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  1. #1
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    Mind Trapped by: Obama care - Poor role out evidence of lost Government?

    -Background-
    Obamacare is a controversial law, that has caused a lot of conflict within the gov. We went through a period where the Republicans were pushing so hard to have it stopped or at the very least delayed, that the gov shutdown. Now that, that fight has passed, Obamacare has rolled out in a catastrophic failure of a start. It seems to me that the poor roll out of Obamacare is evidence to any objective observer would say deserved a delay.


    - Position-
    This leads to the question,
    Question to opponent. Was our officials so pre-occupied with defending and attacking the other PARTY, that they failed to make the appropriate compromise?
    What should have occurred is the republicans pushing to delay, and the dems saying that was a good idea given the program wasn't ready to be rolled out.
    As it was Dem's couldn't afford to have the republicans win in anyway on the issue of delay, and so they were willing to ignore problems with the program.


    The point is not about republicans being right, or democrats being wrong. It is that the gov failed to address a real problem. Honestly, this is a very small problem for gov to be handling, and if they can't do that right or effectively (IE deal with problems) something is very wrong.

    I suggest it is with the preoccupation for destroying the opposition party, and not a preoccupation with serving the people, thus the gov has lost it's focus on it's purpose.

    DISCUSS!!
    To serve man.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Mind Trapped by: Obama care - Poor role out evidence of lost Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Obamacare has rolled out in a catastrophic failure of a start.
    How do you define catastrophic?

    The republican objection to Obamacare wasn't that they weren't ready for the implementation but rather that it shouldn't be implemented at all. Sounds like you're trying to make lemonade with the lemons they were handed for causing an unnecessary shutdown.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #3
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    Re: Mind Trapped by: Obama care - Poor role out evidence of lost Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    How do you define catastrophic?
    A very bad roll out.
    It is just a word to express how bad the roll out was/is.
    Do you disagree that it was bad, or is it just the particular word used that you don't like?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    The republican objection to Obamacare wasn't that they weren't ready for the implementation but rather that it shouldn't be implemented at all.
    Yes, then when they couldn't get that they tried for delay. .. so?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Sounds like you're trying to make lemonade with the lemons they were handed for causing an unnecessary shutdown.
    No.. don't confuse this for a defense of Republicans.
    They happened to be right about the need for a delay, but for the wrong reasons.
    And the Dem's were against the delay, but for the wrong reasons.

    They were so busy fighting each other, that the people are the ones that suffer.

    Can you see the point? This thread is not about the shutdown.
    To serve man.

  5. #4
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    Re: Mind Trapped by: Obama care - Poor role out evidence of lost Government?

    I think its crystal clear that the roll-out of the AFK sucked in places where it really needed not to suck. And it's done far more damage to the president's credibility than the Republicans managed to do.

    I suspect that so much attention was paid to the politics and making sure it got out on time that not enough diligence was taken to ensure the system worked properly before going live with it. While it's embarrassing to ship late (and I've been there personally) its far more embarrassing to ship on time with a product that sucks (and I've been there personally as well).

    Mind you in business, sometimes the former is better than the latter, it kind of depends on the competition. Sometimes embarrassment is acceptable, but I think in this situation it was not a good idea. Apparently the contractors (according to themselves) warned there wasn't enough testing. I'm not sure if that is them covering their ass or being honest.

    Software is hard to make, especially on that scale. Lots can go wrong and I've seen hardly any projects finish on their projected time lines. Mind you that is often because few projects set realistic time lines but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

    But I'm not trying to make excuses for them, just pondering what kind of disaster led to the public facing one.

    So I'd say the political pre-occupations probably share some of the blame, I imagine failed project management shares another part, and finally there is likely some management fault in rushing this to the finish line due to political face (which was ill served ultimately by doing so).

    Its certainly a black eye on the Obama administrations efficacy.
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  7. #5
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    Re: Mind Trapped by: Obama care - Poor role out evidence of lost Government?

    @Sig, I generally agree with everything you have said here, but I would like your thoughts on this question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    Mind you in business, sometimes the former is better than the latter, it kind of depends on the competition.
    How do you think the competition element plays here?

    Is it competition between Obamacare and the private sector. (IE you can successfully sign on to dozens of private agencies and successfully/ accurately purchase or enroll in health-insurance.)
    Or is it competition between Obamcare and the republican push to stop it (IE It's poor start reinforces the idea that the task is out of the gov league to implement)
    or is it competition between Obamacare and the promise of Obamacare (IE People were promised lower healthcare costs, among other things, and are comparing it to what they had in mind)
    To serve man.

  8. #6
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    Re: Mind Trapped by: Obama care - Poor role out evidence of lost Government?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    How do you think the competition element plays here?
    Q: Is it competition between Obamacare and the private sector. (IE you can successfully sign on to dozens of private agencies and successfully/ accurately purchase or enroll in health-insurance.)

    A: I don't think so. The exchanges sell private insurance and presumably you can buy them outside of using the exchange. Its just the exchange offerings are organized in a certain way and guarantee they meet the coverage mandate. A lot of companies have dropped their policies that don't meet the mandate coverage all together.

    The system is basically supposed to help you shop for private insurance that meets a given standard. So really there is no actual competition except perhaps who can provide better shopping services. (and we now know that's no contest )

    Q: Or is it competition between Obamcare and the republican push to stop it (IE It's poor start reinforces the idea that the task is out of the gov league to implement)

    A: Yes to this one. I think its clear that the two parties have made this issue a key battleground and while one side is trying to prove its a brilliant idea, the other is trying to prove it's a disaster of epic proportions. Up until the roll out I think the Dems were narrowly winning that since there were no signs of disaster, but the tide has shifted a bit with no effort from the GOP, heck if anything they distracted from it with their shutdown business.

    I suspect it was rushed a bit because they really wanted to show what a huge success it would be but what they ended up doing is drinking their own Coolaid. I've seen what happens in a company when an executive is hot and eager to release a product and they hear two messages. One from a technician telling them its not ready, and another from a middle manager telling them it is ready. They will go with the person saying what they want to hear or hope to hear most of the time. While you can't always just go with the pessimistic view, you really screw yourself when you let your desire influence who you listen to and what you believe. I'm guessing that is what happened here.

    Q: or is it competition between Obamacare and the promise of Obamacare (IE People were promised lower healthcare costs, among other things, and are comparing it to what they had in mind)

    Possibly. I think this is really tangled up in the politics. Obamacare is supposed to save money long term by making care more efficient. Less people in emergency rooms and less preventable diseases among those who otherwise would be uninsured an unable to pay but get seen anyhow.

    I'm sure there was some pie in the sky thinking that policy coverage would go down, and I suppose its sort of possible if you hold exact policy coverage the same. But that is nearly impossible since no one covered pre-existing conditions and few covered as much routine care as the new laws call for. Insurance that covers more costs more so anyone thinking it would lower premiums was guilty of that very optimistic thinking I was talking about.

    But still, some were sold on the idea and they were rightly attacked on it. You've seen me argue about insurance cost but I'm just shooting down the idea that somehow insurance is inflated only because its state offered and not because it you are simply buying a lot more coverage than you did before. I know my plans cover way more than they used to (and no shocker they cost more).

    I think all around not a ton of folks really understand the legislation, how it came about, what its supposed to do, or why. I think if you do its kind of straight forward and neither a miracle of modern legislation that will solve our health care problems nor an epic disaster that will destroy America as we know it. In truth it's a hodge-podge that addresses only a few of the very many challenges we face as a society with regards to health care. And how well it addresses them remains to be seen.

    I think an area where the critics may be proven out is it simply is ineffective in getting people who are young and healthy to bother signing up for insurance. Personally I'll watch for a year and look at the numbers and that should be telling if its on a track to meet its goals or a huge bust.
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