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  1. #1
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    Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    For now, the simple assertion of this thread is that Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Why?

    Because, such a dish deserves to be cooked as well as it can be cooked. It should be prepared by the ultimate chef, by the man who bled and shed sweat and tears to climb up out of the abyss and rise with the light.

    But, because he did not cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, we must conclude that he did not exist.

    -----------------------------

    Can anyone tell me how the conclusion does not follow from the premise(s)?

    Can anyone tell me why any OTHER arguments regarding the historicity of Jesus have absolutely nothing to do with the claims made in this opening post?

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  3. #2
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    For now, the simple assertion of this thread is that Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Why?

    Because, such a dish deserves to be cooked as well as it can be cooked. It should be prepared by the ultimate chef, by the man who bled and shed sweat and tears to climb up out of the abyss and rise with the light.

    But, because he did not cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, we must conclude that he did not exist.

    -----------------------------

    Can anyone tell me how the conclusion does not follow from the premise(s)?

    Can anyone tell me why any OTHER arguments regarding the historicity of Jesus have absolutely nothing to do with the claims made in this opening post?
    The central problem with your OP is that Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce likely didn't exist during the period that Jesus was supposed to have existed. Try again!

  4. #3
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    The central problem with your OP is that Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce likely didn't exist during the period that Jesus was supposed to have existed. Try again!
    Nonsense. Snappers and chilies and limes have existed for many thousands of years. Yet Jesus didn't make the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce. Therefore he did not exist.

    That's how it works, right?

  5. #4
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    The central problem with your OP is that Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce likely didn't exist during the period that Jesus was supposed to have existed.
    This is a classic Red Herring. Jesus could have invented Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Try again!
    You're missing the obvious. We know from the feeding of the five thousand that Jesus served bread and fish. But where is the proof that he knew how to bake bread or cook the fish? I think it is obvious that Jesus did not know how to cook!
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    This is a classic Red Herring. Jesus could have invented Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce.
    If he did then there would be physical evidence of that or it would be a prominent dish. Since there is neither physical nor cultural evidence, the OP can be rejected.

    You're missing the obvious. We know from the feeding of the five thousand that Jesus served bread and fish. But where is the proof that he knew how to bake bread or cook the fish? I think it is obvious that Jesus did not know how to cook!
    I don't believe the Bible said he could cook at all - in the story, the fish and loaves were already in his possession. Though 5000 is not really the number of people since it was "5000 men, besides women and children". Oh, and the other gospels say it was "4000 men, besides women and children". Not sure which is true - I'd guess neither so this story needs to be rejected too.

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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    If he did then there would be physical evidence of that or it would be a prominent dish. Since there is neither physical nor cultural evidence, the OP can be rejected.
    That absence of evidence supports the op's claim that Jesus never prepared the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, which is supported by the absence of evidence that He could cook. There may have been a historical Jesus, but it is clear that Jesus The Chef is just a myth.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  9. #7
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    That absence of evidence supports the op's claim that Jesus never prepared the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, which is supported by the absence of evidence that He could cook. There may have been a historical Jesus, but it is clear that Jesus The Chef is just a myth.
    Firstly, there is no historical Jesus: I don't know what you mean by that.

    Jesus the Cook is most definitely a myth since there is no support for his existence.

  10. #8
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Jesus the Cook is most definitely a myth since there is no support for his existence.
    Exactly right. Because he didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, and probably couldn't even cook at all, he must not have existed. I'm glad you've seen the light.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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  12. #9
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Exactly right. Because he didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, and probably couldn't even cook at all, he must not have existed. I'm glad you've seen the light.
    Not quite - the recipe is not a reasonable thing to have him do since there is no corroborative proof he could cook.

    For example, would Jesus Christ be considered a deity if he didn't perform miracles?

  13. #10
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    For now, the simple assertion of this thread is that Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Why?

    Because, such a dish deserves to be cooked as well as it can be cooked. It should be prepared by the ultimate chef, by the man who bled and shed sweat and tears to climb up out of the abyss and rise with the light.

    But, because he did not cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, we must conclude that he did not exist.
    Indeed Snapper in Chile-lime sauce is the most delightful.
    I must concede to the superiority of your argument and reasoning skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by OP

    -----------------------------

    Can anyone tell me how the conclusion does not follow from the premise(s)?
    Nope, seems legit.

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    Can anyone tell me why any OTHER arguments regarding the historicity of Jesus have absolutely nothing to do with the claims made in this opening post?
    No clue, the reasoning seems so clear.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Can anyone tell me why any OTHER arguments regarding the historicity of Jesus have absolutely nothing to do with the claims made in this opening post?
    I just noticed something - what is this historicity of Jesus you talk about? Does that even exist?

    BTW: I see what you are trying to do but unfortunately, the best you can get out of this is the off-topic charge (which you don't have). Theists have still be been presenting false evidence and smuggling reality and religion together. As you appear to be doing too.

  16. #12
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Not quite - the recipe is not a reasonable thing to have him do since there is no corroborative proof he could cook.
    Well, there's no reason to think that he couldn't cook. I mean, he did feed all those folks bread and fish. Then there was the water into wine business. I mean, the guy hung out with fishermen for goodness sake.

    Then there was Luke 21:

    8 The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.
    9 When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.
    10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.”
    11 So Simon Peter climbed back into the boat and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.
    12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.
    13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish."

    So he was cooking fish with fire, but it wasn't exactly the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, now was it?

    Therefore, he did not exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    For example, would Jesus Christ be considered a deity if he didn't perform miracles?
    Woah, woah, woah. Slow down there, Hoppy.

    We're not talking about what miracles have to do with his existence. We're talking about what his cooking skills have to do with it. I mean, jumping from cooking to performing miracles (two very different things) would be like jumping from, say, Jesus himself writing to all sorts of other stuff unrelated to his writing (or lack thereof) and drawing conclusions about his existence based on those other things. And that's just silly.

    Let's stick with the very important issue of cooking for now, huh?

    ---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    BTW: I see what you are trying to do but unfortunately, the best you can get out of this is the off-topic charge (which you don't have). Theists have still be been presenting false evidence and smuggling reality and religion together. As you appear to be doing too.
    Goodness. You ARE all over the map, aren't you? Tsk tsk... Please do try to stick to the very important issue of Jesus not cooking the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, and how his failure to do that means he did not exist.

  17. #13
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    Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Well, there's no reason to think that he couldn't cook. I mean, he did feed all those folks bread and fish. Then there was the water into wine business. I mean, the guy hung out with fishermen for goodness sake.

    Then there was Luke 21:

    8 The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.
    9 When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.
    10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.”
    11 So Simon Peter climbed back into the boat and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.
    12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.
    13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish."
    None of this shows he had cooking skills. It only shows he had distribution skills - redistributing someone else's wealth by the looks of it.

    So he was cooking fish with fire, but it wasn't exactly the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, now was it?

    Therefore, he did not exist.
    Yes but you keep ignoring that the recipe doesn't exist either. That's the problem with your poor analogy.

    Woah, woah, woah. Slow down there, Hoppy.

    We're not talking about what miracles have to do with his existence. We're talking about what his cooking skills have to do with it. I mean, jumping from cooking to performing miracles (two very different things) would be like jumping from, say, Jesus himself writing to all sorts of other stuff unrelated to his writing (or lack thereof) and drawing conclusions about his existence based on those other things. And that's just silly.
    Yes we are because your brought his historicity Into play. So are you talking about the human Jesus or the deity Jesus in this discussion?

    Let's stick with the very important issue of cooking for now, huh?
    Sure. I'll play along but you are ignoring some very important points - namely that the recipe didn't exist and therefore unreasonable. Whereas there are other qualities that are.


    Goodness. You ARE all over the map, aren't you? Tsk tsk... Please do try to stick to the very important issue of Jesus not cooking the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce, and how his failure to do that means he did not exist.
    There are too many holes in the OP but I'll slow down for you. See above - I need to know what you mean by historic Jesus and that the recipe didn't exist at the time.

  18. #14
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    None of this shows he had cooking skills. It only shows he had distribution skills - redistributing someone else's wealth by the looks of it.
    Uh, no. The verses clearly say they saw a fire there with Jesus, and he was cooking. But in your defense, I didn't make that clear. My bad. Here:

    John 21:

    4 Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.

    5 He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?” “No,” they answered.

    6 He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.

    7 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water.

    8 The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.

    9 When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread."

    I think it's pretty unreasonable to say that Jesus wasn't there cooking fish. Maybe one could imply that he was using someone else's fire, but that would be a bit of a leap given the fact that text neither says nor implies such a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Yes but you keep ignoring that the recipe doesn't exist either. That's the problem with your poor analogy.
    Sure it does. Here it is right here: http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/s...en-chile-limon (note the extra-biblical quality of the source )

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Yes we are because your brought his historicity Into play.
    Nope. We're just talking about his cooking skills and how that relates to his non-existence. Please see the OP for the context of this thread. Miracles aren't anywhere in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    So are you talking about the human Jesus or the deity Jesus in this discussion?
    I'm just talking about Jesus.

    Look, think of it like this:

    There's Abraham Lincoln, and there's Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter.

    Now, there might be all kinds of problems with either of them, but in a debate about whether Abraham Lincoln existed, if I were to assert "But vampires don't exist" as proof that he didn't exist, that would be fallacious. It might have some bearing on whether "Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter" exists, but not Abraham Lincoln in general.

    So let's stick with "Jesus" for now, waddaya say?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Sure. I'll play along but you are ignoring some very important points - namely that the recipe didn't exist and therefore unreasonable. Whereas there are other qualities that are.
    How do you know it didn't exist? I'm afraid that you'll have to make your case there, JJ. I can't just take your word for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    There are too many holes in the OP but I'll slow down for you.
    That's very kind of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    See above - I need to know what you mean by historic Jesus and that the recipe didn't exist at the time.
    By "Jesus" I mean Jesus, period. Again, not "Jesus Vampire Hunter". Just Jesus. And as far as the recipe is concerned, again, I'm afraid I'll need you to support that it didn't exist. And after you do that, you'll need to demonstrate how the non-existence of the recipe means that it was impossible for Jesus to have prepared such a meal at some point in his life. After all, such a fine dish deserves to be prepared by someone as great as Jesus.

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  20. #15
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    Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Uh, no. The verses clearly say they saw a fire there with Jesus, and he was cooking. But in your defense, I didn't make that clear. My bad. Here:

    John 21:

    4 Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.

    5 He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?” “No,” they answered.

    6 He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.

    7 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water.

    8 The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.

    9 When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread."

    I think it's pretty unreasonable to say that Jesus wasn't there cooking fish. Maybe one could imply that he was using someone else's fire, but that would be a bit of a leap given the fact that text neither says nor implies such a thing.
    At best that says that Jesus had good fish sense and disguise skills but his culinary repertoire seems to be limited to fish and bread and most certainly not what you describe. In addition, since the Bible states that Jesus didn't cook AND he was unrecognized, the Gospel can't be taken as reliable.

    None of this supports your OP in any way. Jesus' proximity to fish and bread seems like a fabrication unless that's all they had to eat.

    Sure it does. Here it is right here: http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/s...en-chile-limon (note the extra-biblical quality of the source )
    Yes, but there is no magical appearance of thousands of fish in the recipe so it cannot be taken as being the same thing.

    You are merely using a standard technique of Christian 'historical scholarship' where finding external references that only peripherally refer to something in the Bible and claim it as evidence.


    You might as well say Santa exists because there are extra-fable references to him. It's fallacious when Christians do it and fallacious when you do it for the same reason.

    Nope. We're just talking about his cooking skills and how that relates to his non-existence. Please see the OP for the context of this thread. Miracles aren't anywhere in there.
    Who is this he?

    I'm just talking about Jesus.
    Jesus Smith or what? Are you not taking about Jesus Christ, miracle maker but some other fictional character?

    Look, think of it like this:

    There's Abraham Lincoln, and there's Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter.

    Now, there might be all kinds of problems with either of them, but in a debate about whether Abraham Lincoln existed, if I were to assert "But vampires don't exist" as proof that he didn't exist, that would be fallacious. It might have some bearing on whether "Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter" exists, but not Abraham Lincoln in general.
    Ah, now I see your mistake. This is where we have to agree on what we are talking about. Theists, the ones offering up poor evidence, are talking about the Vampire Hunter. If you've been talking about the historical figure then you are talking about something else entirely that no-one other than yourself is seeing.

    That's why your analogy appears to be a good analogue of what's been going on in the other thread. You are arguing one thing and the other atheists and theists are arguing another - the magic Jesus (Vampire Hunter). But that is a big mistake. To theists, there is ONLY the Vampire Hunter. The OP clearly is talking about the magic Jesus. That's why you need to clarify who you're talking about.

    This is critical in debating theists - they take a bit of history and link it to their deity; when you agree the history exists they will claim it is evidence their deity exists. Note how in the other thread when challenged about their authorities behind their constant appeals to authority; they mix the two up. When they say historians believe in Jesus, they want you (atheists) think of the man but they mean the miracle worker. Note the multiple walk backs and amazement when one challenges wether those same historians also believe miracles. Of course not - that's crazy - yet that same evidence is used to support the existence of their miracle worker.

    Knowing that theists are talking about the Vampire Hunter, how can you claim that the President is one and the same if there are no independent sources to corroborate said Vampire Hunting adventures?

    So let's stick with "Jesus" for now, waddaya say?
    Sure, but you still haven't established whether you're talking about magic Jesus or not. I think you are but you need to say it.

    How do you know it didn't exist? I'm afraid that you'll have to make your case there, JJ. I can't just take your word for it.
    It's not in the Bible.

    That's very kind of you.
    You're welcome. It's overwhelming to be attacked from multiple angles. And I don't want to hurt all your feelings in one go. :-)

    By "Jesus" I mean Jesus, period. Again, not "Jesus Vampire Hunter". Just Jesus.
    I don't know who this just Jesus is. You have to be specific. You're quoting the Bible so I assume you are talking about the fictional character that performed miracles. Right?

    Just because you drop the 'Christ' portion it doesn't mean you are suddenly in reality land where a non magic Jesus could have existed. That's a wholly different character that we had been discussing in the other thread!


    And as far as the recipe is concerned, again, I'm afraid I'll need you to support that it didn't exist.
    It's not my burden to do so. It is yours.


    And after you do that, you'll need to demonstrate how the non-existence of the recipe means that it was impossible for Jesus to have prepared such a meal at some point in his life.
    Again, not my burden to prove.

    After all, such a fine dish deserves to be prepared by someone as great as Jesus.
    Agreed, the two seem to be a perfect match. A miraculous meal of thousands of fish and a beautiful sauce. But you have yet to prove the recipe to have existed in the first place - you're the one saying it existed for him to have made it.
    Last edited by JimJones8934; January 3rd, 2015 at 02:52 PM.

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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    At best that says that Jesus had good fish sense and a disguise skills but his culinary repertoire seems to be limited to fish and bread and most certainly not what you describe.
    Well, that's exactly my point. You said that there was no corroborative proof that he could cook, period. So I pointed to a recorded instance that says he did. Now, in an effort to show that he couldn't cook, period, you're saying that it didn't describe him cooking exactly the thing I pointed out that he didn't cook! Be careful. You're really close to Jonesing up this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    In addition, since the Bible states that Jesus didn't cook AND he was unrecognized, the Gospel can't be taken as reliable.
    The Bible says that Jesus never, ever cooked? Where?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    None of this supports your OP in any way. Jesus' proximity to fish and bread seems like a fabrication unless that's all they had to eat.
    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Yes, but there is no magical appearance of thousands of fish in the recipe so it cannot be taken as being the same thing.
    "Cannot be taken as the same thing"...??

    I'm happy to ignore the piece about hauling in a full net of fish if you like, but I'm really not sure what's so incredible about Jesus being seen with a fire on the beach. And anyway, what does that have to do with whether Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    You are merely using a standard technique of Christian 'historical scholarship' where finding external references that only peripherally refer to something in the Bible and claim it as evidence.
    Uh, no. You said "The recipe DOESN'T exist" (note the present tense). I only pointed out that it most certainly does. There's nothing more or less to it than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Who is this he?

    Jesus Smith or what? Are you not taking about Jesus Christ, miracle maker but some other fictional character?
    Just Jesus. It's not complicated, son.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Ah, now I see your mistake. This is where we have to agree on what we are talking about. Theists, the ones offering up poor evidence, are talking about the Vampire Hunter. If you've been talking about the historical figure then you are talking about something else entirely that no-one other than yourself is seeing.
    Think of him as the "Thomas Jefferson Bible" Jesus. Does that make it easier? I know how hard it can be to resist arguing for things that aren't in the OP, so maybe that will help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    It's not in the Bible.
    So what if it isn't? NASA isn't in the Bible either, but come to Houston and I'll drive you right up to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    It's not my burden to do so. It is yours.
    Hmmm... someone doesn't understand how the burden of proof works. See, the way it goes is that the person who makes the claim (in this case it's you claiming that the recipe didn't exist in the time of Thomas Jefferson Jesus) is burdened with proving the claim. That's what "burden of proof" means.

    I've left it at that because you keep shifting the burden of proof to me for some very strange reason.

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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Well, that's exactly my point. You said that there was no corroborative proof that he could cook, period. So I pointed to a recorded instance that says he did. Now, in an effort to show that he couldn't cook, period, you're saying that it didn't describe him cooking exactly the thing I pointed out that he didn't cook! Be careful. You're really close to Jonesing up this thread.
    No, that instance didn't point that out at all. He could have magicked the fish cooked. That's not the same thing.
    I'm not saying he couldn't cook - I am saying you have no evidence he did. Since your OP relies on his cooking skills, it isn't valid.

    The Bible says that Jesus never, ever cooked? Where?
    It didn't say he did - I'm challenging your evidence. If I made that impression then I apologize I withdraw it.

    Huh?
    I mean that you're quoting the Bible out of context.


    "Cannot be taken as the same thing"...??

    Someone hasn't been paying attention...

    Jesus feeding the thousands with the fish (which I withdraw anyway because that sounds story like a load of nonsense) is a separate event from Jesus cooking for his disciples on the beach. I'm really not sure what's so incredible about Jesus being seen with a fire on the beach.
    The 5000 was already proven to be unreliable so there's no need to withdraw it. By thousands I also mean the ones Jesus made appear in the net.



    Uh, no. You said "The recipe DOESN'T exist" (note the present tense). I only pointed out that it most certainly does. There's nothing more or less to it than that.
    You're being a little pedantic for no gain - of course I don't dispute the recipe existing today! I've eaten it!

    I am saying doesn't exist in the Bible so I already know it's a fabrication - or rather, you haven't proven it to exist in the Bible yet. Just putting Jesus in the proximity of fish and fire is insufficient.

    Just Jesus. It's not complicated, son.
    It isn't simple either but if you refuse to say whether you are taking about magic Jesus or not then I don't see how we can continue without ending up discussing different things. It's why theists fizzle up when they have been exposed on this matter. Are you going to do the same and actually refuse to answer the question?

    Besides, you're already using the Bible as your reference so I have to take it that you're talking about the fictional character that performed all the miracles (two of which you have already quoted).

    Correct? You are referring to the Vampire Hunter right?


    Think of him as the "Thomas Jefferson Bible" Jesus. Does that make it easier? I know how hard it can be to resist arguing for things that aren't in the OP, so maybe that will help.
    A fiction on top of another fiction? Are you kidding me? Then you've answered your own question. That Jesus doesn't exist. Not even Christians believe in the TJB!


    So what if it isn't? NASA isn't in the Bible either, but come to Houston and I'll drive you right up to it.
    Of course it isn't - Houston didn't even exist at the time!



    Hmmm... someone doesn't understand how the burden of proof works. See, the way it goes is that the person who makes the claim (in this case it's you claiming that the recipe didn't exist in the time of Thomas Jefferson Jesus) is burdened with proving the claim. That's what "burden of proof" means.
    You are correct and I withdraw that claim. However, I maintain that you still have no proof that this is a fair test of Jesus' existence. In fact just like your reference to Houston, you appear to be hopping all over the place!

    Also, if we are talking about the TJB-Jesus then you have already conceded to a fictional version of a character that has no proof of existing anyway. So the question in the OP is moot.


    I've left it at that because you keep shifting the burden of proof to me for some very strange reason.
    All withdrawn. There is no need for me to offer other scenarios if you can't even prove the scenario is valid in the first place.

  24. #18
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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    ADDENDUM:

    You know what? I take back what I said about Thomas Jefferson Jesus.

    I'm talking about the Jesus of the Bible, as anyone and everyone interprets him; miracles, walking on water, fathered himself, etc. I'm even talking about the guy that supposedly did all that crazy **** some of the fringers say he did, like destroy Haiti because of gays and allowed 9/11 for the same reason.

    The fact that the super-uber-magical Jesus didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce means that super-uber-magical Jesus didn't exist. That is to say, we can know that super-uber-magical DID NOT IN FACT EXIST is BECAUSE he didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce.

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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    ADDENDUM:

    You know what? I take back what I said about Thomas Jefferson Jesus.
    Cheater :-()!


    I'm talking about the Jesus of the Bible, as anyone and everyone interprets him; miracles, walking on water, fathered himself, etc. I'm even talking about the guy that supposedly did all that crazy **** some of the fringers say he did, like destroy Haiti because of gays and allowed 9/11 for the same reason
    Cool. Now we are all on the same page!


    The fact that the super-uber-magical Jesus didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce means that super-uber-magical Jesus didn't exist. That is to say, we can know that super-uber-magical DID NOT IN FACT EXIST is BECAUSE he didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce.
    OK but you still have to demonstrate that the ingredients existed at that time and place and that this is what people cooked like that.

    Unless you can do so it is unfair to rest anyone's existence on such a challenge. It's like saying Jesus doesn't exist because He didn't visit Houston.

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    Re: Jesus should have cooked the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    No, that instance didn't point that out at all. He could have magicked the fish cooked. That's not the same thing.
    I'm not saying he couldn't cook - I am saying you have no evidence he did. Since your OP relies on his cooking skills, it isn't valid.
    My OP relies on him being "the ultimate chef". Jesus is uber-everything, including chefs. Therefore the fact that he didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce means that Jesus didn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    It didn't say he did - I'm challenging your evidence. If I made that impression then I apologize I withdraw it.
    You withdraw what? That the Bible doesn't say that Jesus didn't cook or that there's a problem with the evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    I mean that you're quoting the Bible out of context.
    How so? Please show this.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    The 5000 was already proven to be unreliable so there's no need to withdraw it. By thousands I also mean the ones Jesus made appear in the net.
    Well, like I say, I'm happy to ignore that bit if you are. It doesn't bear on any claim made in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    You're being a little pedantic for no gain - of course I don't dispute the recipe existing today! I've eaten it!
    Ummm, no. Words mean things, JJ. That you said the wrong thing is on you, not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    I am saying doesn't exist in the Bible so I already know it's a fabrication - or rather, you haven't proven it to exist in the Bible yet. Just putting Jesus in the proximity of fish and fire is insufficient.
    Well, it's not limited to fish and fire. If you can show some scholarly support that the verses offered mean anything other than 'Jesus was cooking some fish over a fire', I'd be really interesting in seeing it. Otherwise it's pretty plain to see that's what it means.

    [Reply shortened for the sake of brevity and to recognize that I've abandoned Thomas Jefferson Jesus in favor of super-uber-Jesus.]

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Of course it isn't - Houston didn't even exist at the time!
    ...

    JJ, you're claiming that because the Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce doesn't exist in the Bible, that it didn't exist at all. That something doesn't appear in the Bible doesn't mean that the thing doesn't exist at all. That's logic 101, man.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    You are correct and I withdraw that claim.
    Sounds good; thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    However, I maintain that you still have no proof that this is a fair test of Jesus' existence.
    Wait, I'm not claiming that Jesus existed. I'm claiming that he DIDN'T. Further, I'm claiming that we can KNOW he didn't BECAUSE he didn't cook the most delightful Snapper in Chile-Lime Sauce.

    Did you even read the opening post?

    ---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    OK but you still have to demonstrate that the ingredients existed at that time and place and that this is what people cooked like that.
    Why? Do you REALLY need to know that limes and snapper and chilies existed in the time of Jesus. Jesus can do anything! Hey, the book of Mormon said he visited the Americas around the time he was cooking the fish on the beach. Why couldn't he have picked up what he needed then! There's NO REASON AT ALL to think that he WOULDN'T have cooked such a deserving dish!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    Unless you can do so it is unfair to rest anyone's existence on such a challenge. It's like saying Jesus doesn't exist because He didn't visit Houston.
    Ah, ok. So what does the fact that he never wrote have to do with his existence?

 

 
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