perfect all the time.

    By the by, I had healthcare before you graced me by "Giving it to me" just now, my premiums nearly doubled along with my deductible. Thanks a lot for that.
    Well, perhaps you should sign onto the exchange as see what the alternatives are. I bet you're being screwed by your insurance company - they tended to do that before ObamaCare. It's at http://healthcare.gov and should be running fine since it's the middle of the night. Please report back!

  19. #198
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    LMAO! Well, at least you are good for a cheap laugh occasionally. Anything else you want to give Liberal ideology credit for? Perhaps credit for the world being flat?
    Are you saying that liberals espouse a belief in a divinely ordained headman with supreme power such as Imperial Japan, The Furer, King of England, etc. etc.?

    ---------- Post added at 04:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    Who is this "Your" you are referring to?
    I'm sure it isn't liberals arguing to have religion taught as science. That's your side.

    ---------- Post added at 04:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    edit: just noticed you were from Boston!

    Most military are actually Republicans (source)- tradition, conservatism, patriotism, religion, discipline, order, dislike of the new, the different, change, and all that. Same mindset.
    I would disagree that they have any type of exclusive claim to any of those, especially patriotism, religion, discipline, and order.

    That isn't what that article says. It does say that the military is biased in its recruiting.
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I would disagree that they have any type of exclusive claim to any of those, especially patriotism, religion, discipline, and order.
    Not exclusive claim to those qualities but Republicans tend to wear it on the sleeve more. They seem to be more rigid in their thinking, or more 'fundamentalist' or literal in how they interpret or see the world. I'm not sure what it is but the Republicans I interact with on a daily basis are very different from Liberals. There's a constant disparagement of people that are different whereas Liberals tend to embrace it more. I don't know; there's definitely differences. I'll have to do more research.

    That isn't what that article says. It does say that the military is biased in its recruiting.
    It does, near the bottom:

    The independent Military Times newspapers conducted an voluntary survey among its members that shows them supporting Romney over Obama by a greater than 2-to-1 margin. But the newspaper’s subscribers are older and more senior in rank than the military as a whole, and the fact that it’s a self-selected sample can further distort its findings.
    Indeed, there has been a conservative drift among U.S. military officers since the draft ended. In a 2009 survey of 4,000 Army officers, Heidi Urben, an active-duty officer and doctoral candidate at Georgetown University, found that between 1976 and 1996, the share of senior military officers identifying itself as Republican jumped from one-third to two-thirds, while those claiming to be moderates fell from 46% to 22%.


    Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/05...#ixzz2i3mzKyiD

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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Gov shut down, bad in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Are you saying that liberals espouse a belief in a divinely ordained headman with supreme power such as Imperial Japan, The Furer, King of England, etc. etc.?
    You espouse a belief in Great Leader who in your eyes is a divinely ordained headman. His name is Obama. And if he told you to worship these other cats you have listed above, you would. What's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I'm sure it isn't liberals arguing to have religion taught as science. That's your side.
    What, exactly, is 'my side' ?


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I would disagree that they have any type of exclusive claim to any of those, especially patriotism, religion, discipline, and order.
    I wouldn't.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

 

 
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