Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Results 1 to 20 of 661

Threaded View

  1. #10
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Southern California
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Increasing the Minimum Wage hurts those most vulnerable in our society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch347 View Post
    I think this is undoubtedly the case, it just depends on time horizons as you mentioned. We did see something similar with bonuses and pay increases following the decrease in corporate tax rates last year. It seems likely that something similar would happen here, though certainly less flashy and over a longer period of time.

    Sure, the relevant questions from my chair are; 1) how much of that additional value accrues to the worker vs. the owner vs. other capital investments? IE if that additional $1.10 is the result of a new machine that makes the laborer more efficient, shouldnít the owner of the capital used to buy that machine get a portion of that $1.10?
    2) Far more importantly, imo, who makes that decision? Do the parties involved in the transaction make that decision? Or do we, who have far less knowledge of the details and are operating under some veil of rational ignorance interject ourselves to make that decision?

    Iím pretty sure Iíve trotted out my favorite Thomas Sowell quote here a couple of times so Iíll spare you, but I completely agree with this sentiment.
    The point of this thread, and almost all of my participation is to establish what those trade-offs are. If individuals want to pick one side of the trade off vs the other, that is a subjective value judgement (though we can have some discussion about the morality involved).
    Having that kind of discussion would be something that hasnít yet occurred in this thread. Starting with an agreement that there is a trade off, why would someone pick one alternative over the other? All weíve had so far (not including you of course) is generally the denial that there really is a trade off.

    Perhaps, though I think this is a fatal conceit of econometrics. It isnít so much lack of data as it is category of data. It is really hard to apply statistical techniques to subjective measurements. There are a host of people out there who do try that though (I encounter them a lot in my role in marketing) so it isnít as if there is some kind of consensus of impossibility.
    The problem with understanding that type of data here is that the result must, (almost by definition) be a nearly one size fits all response. Those factors might fit company X well and could result in a more efficient economic outcome, but result in a deadweight loss for company Y with the same factors. I donít think we have a good record of economic coordination of this sort.

    Fair reminder (I tend to get wrapped into the details of my response, sorry). As I hinted at above, this is, by far, the most cogent defense of the MW Iíve encountered (not just here, but elsewhere) that doesnít involve invoking monopsony power. You could be right about the net effect of a hyper targeted wage law being positive. There are two major factors imo:
    1) Do the factors to be measured actually result in economic deadweight loss? IE are we actually shifting the efficient frontier by correcting for these factors or are we just redistributing? For example, if the law resulted in a higher or more efficient use of capital it could be a net benefit. If it just shifts money from the equity owners to labor, it probably wonít.
    2) Can the government coherently manage such a program. I think you and I share a doubt on this issue. Iím not sure any governmental program could effectively manage the scope and data requirements of such an effort, let alone not let political, social, and corruption influence their application.
    I think we agree on many of the major points here. There is some disagreement on whether MW could be effectively calculated, but we both share a pretty high level of distrust for the government which would enact such a plan. Anyhow, I appreciate the conversation. Probably best to leave it here for now.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.



Similar Threads

  1. Minimum wage is better than nothing
    By Wolf Myth in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: June 28th, 2010, 10:50 AM
  2. Welfare vs. Minimum Wage
    By KevinBrowning in forum Politics
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: April 3rd, 2007, 01:59 AM
  3. Minimum Wage Hike?
    By market state in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: December 7th, 2006, 08:02 PM
  4. Minimum Wage
    By Dr. Gonzo in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: September 14th, 2006, 06:27 PM
  5. Minimum Wage
    By emtee10 in forum General Debate
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: October 22nd, 2004, 07:18 PM


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts