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  1. #1
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    Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Baltimore has been run by Democrats for fifty years. They own the problems there. It isn't Republicans responsible for the poverty, crime and racial tensions. Liberal Democrats should look at what Baltimore is today, and admit that they have failed. They should recognize that modern liberalism does not lift people up, but enslaves them to dependance on the state, removes incentives to excel, encourages a victim mentality, and generally destroys the individual spirit and the greater community.


    Baltimore is a Disaster Created and Owned by Liberal Democrats

    Martin O’Malley (D) says he plans to announce his presidential campaign in Baltimore. Perhaps he’ll used a burned-out police car or a looted storefront as his backdrop. The former Maryland governor and Baltimore mayor tried to blame last week’s unrest on structural problems in our economy, outsourcing and a failure to invest in infrastructure. Nice try. The fact is, O’Malley and the Democrats own Baltimore and the disaster it has become. As one resident who met O’Malley at an inner-city food drive last week put it, “He’s walking into the aftermath of his legacy.”

    It’s not his legacy alone. The last time Baltimore had a Republican mayor was 1967, nearly five decades ago. Indeed, the state of Maryland has had just two Republican governors since 1969 (and one took office just four months ago). Baltimore is a deep blue city in a deep blue state. The mayor is a Democrat. Every member of the city council is a Democrat. The school system is run by Democrats (and their teachers union overlords).

    So when you see Baltimore on fire, Democrats built that.

    Baltimore is the poster child for the left’s failed war on poverty. In 1964, President Lyndon Johnson launched the Great Society. He promised, “Our American answer to poverty is not to make the poor more secure in their poverty but to reach down and to help them lift themselves out of the ruts of poverty and move with the large majority along the high road of hope and prosperity.”

    Do you see a Great Society in Sandtown? I sure don’t.

    Today, the national poverty rate is 14.5 percent, which is virtually unchanged from 1966, when most of Johnson’s Great Society programs first took effect. In Baltimore, the poverty rate is even worse, with 24 percent of all residents and 35 percent of children living below the poverty line. The unemployment rate for black men in Baltimore between the ages of 20-24 is 37 percent. To put that in perspective, the unemployment rate during the Great Depression was just 22.9 percent. You know you have failed when reaching the employment levels of the Great Depression would be progress.

    The New York Times reported Monday morning on a new study which found that “among the nation’s 100 largest counties, the one where children face the worst odds of escaping poverty is the city of Baltimore.” Low-income boys who grow up in Baltimore earn 25 percent less as adults than low-income boys who moved away as small children.

    In the Baltimore community of Sandtown-Winchester, where the riots took place, The Post reported on Saturday that city officials “injected $130 million into the community in a failed effort to transform it. Instead there are block after block of boarded-up houses and too many people with little hope.” Nearly half of all Sandtown-Winchester high school students missed at least 20 days of school in 2011 and just 6 percent graduated from college — less than a quarter of the rate for the rest of the city. The community’s murder rate is double the average for Baltimore (which, in turn, had the fifth-highest murder rate last year among major U.S. cities). The state spends $17 million a year just to incarcerate Sandtown-Winchester residents.

    The problem, as former Baltimore Housing commissioner Daniel Henson III told The Post, was that the city knew how to build houses, but “what we did not know as well was how to improve human capital.” Clearly, the Democratic approach of throwing money at the problem has not worked. In 2014, Baltimore public schools ranked third in the country in per-pupil spending, behind only New York and Boston. Yet, according to the 2013 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), 55 percent of Baltimore fourth graders scored “below basic” in reading while just 14 percent scored at the proficient or advanced level. Meanwhile 54 percent of eighth graders scored “below basic” in math, while just 13 percent were proficient or advanced.

    O’Malley says recent events in Baltimore should serve as “a wake-up call for the entire country.” He’s right about that. After five decades of virtually uninterrupted Democratic rule, Baltimore is an utter disaster. The left’s approach to poverty has failed.

    Reflecting on Baltimore’s dismal record, a former aide to former Mayor Kurt Schmoke told The Post “We meant well.” I’m sure they did. But meaning well is no excuse for almost 50 years of failure.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...0c9_story.html
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  2. #2
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    In that case the dramatic success of Seattle is also owned by Democrats. My city is as blue as they come and its has a booming economy, vibrant culture, and is generally considered a great place to live. Its been a liberal stronghold for a good long time now.

    I'm not saying the liberals in Baltimore don't own what happens there, but I'm saying that democrats overall don't. Different challenges call for different solutions. And ya, some challenges the progressive prescription is terrible.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    In that case the dramatic success of Seattle is also owned by Democrats. My city is as blue as they come and its has a booming economy, vibrant culture, and is generally considered a great place to live. Its been a liberal stronghold for a good long time now.

    I'm not saying the liberals in Baltimore don't own what happens there, but I'm saying that democrats overall don't. Different challenges call for different solutions. And ya, some challenges the progressive prescription is terrible.
    Yeah, and the racial demographics for the two cities are so similar... oh, wait. Blacks in Seattle= 13%, while Blacks in Baltimore=63%.

    Never mind, it would be racist to say that makes a difference in the economies and culture. Right?
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Yeah, and the racial demographics for the two cities are so similar... oh, wait. Blacks in Seattle= 13%, while Blacks in Baltimore=63%.

    Never mind, it would be racist to say that makes a difference in the economies and culture. Right?
    If you want to score political points off that statistic, I think you'd do better to argue that Democrat policies tend to only benefit upper-middle class whites.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Yeah, and the racial demographics for the two cities are so similar... oh, wait. Blacks in Seattle= 13%, while Blacks in Baltimore=63%.
    Wait, so is it democrats or blacks that own this problem?
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  6. #6
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Maryland has a republican governor.

  7. #7
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Wait, so is it democrats or blacks that own this problem?
    Politically, it is Democrats. The demographics are important because although liberal policies are having a negative impact on family structure and finances across the racial spectrum (because they subsidize lack of work, encourage poor women to have more children, subsidize the breakup of marriages, etc) they have especially ravaged the black community. Because Seattle has a relatively small black population, the negative effects of liberal policies had much less effect there than in Baltimore. So when we combine national liberal programs with Democratic run local government, there is no one to blame politically but Democrats.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Politically, it is Democrats. The demographics are important because although liberal policies are having a negative impact on family structure and finances across the racial spectrum (because they subsidize lack of work, encourage poor women to have more children, subsidize the breakup of marriages, etc) they have especially ravaged the black community. Because Seattle has a relatively small black population, the negative effects of liberal policies had much less effect there than in Baltimore. So when we combine national liberal programs with Democratic run local government, there is no one to blame politically but Democrats.
    Last I checked there weren't any government policies specifically targeting black people so how is it that these democratic policies to subsidies lack of work and babies and no marriage have affected Baltimore so dramatically and not Seattle? If Democratic policies create poverty and childlessness and so forth, shouldn't Seattle have an ever increasing number of poor people regardless of their demographics?
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    Wait, so is it democrats or blacks that own this problem?
    Could it be possible that black democrats are the problem specifically? I mean if they specifically control the politics where politics are found to cause X problem or to facilitate it.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    In that case the dramatic success of Seattle is also owned by Democrats.
    Do you mean income equality success? The Seattle City Council (all Democrats and one registered Socialist) do own the huge income inequality of the city. I have family there and yes, the Seattle City Council and government leaders own the huge homeless and poor situation there. The city in not well balanced as it has a small percentage of very rich corporations and a large percentage of poor people with very few in-between, or what Americans call the middle class. This can cause protests and possibly riots. I think Seattle has the 3rd largest homeless population. That’s not a fun thing to own in an American modern city. Where's all that redistribution of wealth going?
    http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/seat...rallies/nkttK/

    The evidence suggests very strongly that the left-wing, Democratic claques that run a great many American cities — particularly the poor and black cities — are not capable of running a school system or a police department. They are incompetent, they are corrupt, and they are breathtakingly arrogant. Cleveland, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore — this is what Democrats do.

    Still, Seattle’s growth has been uneven. Prices have climbed – a Seattle Times columnist suggested that grunge bands of the 1990s could not afford it today – while new households in the county have tended to be either rich or poor, with few in-between, the paper reported. Admittedly this is not only a conundrum for Seattle, said Clark Williams-Derry, deputy director of a Seattle sustainability think tank. There has been a broader “hollowing-out of the middle class” in the US.

    Washington’s tax system, ranked as the most regressive in the country by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, is not helping. The lowest-earning families in the state “pay about 17% of their income in taxes. And our top 10 percent pay about 2.7% of their income”, said Pramila Jayapal, a Democratic state senator. All income growth in Washington between 2009 and 2012 accrued to the top 1%, she added.

    Murray gave the example of Seattle’s homeless. A January count in the city found that there were about 20% more people spending the night outside than last year. The city’s shelters are only “somewhat safer, somewhat drier”, like a bandage for the problem. Robust funding from the government is the solution, he said.
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  12. #11
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Could it be possible that black democrats are the problem specifically? I mean if they specifically control the politics where politics are found to cause X problem or to facilitate it.
    You'd have to ask Evensaul that question, not I.

    ---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    Do you mean income equality success?
    No, I'm talking about the kind of thing the OP is talking about. Abject poverty, unemployment and the resulting social unrest.

    We actually have a pretty low poverty rate... 15th of the 50 states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_poverty_rate Below the US average. Seattle itself is a bit above that as are most urban centers. Seattle is around 14%... by comparison Detroit is the worst in the 40% range. Miami Florida is 30% as is Lorado Texas, not a liberal stronghold by any stretch.

    Besides from the article you posted...
    "That is a wide income gap, to be sure, but it only ranks Seattle in the middle of the pack among major U.S. cities."
    So basically income gap is something common in both red and blue states and Seattle is basically just average for an american City. The reason the gap is so big is we have massive wealth here. From your article...
    "What narrows the income gap here somewhat is that Seattle’s lowest tier earns more on average compared to most other big cities."
    "Where Seattle stands out most is in the startling degree of affluence at the highest stratum of earners. The top 5 percent of Seattle households have an average income of $423,000. Among the nation’s 50 most-populous cities, that ranks Seattle’s “five percenters” as the fifth most affluent, just one rung below New York."

    Not exactly bad problems to have.
    I live here and have been to many other US cities. Poverty in Seattle exists, but its nothing compared to most cities. Our very worst neighborhoods are pretty decent.
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  13. #12
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Last I checked there weren't any government policies specifically targeting black people so how is it that these democratic policies to subsidies lack of work and babies and no marriage have affected Baltimore so dramatically and not Seattle?
    Because, as I said, there are far more blacks in Baltimore than Seattle, and black families have seen a greater increase in fatherless households.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Listen to these comments by Juan Williams (no conservative, he) as he describes a Baltimore that was solidly middle-class for generations and has, over the last half-century under Democrat administrations, done a slow implosion. http://video.foxnews.com/v/420201074...#sp=show-clips

    During the interview, The Moynihan Report is mentioned. If you're not familiar with it, you need to be. Find it here: http://www.blackpast.org/primary/moynihan-report-1965

    Fifty years ago, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, then a young Dept of Labor staffer, wrote about how and why black nuclear families were imperiled, in a self-perpetuating "tangle of pathology". A good summary line was "The steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States". That was fifty years ago, and welfare programs for the poor have only increased. The link is now obvious. As welfare programs have increased, so have the single-parent households they subsidize. Although the negative effects of aid to single-mothers has been spread across racial lines, it has had greatest impact on black families already susceptible to family breakups. Where there is a large concentration of black poverty and ghetto culture, the results may be explosive.
    Last edited by evensaul; May 9th, 2015 at 04:34 PM.
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  14. #13
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    The link is now obvious. As welfare programs have increased, so have the single-parent households they subsidize. Although the negative effects of aid to single-mothers has been spread across racial lines, it has had greatest impact on black families already susceptible to family breakups. Where there is a large concentration of black poverty and ghetto culture, the results may be explosive.
    So you are saying that blacks for some reason are especially vulnerable to democratic policies? Why do you think that is?

    ---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    During the interview, The Moynihan Report is mentioned. If you're not familiar with it, you need to be. Find it here: http://www.blackpast.org/primary/moynihan-report-1965
    Interesting read that. Though honestly it doesn't support what you see as the cause of the problem, only the nature of the problem. The report in fact points to a number of causes having nothing to do with welfare and in fact calls out that one of the problems is that the state provides little support for young bread winners who's wages are insufficient to support a family thus encouraging them to go it alone and avoid having any dependents.
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    The Moynihan Report describes the nature of the problem fifty years ago. A problem which is now even worse, as the graph showed.

    Are you willing to concede that monetarily subsidizing any activity encourages that activity? If not, why not?

    If yes, then isn't it logical that government welfare (food stamps, housing, child-care, etc) to unmarried-mother households will increase the number of unmarried-mother households? Government welfare has expanded the longstanding culture of matriarchy in the black community, giving women little need for a bread-winner husband, and leaving little reason for black fathers to marry and be present in their children's lives.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Are you willing to concede that monetarily subsidizing any activity encourages that activity? If not, why not?
    It's not something I ever challenged. I agree that subsidizing an activity encourages it to some degree. That said, it can be a complicated topic. Subsidies don't always work the way intended or imagined.

    If yes, then isn't it logical that government welfare (food stamps, housing, child-care, etc) to unmarried-mother households will increase the number of unmarried-mother households?
    Only if those same subsidies are not available to married mothers and their households.

    Government welfare has expanded the longstanding culture of matriarchy in the black community, giving women little need for a bread-winner husband, and leaving little reason for black fathers to marry and be present in their children's lives.
    By this reasoning would it not make a lot of sense to subsidies marriages in that same population?

    BTW My question remains unanswered...
    So you are saying that blacks for some reason are especially vulnerable to democratic policies? Why do you think that is?
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    It's not something I ever challenged.
    Right, I could have used the word stipulate rather than concede. I just wanted to find out if we have some basis for continuing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I agree that subsidizing an activity encourages it to some degree. That said, it can be a complicated topic. Subsidies don't always work the way intended or imagined.
    But generally, the greater the subsidy, the more incentive there is to meet the requirements. So the more government aids unwed mothers and their children in poor neighborhoods, there more incentive there is to be or remain an unwed mother. Or put another way, the less incentive there is to marry the father of one's child or to keep a husband. Child support checks and alimony are additional examples of government interference that encourage the break-up of families. Mothers tell a father to get out, knowing he'll have to pay, and fathers think they're okay to be absent as long as they send a monthly check.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Only if those same subsidies are not available to married mothers and their households.
    Or are available in lesser amounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    By this reasoning would it not make a lot of sense to subsidies marriages in that same population?
    It could, if done the right way. But government rarely does such things effectively and without unwanted side effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    BTW My question remains unanswered...
    So you are saying that blacks for some reason are especially vulnerable to democratic policies? Why do you think that is?
    I think the Moynihan Report suggests lingering effects of slavery and a lack of jobs for black men at that time.
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    But generally, the greater the subsidy, the more incentive there is to meet the requirements. So the more government aids unwed mothers and their children in poor neighborhoods, there more incentive there is to be or remain an unwed mother. Or put another way, the less incentive there is to marry the father of one's child or to keep a husband. Child support checks and alimony are additional examples of government interference that encourage the break-up of families. Mothers tell a father to get out, knowing he'll have to pay, and fathers think they're okay to be absent as long as they send a monthly check.
    The way subsidies work is to change the cost-benefit analysis of a given action. If I paid you a $1 to eat cat poop, you would not eat cat poop. If I paid you 1 Billion dollars you may well acquire a taste for the stuff. For most people the benefits of being married outweigh whatever money the state may want to offer. For some however that may not be the case and the level of subsidy may be a greater value than marriage. That again is assuming there is money that is only available if you are single. It is not clear to me that this is true. Most income assistance is based on family income, not family marital status.

    The idea that low income subsidies assist single people especially is based on the notion that a dual income would be larger. Presumably true unless neither parent earns much in the way of income. If it were the case that the man makes a living that would preclude assistance, then there is no real incentive to not marry. The income is the same or better for marriage and presumably there are other benefits. Only if marriage is a burden to you for other reasons does the public assistance seem a better option.

    Now if you wanted to really game the system you could not marry yet still share income, then the family has two sources of income. But in this case you are not married in name only, in truth you are getting all the social benefits and the subsidy is not changing your behavior meaningfully, just motivating you to lie to the state. Here the social ills of the subsidy are not all that significant (though probably still a problem to a degree).

    As for child support and alimony, those are disincentives to divorce for the man ,not incentives as you say. Absent these policies men could leave their wives and children and have no financial penalty at all, indeed they gain a great deal as they have no dependents. What it does do is act as some incentive to the woman, again provided that the financial aid they get is greater than that they had married or that the aid plus the other benefits of not being married are greater than the benefits of marriage.

    Your example where a father feels better about his kids being OK makes no sense. He could easily provide that money even if it was not mandatory so the mandatory nature of it makes no difference to his decision making except as a ward against divorce. It is in fact easier to not give your wife money while married than not married so this program is a disincentive for divorce for men. (but an incentive for some women as noted above)

    It could, if done the right way. But government rarely does such things effectively and without unwanted side effects.
    Everything has side effects and private business are just as good at messing things up as government. The one is just better at surviving than the other when they make such mistakes. Nor do any private enterprises have incentive to subsidies marriages so if not the state, then no one will.

    I do think that government policy should intentionally look to support marriages where children are involved. We should make it attractive for fathers to stay with mothers and mothers with fathers. Or if not that to find adoptive parents to join in. That said, human relationships are about more than money so there is only so much economic policies can do to build or destroy such relationships.

    I think the Moynihan Report suggests lingering effects of slavery and a lack of jobs for black men at that time.
    Indeed. And in this way both government and private industry conspired to destroy the foundation of black families. (though that was not the purpose, cheap labor was)
    Of course as the study notes, those black families that none the less adopted strong family values managed to do quite well, and still do (our current president is a good example).

    It also points to the problem of continued racism (much stronger then than now but sill an issue) and a lack of government support for young poor families that causes men to avoid having dependents if they can.

    It doesn't address one of the current ills of so many black men in the prison system which is part of what breaks up families and forms the cycle we so well know.

    It doesn't mention welfare for single mothers but I'm happy to add that to the list as it makes at least a little sense.

    So....
    We have a situation which started as bad and over time has gotten worse where inner city black families have a culture the leads to a lot of broken homes or homes with extremely limited incomes which as a result leads to a cycle of pervert and under achievement disproportional to the rest of the population.

    While I agree we should take a hard look at policies that incentives broken families, I find that simply calling for an end to any effort to address the problem is not any kind of real attempt to address it.

    I think what we can say is that by and large the policies we have had to try and address the problem are not successful and we need to consider new ideas.
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    A thoughtful reply, some of which I don't agree with, but I heartily agree with the final sentence "I think what we can say is that by and large the policies we have had to try and address the problem are not successful and we need to consider new ideas."

    And those failed ideas were pushed by Democrats. The same Democrat party that endorsed slavery, enacted Jim Crow laws, embraced the KKK, refused to denounce lynchings, applauded forced segregation, and turned fire hoses on civil rights marchers. So when we look at the status of black culture, it has been and still is the Democrats that are responsible for the ever-growing "tangle of pathology".
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    And those failed ideas were pushed by Democrats. The same Democrat party that endorsed slavery, enacted Jim Crow laws, embraced the KKK, refused to denounce lynchings, applauded forced segregation, and turned fire hoses on civil rights marchers. So when we look at the status of black culture, it has been and still is the Democrats that are responsible for the ever-growing "tangle of pathology".
    Ever thought the constant propaganda gets a bit one note? No one alive today is responsible for slavery my man. The republicans and democrats of various times all had a hand in it. Republicans are also traditionally the party of federal power, so what? today that is not their thing.

    These days the GOP offers absolutely nothing to african american constituents beyond a stern lecture and platitudes. Until they actually show interest in the current plight of african americans and propose to do something about it, the history lessons mean absolutely nothing when they go to the voting booth.

    A man respects much more a person that tries to help and fails, than one who fails to even try. That is basic human nature. Until the GOP can figure that out, its never going to change anything anywhere minorities have voting majorities. It's no contest.
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    Re: Democrats Own the Disaster that is Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    The republicans and democrats of various times all had a hand in it.
    If you have a case against Republicans for slavery or Jim Crow laws, or KKK then make it. We'll see if it comes anywhere close to the history of the Democrat party, a description of which may be found here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB121856786326834083

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Republicans are also traditionally the party of federal power, so what? today that is not their thing. These days the GOP offers absolutely nothing to african american constituents beyond a stern lecture and platitudes. Until they actually show interest in the current plight of african americans and propose to do something about it, the history lessons mean absolutely nothing when they go to the voting booth.

    A man respects much more a person that tries to help and fails, than one who fails to even try. That is basic human nature. Until the GOP can figure that out, its never going to change anything anywhere minorities have voting majorities. It's no contest.
    Which is all a big red herring. Please do start a new thread on that topic if you like.
    Last edited by evensaul; May 12th, 2015 at 07:44 PM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

 

 
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