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  1. #1
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    Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Is Hillary Clinton Too Old to be President?

    (Reuters) - Her campaign barely three weeks old, Hillary Clinton already has been attacked by Republicans on everything from donations to her family's charitable foundation, to her tenure as secretary of state and her ties to Wall Street. But her rivals, and the political action committees that support them, are treading more carefully on one incendiary subject: her age.

    If elected in November 2016, Clinton would be, at 69, the second-oldest person to take the presidential oath for the first time, behind only Ronald Reagan, who turned 70 weeks after being sworn into office in 1981.

    Questions of health and fitness for the presidency dogged two former candidates of a similar age, Bob Dole in the 1996 election and John McCain in 2008, each of whom was 71 at this point in the race. Time magazine featured Dole on the cover asking whether he was "too old" for the job. McCain was so determined to show that he was healthy that he often put in back-breaking campaign days.
    Get more campaign news from Tails from the Trail.

    "I do think age is an issue in a presidential campaign," said Steve Schmidt, who was McCain’s campaign manager. "There is a thin line between seasoned and decrepit."

    But several Republican campaigns that seem best positioned to exploit it don't want to touch the issue - at least directly. That's a shift from just a few months ago, when presidential hopefuls Senator Rand Paul, 52, and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, 47, explicitly referenced Clinton’s age as a possible disqualifier, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell likened her to a cast member of the hit TV show “The Golden Girls,” which featured four older women living together... http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0NM34V20150501

    I can remember Democrats claiming that Ronald Reagan was too old to be elected President. And some people say he was already suffering symptoms of Alzheimer's during his second term, or even his first. As mentioned above, the question of age came up regarding Dole and McCain.

    Hillary would be, at 69, less than one year younger than Reagan was when he was first elected. At the end of her second term, she would be 77. Does that make her too old to be elected President?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  2. #2
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    I can remember Daddy Bush bringing up Reagan's age and Dutch's witty comeback. Are there questions of her "health and fitness"? Or is this just about age?
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  4. #3
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    I remember people talking about John McCain being too old. I thought that was dumb, too.

  5. #4
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Are there questions of her "health and fitness"? Or is this just about age?
    With advancing age come illnesses. That's just a fact of life and death. At what point should voters take illnesses and their potential complications into consideration? And how much should a Presidential candidate be expected to reveal? This is from an editorial that appeared in the Washington Times.

    On Dec. 7, 2012, she disappeared from view — without a word. Three days passed before the State Department said the secretary of state was “under the weather” as it announced she would cancel a planned trip to the Middle East.

    ABC News put out this mysterious entry in a timeline on what happened next: “Sometime early the week of Dec. 9: Clinton faints and falls while at home.” There’s never been any independent confirmation of that, nor did America’s crackerjack media do anything more than write down what State officials claimed.

    Four days later, Hillary was diagnosed with a concussion. Then, on Dec. 15, State Department spokesman Philippe Reines said: “While suffering from a stomach virus, Secretary Clinton became dehydrated and fainted, sustaining a concussion.”

    Of course, her sudden fall meant she had to skip her planned appearance before a House committee to testify about the death of a U.S. ambassador and three other Americans in Libya, prompting Republican Rep. Allen West to accuse her of catching “Benghazi flu.”

    More than three weeks after she disappeared, on Dec. 31, her doctors announced that an MRI scan “revealed that a right transverse sinus venous thrombosis had formed. This is a clot in the vein that is situated in the space between the brain and the skull behind the right ear. It did not result in a stroke, or neurological damage.”

    But independent doctors dispute the account. Some say the cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) wasn’t caused by a concussion, but instead was itself the cause of her collapse at home — and even that she had suffered a mild stroke. The Johns Hopkins website says symptoms of CVST include blurred vision and “fainting or loss of consciousness.”

    And this wasn’t her first episode. In 1998, she was treated for a blood clot in her leg. She fainted during a 2005 speech in Buffalo, N.Y., broke her elbow in an unexplained 2009 fall in the State Department garage, and collapsed while boarding a flight in Yemen in 2011.

    Hillary returned to work on Jan. 7, 2013, and two weeks later, when she testified, wore extremely thick glasses. Just a week later, she left her Cabinet post and became a private citizen, ending questions about her health.

    But like so many times before, out came the Clintonian lies. Hillary said she was just fine, no worries, just a little tumble at home, a little concussion, a little right transverse sinus venous thrombosis. Yet it turns out that it “required six months of very serious work to get over” a “terrible concussion,” husband Bill said last week.

    That’s not what State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Jan. 7. “Judging by the woman we saw this morning and the workload that she’s got, she seems to be fully recovered,” she said. Other officials at State said the concussion was “not severe.”

    Health concerns are always an issue for presidential candidates. Sen. Paul Tsongas had to provide proof that he had recovered from cancer during his 1992 presidential campaign. Sen. John Kerry was forced to talk at length about his prostate surgery. And most recently, Gov. Chris Christie, who has not even decided whether he will run for president, has been harangued in reports that question whether his rotundity rules him out altogether.

    And Sen. John McCain, who would have been older than Reagan upon taking office, had to let reporters pore over 1,500 pages of medical and psychological records to shut them up.

    So, Hillary, when you run, just know: We want your health records, all of them. And then we’ll decide if you’re fit for office.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz3Z8416cPG

    An otherwise healthy 75-year old isn't operating with the brainpower they did at 25, which is about the peak of both physical health and mental power. After age 27, we start losing wattage year after year, in a slow decline:

    Researchers have found that peoples' mental abilities peak at 22 before beginning to deteriorate just five years later. Professor Timothy Salthouse said the results suggested that therapies designed to prevent or reverse age-related conditions may need to start earlier, long before people become pensioners. "Results converge on a conclusion that some aspects of age-related cognitive decline begin in healthy, educated adults when they are in their 20s and 30s," he said.

    The study of 2,000 men and women lasted over seven years. The respondents, aged between 18-60, were asked to solve visual puzzles, recall words and story details and spot patterns in letters and symbols. Similar tests are often used to diagnose mental disabilities and declines, including dementia.

    The research by the University of Virginia found that in nine out of 12 tests the average age at which the top performance was achieved was 22. The first age at which performance was significantly lower than the peak scores was 27 – for three tests of reasoning, speed of thought and spatial visualisation. Memory was shown to decline from the average age of 37. In the other tests, poorer results were shown by the age of 42.

    However, the report published in the academic journal Neurobiology Of Ageing, found that abilities based on accumulated knowledge, such as performance on tests of vocabulary or general information, increased until at the age of 60. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ists-find.html

    But as the article says, with age comes knowledge. And hopefully wisdom. I think the ideal age for a president, if there is one, may be around 50-55, when there is a lot of accumulated knowledge and experience, but without too much loss of physical stamina and cognitive abilities. Hillary is well past that, and would be far past it during a second term.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  6. #5
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    If you are healthy enough to campaign (which is grueling my most accounts) then you can serve. And we do have succession rules for a reason. I do think age makes people consider the VPs a little more carefully.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  7. #6
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    If you are healthy enough to campaign (which is grueling my most accounts) then you can serve. And we do have succession rules for a reason. I do think age makes people consider the VPs a little more carefully.
    Declining cognitive ability isn't a factor at all?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Declining cognitive ability isn't a factor at all?
    Not unless you have gone full on senile. My experience is that leadership is not about being the smartest person in the room, its about understanding people and how to motivate them to use their smarts to your aims. As the article notes, raw brain power peaks at a young age. And I can remember being damned smart at that age too. But I still make better decisions and get more done with a duller brain due to a lot of wisdom and knowledge you pick up as you go. Presidents have a lot of smart 22 year olds at their disposal so they themselves don't need to be all that clever.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

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  10. #8
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul
    But as the article says, with age comes knowledge. And hopefully wisdom. I think the ideal age for a president, if there is one, may be around 50-55, when there is a lot of accumulated knowledge and experience, but without too much loss of physical stamina and cognitive abilities. Hillary is well past that, and would be far past it during a second term.
    Did you vote for McCain?

  11. #9
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    Did you vote for McCain?
    No.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  12. #10
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul
    No.
    OK--was age one of the reasons you didn't vote for McCain?

    I ask because I see a cyclical behavior on both sides of the political divide: An issue during one election cycle is brought up as a cause for concern (such as age) as a means by which to discredit someone you disagree with, however a few cycles down the line when the shoe is on the other foot, it is suddenly a non-issue. It's absurd.

  13. #11
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    OK--was age one of the reasons you didn't vote for McCain?

    I ask because I see a cyclical behavior on both sides of the political divide: An issue during one election cycle is brought up as a cause for concern (such as age) as a means by which to discredit someone you disagree with, however a few cycles down the line when the shoe is on the other foot, it is suddenly a non-issue. It's absurd.
    That's politics.

    Although I've brought up Hillary as the current candidate in question, this thread is also about whether age is a valid concern for voters looking at any candidate from any party.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul
    That's politics.
    That's hypocrisy. That you and most of this country simply accept lying, hyperbole, hypocrisy and gamesmanship as 'just politics' is precisely the reason this brand of 'politics' will never go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul
    Although I've brought up Hillary as the current candidate in question, this thread is also about whether age is a valid concern for voters looking at any candidate from any party.
    It just isn't interesting or compelling as a topic for debate. It has no impact on Hillary's (or any other candidate's) moral authority--which is far more important.

  15. #13
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    That's hypocrisy. That you and most of this country simply accept lying, hyperbole, hypocrisy and gamesmanship as 'just politics' is precisely the reason this brand of 'politics' will never go away.
    I think it is just recognizing a fact. But you're entitled to your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    It just isn't interesting or compelling as a topic for debate.
    I don't think anyone dragged you in. And you are free to not participate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    It has no impact on Hillary's (or any other candidate's) moral authority--which is far more important.
    Start a thread on Hillary's moral authority. Please. lol.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  16. #14
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul
    I don't think anyone dragged you in. And you are free to not participate.
    Just a discreet method of challenging you to up your game instead of wallowing in (and starting) such intellectually vacuous discussions.

  17. #15
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    Just a discreet method of challenging you to up your game instead of wallowing in (and starting) such intellectually vacuous discussions.
    Instead of complaining, maybe bring your game. Any game.

    You've been here four years and have never started a thread.

    It's rather pathetic when those who can't or won't do something complain about those who try.
    Last edited by evensaul; May 4th, 2015 at 11:37 AM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  18. #16
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul
    Instead of complaining, maybe bring your game. Any game.

    You've been here four years and have never started a thread.

    It's rather pathetic when those who can't or won't do something complain about those who try.
    To clarify: I wouldn't bother responding to you and making such comments if I didn't think you were capable of better, more nuanced arguments.

    Aside from that, I'm not going to engage in a dick-measuring contest, so I'll bow out.

  19. #17
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freund View Post
    To clarify: I wouldn't bother responding to you and making such comments if I didn't think you were capable of better, more nuanced arguments.
    Ridiculous crap. Anyone reading more than one or two of my posts knows me better than that. Nuance. Ha! You make me laugh so hard that it hurts. You're developing a habit of popping into threads I start about Obama or Hillary to claim they're not worthy of your attention. I'm pretty sure I'd find that claiming a topic isn't worth debating is a fallacy, if I looked into it. But that's the only argument you make, because you're incapable of offering substantive opposition. But hey, you can prove me wrong. Start some high-brow nuanced debate. Contribute. Something. Meaningful.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    I think of all the reasons not to want Hillary in office, her age is of little concern. Granted, I'd have her in the Oval Office above any Republican on the table, but yeah, it's a real shame that Elizabeth Warren isn't running, but it's good news that Bernie Sanders is running. He'll lose, but at least he'll be a politician worth voting for.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

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  22. #19
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Ridiculous crap. Anyone reading more than one or two of my posts knows me better than that. Nuance. Ha! You make me laugh so hard that it hurts. You're developing a habit of popping into threads I start about Obama or Hillary to claim they're not worthy of your attention. I'm pretty sure I'd find that claiming a topic isn't worth debating is a fallacy, if I looked into it. But that's the only argument you make, because you're incapable of offering substantive opposition. But hey, you can prove me wrong. Start some high-brow nuanced debate. Contribute. Something. Meaningful.
    Self-imploding much?

  23. #20
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    Re: Hillary - Too Old to be Elected President?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    That's politics.

    Although I've brought up Hillary as the current candidate in question, this thread is also about whether age is a valid concern for voters looking at any candidate from any party.

    I think age is just a number that is suppose to represent something relative to our human physiology. But age does not necessarily always reflect the human physiology or the state of mind accurately. Some 70-year olds, for example, can have the health and energy level of a 45-year old, and some 45-year olds can have the health, energy level and mental state of a 70-year old. More then age, I would say, the candidate's overall state of mind, energy level and current physiology is more relevant than age. In that I'm not much of a Clinton supporter, though it has little to do with her age, I can understand how some of the young adult voting population might view her age as a possible factor to consider.

    Sixty-nine is getting up there and R. Reagan was the only other U.S. president that was 69 when he was inaugurated -- and he may have been showing signs Alzheimer's during his second term.. The average age of U.S. Presidents on inauguration day seems to be in the mid 50's.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._States_by_age.
    Last edited by eye4magic; May 6th, 2015 at 07:03 PM.
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