Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 41 to 47 of 47
  1. #41
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Location, Location
    Posts
    9,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Adults raised by same sex couples speak out against same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    The problem here is that we know not all sexual choices are equal. Yet, randomly apparently, when we actually apply this ... common sense ... the charge of bigotry gets tossed about. Homosexuality is NOT EQUAL to heterosexuality. Just like pedophilia or beastiality are NOT EQUAL to heterosexuality.
    This is the thing that I think gets so many people in a twist.

    Virtually every time someone who is not OK with homosexuality wants to compare it to something, they always compare it something like "bestiality" or "pedophilia". I mean, for goodness sake, no wonder they compare people who make such analogies to "bigots" and "racists" and so on. What if some group of people consistently compared your sexual orientation to that of child or animal rapists? It's just a careless and thoughtless comparison to make when speaking with someone. I think I'd probably take umbrage, too.

    So, I utterly disagree with your statement that 'Homosexuality is NOT EQUAL to heterosexuality in the same way that heterosexuality is not equal with pedophilia or bestiality'. Pedophilia and bestiality involves inflicting harm on/violating the rights of a being that does not/cannot give consent. Heterosexuality and homosexuality among consenting adults does NOT involve that. Homosexuality is not equal to pedophilia or bestiality in the same way that pedophilia or bestiality is not equal to heterosexuality.

  2. Likes mican333 liked this post
  3. #42
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,687
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Adults raised by same sex couples speak out against same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    The implication of your statement is quite clear.

    You are very clearly making this an issue of 'hating gays' vs 'not hating gays'.
    I was answering your question about why various cultures have repressed homosexuals throughout history. My answer was in no way a comment about my debate opponents.

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    You entered tat into the discussion, and, unless you think you are the sole person that qualifies - then I suggest you retract your statement - because the claim I actually made is that all too often the debate disintegrates in claims of bigotry.
    You do realize that we can go back a post and see what that claim you actually made is, right?

    So I went back to once again see the claim you actually made and it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    "And yet you cherry pick a SINGLE SENTENCE, ignoring context, and call your opponent a bigot?"
    So do you stand by that statement or do you retract it?

    And if you stand by it, please show me where I called my opponent an bigot.

    And if you concede I never called any of my debate opponents a bigot, have the decency to retract your accusation.

  4. #43
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    173
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Adults raised by same sex couples speak out against same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    This is the thing that I think gets so many people in a twist.

    Virtually every time someone who is not OK with homosexuality wants to compare it to something, they always compare it something like "bestiality" or "pedophilia". I mean, for goodness sake, no wonder they compare people who make such analogies to "bigots" and "racists" and so on. What if some group of people consistently compared your sexual orientation to that of child or animal rapists? It's just a careless and thoughtless comparison to make when speaking with someone. I think I'd probably take umbrage, too.

    So, I utterly disagree with your statement that 'Homosexuality is NOT EQUAL to heterosexuality in the same way that heterosexuality is not equal with pedophilia or bestiality'. Pedophilia and bestiality involves inflicting harm on/violating the rights of a being that does not/cannot give consent. Heterosexuality and homosexuality among consenting adults does NOT involve that. Homosexuality is not equal to pedophilia or bestiality in the same way that pedophilia or bestiality is not equal to heterosexuality.
    You can utterly disagree with it all you want - but if sexuality is just born that way - an immutable quality like skin color or gender, then guess what that makes all other forms of sexuality?

    IT'S ABOUT STANDARDS.
    Most people say that it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.

    Albert Einstein

  5. #44
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Location, Location
    Posts
    9,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Adults raised by same sex couples speak out against same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    You can utterly disagree with it all you want - but if sexuality is just born that way - an immutable quality like skin color or gender, then guess what that makes all other forms of sexuality?
    If sexuality is just born that way, then what are "all other forms"?

  6. #45
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    173
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Adults raised by same sex couples speak out against same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I was answering your question about why various cultures have repressed homosexuals throughout history. My answer was in no way a comment about my debate opponents.



    You do realize that we can go back a post and see what that claim you actually made is, right?

    So I went back to once again see the claim you actually made and it is:



    So do you stand by that statement or do you retract it?

    And if you stand by it, please show me where I called my opponent an bigot.

    And if you concede I never called any of my debate opponents a bigot, have the decency to retract your accusation.
    It's been supported.

    And here is more:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...usaolp00000592

    Do you see what the homosexual community is doing? It 'hatred' and 'bigotry'.

    Would you care to support your apparent disregard for this NOT happening? Or is tat a straw man? Much like your position.

    If you cannot support your argument with ... ahem ... NBC and studies that do exactly what I say they do ... then there really isn't much of an argument.

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading

    So we have ... ahem:

    #1 - randomly cherry picked sources form the internet - zero of which have been critically examined.

    #2 - a cheery picked quote from Regnerus - while systemically avoiding the findings (which happen to be the same as single parent households).

    #3 - the denial that what is clearly taking place within the homosexual community is not taking place. (But we made it a you statement - why don;t you go ahead and quote me saying YOU called me a bigot?)

    Actual evidence that you can replace a father or mother in a relationship? Zero.

    Generally speaking, when you are trying to convince someone they are wrong - you actually have to make the case they are wrong.

    Feel free to address the Regnerus findings or the children raised by homosexual parents. I'm sure you know better because you found some thing on google, whose author's premise, that homosexuals are better parents because they choose to become parents ... is laughable.

    So tell me, as a Christian how exactly can I condemn promiscuity and adultery but not homosexuality (or, say its not equal?)

    As for you challenge: #33

    Well, thanks for sharing your opinion on the matter, Christian guys. But I think your views might be based, at least in part, on your religious beliefs and therefore you are not looking at the issue objectively. But if you have scientific evidence from unbiased sources to back up your claims, let's see it.
    You've been dancing around it for some time sister. Own up to what you say and stop playing victim. Th appeal to emotionalism is noted, but false.
    Most people say that it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.

    Albert Einstein

  7. #46
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,687
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Adults raised by same sex couples speak out against same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    It's been supported.
    No, you never showed a post where I accused you of being a bigot.

    It's clear that will not have the decency to take back your false accusation but just not repeating it counts as a retraction here as well. So as long as you don't repeat it, you don't have to support it.




    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Do you see what the homosexual community is doing? It 'hatred' and 'bigotry'.
    Which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of your false accusation against me and will be ignored as such.


    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    You've been dancing around it for some time sister. Own up to what you say and stop playing victim. Th appeal to emotionalism is noted, but false.
    In that statement I said nothing about you nor called anyone a bigot. Suggesting one might have a bias is not to say that they are bigot. So that does not show that I called you a bigot.

    And I will state, with support, that you DID falsely accuse me of calling you a bigot. Since there is precedence of you complaining about being called a bigot when no one actually did, any arguments that you present about gays or their supporters calling people "bigots" will not be accepted unless you can provide solid support that it is happening. Your personal ability to accurately judge when such things are happening is in question.

    ------------

    As far as the Regnerus study goes, it draws no valid conclusions of the quality of parenting from a same-sex couple in a committed relationship as almost none of the subjects were raised by a same-sex couple in a committed relationship.

    "Major academic organizations including the American Sociological Association, American Academy of Pediatrics and American Medical Association dispute the validity of Regnerus' data and conclusions reached thereof, arguing that unlike previous studies, the statistically tiny number of same sex couples in a study whose sample group largely consisted of failed heterosexual marriages where one of the parents was allegedly homosexual, make it impossible to extrapolate any information about same sex parenting."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Re...ps_controversy

    So most of the subjects were children of opposite-sex couples whose marriages failed and it was alleged that at least one of the parents was gay. And the child didn't even necessarily end up living with the homosexual parent (assuming the parent even actually is homosexual) after the divorce.


    So this study offers NO significant insight on the quality of parenting from a committed same-sex couple.
    Last edited by mican333; April 8th, 2015 at 08:28 AM.

  8. #47
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Posts
    7,461
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Adults raised by same sex couples speak out against same sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    The problem here is that we know not all sexual choices are equal. Yet, randomly apparently, when we actually apply this ... common sense ... the charge of bigotry gets tossed about. Homosexuality is NOT EQUAL to heterosexuality. Just like pedophilia or beastiality are NOT EQUAL to heterosexuality.
    I give you the opportunity not to sound like a bigot and you go and double down on it by relating it to pedophilia and beastiality. Nice work gree but talking like that is what will get you called a bigot so you really only have yourself to blame at this point. My advice, embrace bigotry and be proud to think gays are lesser people because of their sexual preference.

    Things that are not the same are not the same, shocking I know, something basic math and logic are pretty good at sorting out. So ya, Homosexuality is not the same as Heterosexuality. We all knew that. What matters is whether or not it is in the realm of acceptible behavior in our society. Seeing as it causes no great special harm to anyone and in fact has a number of benefits for society we should probably accept it. I'll think of you as one until you recant that association.

    Pedophilia is the victimization of children so that we should not accept. Beastiality is often quite abusive to the animal in question sometimes to the person if they are quite foolish, and to top it off its pretty gross by my reckoning. Not sure it needs to be illegal but I'm not going to make a specific case for it to be so. Nor would anyone entertain the idea of a farm animal as a parent so its pretty moot for this discussion.

    When you are presented with academic, peer reviewed, passed an academic fraud investigation findings that indicate inequality in reality and have to make a emotional appeal to bigotry to essentially ignore what we know?
    You may well thing bigotry is good policy or supported by science. I seem to recall some rather famous bigots claiming science supported their conclusions. There are differences as I say, but the real question is whether they justify special discrimination or not. The bigot would say they do.

    You do realize that this information is known, like now? So when children are raised in these environments and encounter what we know is statistically probable, and our PC inability to acknowledge that not all choices are equal, prevents us from putting in safe guards against the KNOWN risks ... the children raised in these environments have every right to sue the government when these risks happen to them.
    Black people have higher rates of criminal behavior in the US... so by your logic we should put them all in jail to prevent that inevitable crime. Sorry but its not how a free people operate. You don't make individual judgements on peoples lives because they are part of a demographic. That is bigotry writ large. The proper way to treat human beings as individuals and on their individual merits and a moral principle I strongly believe in.

    Again, curiously avoided by the dissenting is are two main points:
    #1 - which is removable from a healthy relationship? The Father or the Mother?
    #2 - in single parentheses, the removal of one has a statistically significant risk ... which is oddly smilier to homosexual relationships.
    It doesn't matter Gree, that is what you fail to understand here. You don't control peoples families. **** happens. You could adopt a child to parents who end up beating them. Or they could get divorced. Or one of them could leave the marriage. Or the child could find a gun in the closet and kill himself. But what you can't do is judge a person just because they are gay they will be a bad parent. I've known gay couples with parents and their children were friends of mine and were perfectly well adjusted. I've also known straight parents who's kids were friends of mine and they were pretty mind ****ed by their awful parents. I'm sure there are bad gay parents out there and I'm sure there are some extra challenges growing up that way. But all and all its not enough to condemn the lives of good individuals over.

    Somehow, pointing this out if bigotry.
    No its not. Acting on it is bigotry. Calling gay people similar to dog ****ers and child molesters is bigotry. Get it straight. Mentioning that loving two parent mixed sex parents who don't do drugs, are well educated, and have good jobs, with extended family is ideal for kids is fine. Pointing out how discrepancies in all those can cause problems is fine. But judging who can and can't be a parent because of some statistics is not fine.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  9. Likes Dionysus, Gemini liked this post
 

 
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Similar Threads

  1. Should Gay Couples Be Permitted to Adopt Children?
    By Scarlett44 in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 285
    Last Post: September 21st, 2013, 12:19 PM
  2. Two Lesbians Raised a Baby and This is What They Got
    By Scarlett44 in forum Shootin' the Breeze / Off-Topic
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: December 8th, 2011, 08:52 AM
  3. Are incestuous couples being discriminated against?
    By Apokalupsis in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 287
    Last Post: January 9th, 2008, 09:13 PM
  4. Raised One Way and then Converted
    By AntiGravity in forum Religion
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: July 1st, 2007, 09:02 AM
  5. Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 6th, 2005, 08:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •