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Thread: Death Row.

  1. #21
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    It can seem that way. There are no guarantees when we are born that we are coming into a sane environment. Fortunately, we are given the ability, I consider it a gift, to reason and use common sense which hopefully can drown out the insanity.
    How can you tell a sane action from an insane action? Why bother trying to drown out the insanity?

    Also congrats on your 3000th post
    abc

  2. #22
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    The whole thing rather blithely ignores the question of justice, which renders the entire exercise a meaningless waste of time.
    It seems a thinly veiled excuse to try and argue people should repent to god because we are all currently condemned with no other means of reprieve. Personally I find it kind of a power trip exercise as well. That said I like some good role playing so why not play along. Mind you I did find it an interesting challenge and was pleased when I came up with my fiends gambit.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  3. #23
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    It can seem that way. There are no guarantees when we are born that we are coming into a sane environment. Fortunately, we are given the ability, I consider it a gift, to reason and use common sense which hopefully can drown out the insanity.


    Actually, I think I know what may have happened. Your event took place in a parallel universe. In this universe, the governor stopped the execution – so, no worries, it all worked out. Popping in and out of universes can be a bit confusing and tricky at times until we get use to.


    Wait ... why can’t MyX exist outside of hell (whatever that may mean to you)? I thought this thread was about death row. If this thread is about hell --you haven't stated this in your OP– please define hell.
    Sorry, you seem to be jumping into the middle of other people's converations and ignoring the thread. If you want to take the thread into a parallel universe, why not start a new thread. I suppose I made a mistake to acknowledge Xenocide's attempt to replace the person who was executed under the states death penalty with himself as if that person had never been executed. It would have been more appropriate for Xenocide to comment about the condemned's rationale or my rationale, rather than to try to take the condemns place and force me to execute him. For the sake of your desire to take the thread into a parallel universe, me, the judge, simply states that now two persons have been executed for their crimes and you are free to create a new universe in a new thread.

    Case closed. (p.s. MyX obviously does exist outside of Hell, so obviously he can exist outside of Hell. Who said he can't? I'm glad he is here with us, and I'm glad you are here to defend him, and I really think you know what Hell is and I really think you are much smarter than to need me to define it for you. When you ask me to define "Hell", I have to believe you are trying to run me around on a rabbit trail. I think I've been clear enough in my use of the English language for you to understand what I have said. If you don't understand what you think I said, it's only because you don't realize that what I said is not what you heard)

    ---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    I think it's quite interesting that you chose not to disclose the crimes, and simply declared that the jury found me guilty and the sentence was death. Even more interesting, this entire scenario, including the piece about the father defending the child but ultimately agreeing with the court, agrees completely with cases in certain countries who operate under Sharia Law that execute women for adultery when they have been raped. The whole thing rather blithely ignores the question of justice, which renders the entire exercise a meaningless waste of time.
    I think it was pretty clear that the case was tried in the Untied States under the Us Constitution and went through all legally allowed appeals before the prisoner was executed.

    If you have a problem with the judgments of Sharia Law, you are arguing against that in the wrong thread.

    Several states have a death penalty in the USA, and the Supreme Court has upheld their right to execute that penalty after due process. The case in point of this OP was carried out totally under due process of constitutional law. The references of Gubernatorial or Presidential pardon, or an immediate action of the state legislature, and the many statments of all higher courts turning down all appeals and no more possibility of appeal made it clear that the penalty of death was exectuted in honor of justice for the crimes committed. It is my hope that the executed obtained pardon and forgiveness from God so he will not be imprisoned in Hell as he was imprisoned here on death row.

    The case was closed for good reason. Everybody had enough of it, exept for the accused who was trying to prolong it forever. My condolences to the families of the victims as well as to the family of the executed.

  4. #24
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    I think it was pretty clear that the case was tried in the Untied States under the Us Constitution and went through all legally allowed appeals before the prisoner was executed.
    On the contrary, it was not clear in the least. It was utterly unclear what judicial system you were talking about, and it was equally unclear what sort of crime you were talking about. The only thing that was clear was that I’d been found guilty of some crime (by a group of people who may or may not have any sort of moral sense), and no one except for some draconian judge was in a position to stay the execution. As I said, this is so vague that the question of justice is utterly eradicated.

  5. #25
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    I would argue that a slave labor camp should be erected and every person who is sentenced to death is given a choice: either die or spend the rest of your life as a slave providing almost free labor to the society you harmed.

    Pros:
    -If at a later date the person is found innocent because of new evidence it would be possible to free him. If he is dead that is not possible.
    -Society does not have to become a murderer. Only an accomplice to suicide.
    -A labor force is available to do the jobs in society no one wants to do for less than it costs to house, feed and cloth them.
    -The work camp provides jobs for members of the society.

    Cons:
    -You don't get revenge on the criminal.
    The guy only had ten days left to live at the start of the thread, after losing all appeals in the highest court that would hear any appeal. Only a Gubernatorial pardon or stay of execution forced by the legislature overturning the death penalty could have stopped the execution (or a Presidential pardon, but only political cronies get presidential pardons and this guy was no friend of the President).

    Your idea of a labor camp is much too complicated to get it through the legislature in less than ten days, and to make things worse for the accused, he lost more than 8 of those last ten days of his life due to threats he made in a attempt to make everybody afraid of executing him. The death penalty remains in force in several states. Maybe you can convince them to enact your labor camp plan.
    For the man executed here, it's too late. The case is closed.

  6. #26
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    The case is closed.
    Good.

    Perhaps now you will unveil the words that would have saved the criminals life? If indeed such words exist.
    abc

  7. #27
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    Good.

    Perhaps now you will unveil the words that would have saved the criminals life? If indeed such words exist.
    Done many times. Try to pay attention. Those words would have been a Gubernatorial or a Presidential pardon, or the overturn of state law regarding the death penalty. All appeals to higher courts failed, there was no longer anything the guy could say which could possibly win him a reprieve from his sentence. I really was simply hoping to see the convicted ask God for mercy. I believe it is still the practice at the time of execution for somebody to say to the convicted something like "may God have mercy on your soul". I really hope the guy is forgiven and pardoned by God and allowed to live forever in heaven. I'm sad to say the convicted in his final statements only added to his problems when judged by God, but still I preferr to believe he did not go to Hell though I'm afraid he did. It's not confusing or mysterious. It's all very simple. I'm really surprised anybody tried to argue the guy should not be executed after seeing how and why all of the appeals to higher courts failed.

  8. #28
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    Done many times. Try to pay attention. Those words would have been a Gubernatorial or a Presidential pardon, or the overturn of state law regarding the death penalty.
    Those aren't the words I was asking for. What I meant was if our roles were reversed, if I was the judge and you the criminal, then what would you have said? There must have been something someone could have said in response to the OP that would have resulted in you replying that the criminal was released. I am asking for those words.
    abc

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  10. #29
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    If you want to take the thread into a parallel universe, why not start a new thread. I suppose
    You created a philosophical hypothetical scenario of a man sentenced to death row and asked: "Why should he be allowed to live as long as he possibly can live while serving a life sentence rather than be executed at the court appointed time?"

    I responded to your question about why should the prisoner be allowed to live with a philosophical hypothetical (since you are presenting a philosophical hypothetical) that your death row scenario took place in a parallel universe, but in this universe/life, the circumstance happened a different way. In this universe it was a win/win. The prisoner had a change of heart (which it seems that's what your hypothetical OP wanted as an outcome anyway) and he did not get killed in this life, which is also another positive outcome. Your hypothetical could certainly have taken place in a different universe/ life, that is -- no new evidence was found; no change of heart; no one could save him; he got killed on death row -- but in this universe/life he had a change of heart; new evidence was discovered and he did not get killed. It's a hypothetical outcome.

    If you are going to create a philosophical hypothetical argument that you think there is only one or two possible outcomes–- in this case about a prisoner on death row and “why should that prisoner be allowed to live,” you're going to get some hypothetical responses to challenge your thinking.

    ---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    How can you tell a sane action from an insane action?
    Well, a person could start with something like this:

    Why bother trying to drown out the insanity?
    I guess that depends on what we want to grow and thrive. What we feed grows; what we starve dies.
    Last edited by eye4magic; February 11th, 2015 at 07:24 PM.
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  11. #30
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    Well, a person could start with something like this:
    I'm not asking how you tell if a person is sane or insane. I am asking how do you tell an insane action from a sane one. For example, is it sane or insane to talk to your dog about your taxes?
    abc

  12. #31
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    I will not directly name your crimes, but I will point out that the entire jury who found you guilty of a capital offense were unanimous in their decision as required for a death penalty to be executed in the state which holds you on death row.
    But I can't tell you what my plea would be until I know

    1. What crime I'm to be executed for
    2. Whether I actually committed that crime

    If, for example, the crime was so minor that it does not justifiably warrant the death penalty, my plea would be that one does not deserve death for committing the crime. If I did not actually commit the crime I would argue that I should not be executed for a crime I did not commit.

    So again, I can't tell you what my defense would be until I know those two things.

  13. #32
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    I'm not asking how you tell if a person is sane or insane. I am asking how do you tell an insane action from a sane one. For example, is it sane or insane to talk to your dog about your taxes?
    I don’t think talking to your dog about your taxes is insane -- after all, if you are using your dog for work, you may be using his/her expenses as a write off. However, if you hear your dog explain how to complete and file a Schedule C, in this world where dogs don’t get tax training, let alone don’t talk human language, that might be a sign of a mental issue outside the sane.
    Last edited by eye4magic; February 12th, 2015 at 05:29 PM.
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  14. #33
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    I don’t think talking to your dog about your taxes is insane -- after all, if you are using your dog for work, you may be using his/her expenses as a write off. However, if you hear your dog explain how to complete and file a Schedule C, in this world where dogs don’t get tax training, let alone don’t talk human language, that might be a sign of a mental issue outside the sane.
    What if your dog explains to you a previously unknown law of physics which turns out to be true?
    abc

  15. #34
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    Re: Death Row.

    Normal: You do your taxes
    Irrational: You talk to your dog about doing your taxes
    Insane: Your dog advises you how to do your taxes

    Verdict: Death sentence for you and your dog, but don't forget to repent to dog first. (mind you you could do some transposition on one of those words)
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  16. #35
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But I can't tell you what my plea would be until I know

    1. What crime I'm to be executed for
    2. Whether I actually committed that crime

    If, for example, the crime was so minor that it does not justifiably warrant the death penalty, my plea would be that one does not deserve death for committing the crime. If I did not actually commit the crime I would argue that I should not be executed for a crime I did not commit.

    So again, I can't tell you what my defense would be until I know those two things.
    Is this always your debate style? Ignore the OP, then try to make up an entirely different debate in which you set it up as impossible to pin you down with rationale?

    If you were the convicted in the case spelled out in the OP, which you are not, you already lost the right to ask any of these silly questions or take any of these positions such as "I'm not sure I actually committed the crime".
    All appeals failed, all arguments were heard and rejected by the highest court which would hear them, the limited time before your exectution makes it highly unlikely the state death penalty will be overturned and the utter failure of your case in all levels of the courts makes it highly unlikely that you would have gotten a pardon.

    Now, in this case, let's suppose you actually are one convicted awaiting execution. You only have one more day left. Tomorrow you are gone foreever, may God have mercy on your soul.

    ---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

    [QUOTE=eye4magic;544284]You created a philosophical hypothetical scenario of a man sentenced to death row and asked: "Why should he be allowed to live as long as he possibly can live while serving a life sentence rather than be executed at the court appointed time?"

    I responded to your question about why should the prisoner be allowed to live with a philosophical hypothetical (since you are presenting a philosophical hypothetical) that your death row scenario took place in a parallel universe, but in this universe/life, the circumstance happened a different way. In this universe it was a win/win. The prisoner had a change of heart (which it seems that's what your hypothetical OP wanted as an outcome anyway) and he did not get killed in this life, which is also another positive outcome. Your hypothetical could certainly have taken place in a different universe/ life, that is -- no new evidence was found; no change of heart; no one could save him; he got killed on death row -- but in this universe/life he had a change of heart; new evidence was discovered and he did not get killed. It's a hypothetical outcome.

    If you are going to create a philosophical hypothetical argument that you think there is only one or two possible outcomes–- in this case about a prisoner on death row and “why should that prisoner be allowed to live,” you're going to get some hypothetical responses to challenge your thinking.[COLOR="Silver"]


    If you didn't like the hypothesis of the OP, you could have stayed out of it. You tried to introduce a new hypothesis which had already been excluded by the OP and me, being the judge in this case, decided to pretty much ignore you as nothing more than just another publicity hungry lawyer trying to gain some recognition by making a stink over the execution of a convict on death row with no hope of reprieve other than for the state to overturn the death penalty of the Governor or President to issue a pardon. The parameters of the OP were clsarly spelled out and all you did was try to deny the OP completly and change the whole thread...and that's all you still are doing. It's turned to chidishness in the discussions of a few people simply because you don't like the OP from the start and you don't like the conclusion of the OP, which is that the man was executed and never showed any sign of being sorry for his crimes and never showed any sign that he cared if God would be merciful to him or not.

    My conclusion is the guy who was exectuted. My observations of his statements and behavior lead me to conclude with little doubt that the executed is burning in Hell and will be in the Lake of Fire throughout eternity. If you don't like it, well that's just too bad. That's the end of this thread.

    ---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    Those aren't the words I was asking for. What I meant was if our roles were reversed, if I was the judge and you the criminal, then what would you have said? There must have been something someone could have said in response to the OP that would have resulted in you replying that the criminal was released. I am asking for those words.
    If I were the criminal, I would have said I'm sorry for what I have done and I deserve to die. I also would have said that after carefully seeking God's mercy, I came to realize that He loved me so much He gave His Son to die in my place so that He can forgive me in His resurrection and I have receieved Him as my Saviour and I know I'm forgiven by God though I must suffer the consequences of my actions.

    That's what I would have said if I were the convict in this case.

    Now, going back to being the Judge after I heard the convicted say these things, what do you think I would say or do?

    ---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 PM ----------

    Keep watching, pay attenton, if you want to see how the convicts life was actually saved in the end of this case. You probably won't believe it, but the guy gets to live in the end. The case is closed but it's not over for the convict.


    By asking me to put words in the convicts mouth, the words I would have liked to hear him say from the start of the thread, you have extended the story. I thought I was going to have to abandon the thread and leave the guy to be burried and forgotten, but you have restored hope of seeing the man excused from his death sentence.
    Last edited by GodIsGood; February 13th, 2015 at 03:44 PM.

  17. #36
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    What if your dog explains to you a previously unknown law of physics which turns out to be true?
    If you're talking about our reality, I would take him/her to a veterinarian asap.
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  19. #37
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    If you're talking about our reality, I would take him/her to a veterinarian asap.
    why not take this conversation to PM where it belongs?

  20. #38
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    why not take this conversation to PM where it belongs?

    Good idea. MyX if you want to have further discussions about your physicist talking dog, feel free to start a new thread.

    ---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    That's the end of this thread.
    GIG, you are welcome to start threads on ODN, but that doesn't mean you can determine when a thread ends. You are free to stop posting to a thread that you started, but that doesn't mean other members can't or wont continue posting to the thread if they wish.
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  21. #39
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    Re: Death Row.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    Good idea. MyX if you want to have further discussions about your physicist talking dog, feel free to start a new thread.

    ---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------



    GIG, you are welcome to start threads on ODN, but that doesn't mean you can determine when a thread ends. You are free to stop posting to a thread that you started, but that doesn't mean other members can't or wont continue posting to the thread if they wish.
    Ok, so the thread does not end but it sure is trashed if it ignores the OP, isn't it? As long as I'm posting here, I'll try to keep the focus on the OP and if people are carrying on conversations unrelated to the OP, I'll have to say it would be nice if they would start a new thread with their own OP and/or take their conversations unrelated to the OP somewhere else.

    There is still a chance that I will show how the convicted in this case can have his life saved. All of the arguments against the carrying out of the execution were either invalid or insufficient to persuade the state legistlature to overturn the death penalty or to get the Governor or President to issue a pardon. The OP clearly stated all appeals were lost and there was no possible way for any further appeals to be accepted or heard by any court. One person tried to say it's not really happening according to the OP and can only be happening in a parallel universe therefore new evidence must be accepted to merit a stay of execution and another appeal. One person tried to say that many more would be killed if he was executed. One tried to say he welcomed execution as relief from this world, but then decided to go on a killing spree and escape; a thing only possible in his imagination.

    One person accepted that the case was closed and the execution fianlized, then asked if I would disclose what the person could have said to please the judge. I diclsoed that, then asked what do you suppose the judge will do or say now that the convict finally said the thing the judge was hoping to hear?

    One person in this thread showed enough interest to take it to this point. I had almost abandoned this thread except for that person. Had it not been for that person, I would have left this thread not have been able to care less about unrelated conversations in parallel universes. Most of the people who are watching this thread only seem to be saying the convicted could not possible really deserve to be executed, and they are trying to make a mockery of the proceeding. Only one person accepted the execution and asked how things could have turned out differently, and they could have if the convicted would have only said what I was hoping he would say before he was executed.

    I'm not far from abaonding this thread and for my own sake saying the thread has ended and then leave it to people who want to bury the OP so they can play around happily as if they defeated the OP.

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    Re: Death Row.

    I'm sorry for what I have done and I deserve to die. After carefully seeking God's mercy, I came to realization that He loves me so much He gave His Son to die in my place so that He can forgive me in His resurrection and I have receieved Him as my Saviour and I know I'm forgiven by God though I must suffer the consequences of my actions.
    abc

 

 
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