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  1. #1
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    Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    This is ridiculous.

    "House Majority Leader Tom DeLay on Thursday blamed Terri Schiavo's death on what he contended was a failed legal system and he raised the possibility of trying to impeach some of the federal judges in the case. "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior,'' said DeLay, R-Texas."


    ...


    "DeLay, the second-ranking House GOP lawmaker, helped lead congressional efforts 10 days ago to enact legislation designed to prod the federal courts into ordering the reinsertion of Schiavo's feeding tube. He said the courts' refusal to do just that was a 'perfect example of an out of control judiciary.''

    Asked about the possibility of the House's bringing impeachment charges against judges in the Schiavo case, DeLay said, 'There's plenty of time to look into that.'"


    ...


    "Joining DeLay in taking issue with the judiciary was Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., who said, 'The actions on the part of the Florida court and the U.S. Supreme Court are unconscionable.' Also, GOP Rep. Patrick McHenry of North Carolina said the case 'saw a state judge completely ignore a congressional committees subpoena and insult its inten'' and 'a federal court not only reject, but deride the very law that Congress passed.'

    DeLay said he would make sure that the GOP-controlled House 'will look at an arrogant and out of control judiciary that thumbs its nose at Congress and the president.'"

    Specious thinking. The judges followed Congress's law to the letter. Perhaps they should have written a more specific law (although to do such would be an ENORMOUS violation of federalism (yeah, Ibelsd, I know, "it already was")).
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  2. #2
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Well here is how I see it, the Congress subpoenad (I have no idea how to spell that word) Terri Schiavo, and I think the courts overruled it.

    Meaning that the courts overstepped their authority. I could be wrong though, I havent been following all the legal details concerning this issue.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Well here is how I see it, the Congress subpoenad (I have no idea how to spell that word) Terri Schiavo, and I think the courts overruled it.

    Meaning that the courts overstepped their authority. I could be wrong though, I havent been following all the legal details concerning this issue.
    Here's what happened:

    Congress ordered a federal court to examine whether Terri Schiavo's federal rights had been violated. Congress did not subpoena Terri Schiavo. The federal court determined that Terri's case had no merit. I think that Judge Tjoflat, dissenting the court's opinion, made a plausible argument for hearing the case based on the fact that the state courts failed to properly apply a “clear and convincing” standard, which could, arguably, be required by the Constitution. Also, the courts moved with blinding speed through a process that takes much longer in death penalty cases, and the mandatory reviews/appeals thereof.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples
    Congress did not subpoena Terri Schiavo.
    Yes they did. This is what all the hub-bub is about.

    Official Congressional Subpoenas

    The 2nd one down is Terri's.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Yes they did. This is what all the hub-bub is about.
    Well, color me misinformed.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  6. #6
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    I do not think removing judges because of this is necessary. The judges simply interpreted the law, which states that if no advance directive is existent, then it is the husband's choice. The problem is, the law is too vague, and it provides for inhumane methods of death, and further, the husband had a conflict of interest because of his new family. This case simply was approached too legalistically, without enough attention paid to the spirit of the law. Mrs. Schiavo should not have been starved.

  7. #7
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Few other interesting facts that aren't well known and contradict the MYTHS concerning the case...

    Terri did not have a heart attack.
    Terri did not have a cardiac arrest.

    She has NEVER, NOT ONCE been diagnosed as having either. Doctors stated they were unsure as to what caused her collapse. In 2002, they again stated they did not know what caused the collapse. One doctor went even further and said it could NOT have been a heart attack.

    This is a case of evidence showing the POWER of mainstream media to promote that which is not true, say it enough times, and it "becomes truth".

    Terri was also never diagnosed with bulimia.

    More on the way...
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  8. #8
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    On the "debunking myths" subject:

    Painless? Yeah, pull my other leg.

    (blah, blah, Godwin's Law, blah, blah)
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  9. #9
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    Few other interesting facts that aren't well known and contradict the MYTHS concerning the case...

    Terri did not have a heart attack.
    Terri did not have a cardiac arrest.

    She has NEVER, NOT ONCE been diagnosed as having either. Doctors stated they were unsure as to what caused her collapse. In 2002, they again stated they did not know what caused the collapse. One doctor went even further and said it could NOT have been a heart attack.

    This is a case of evidence showing the POWER of mainstream media to promote that which is not true, say it enough times, and it "becomes truth".

    Terri was also never diagnosed with bulimia.

    More on the way...
    Is the implication here that Michael Schiavo failed to kill Terri in 1990, and has been trying to finish the job ever since?

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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples
    On the "debunking myths" subject:

    Painless? Yeah, pull my other leg.

    (blah, blah, Godwin's Law, blah, blah)
    Even assuming Terri Schiavo could have felt pain, this man is hopelessly outnumbered by experts who say that death by dehydration is painless anyway. Furthermore, if at any point it looked like she was suffering, doctors were on hand to pump her full of painkillers.

  11. #11
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Even assuming Terri Schiavo could have felt pain, this man is hopelessly outnumbered by experts who say that death by dehydration is painless anyway.
    Which has nothing to do with whether this fellow is right or not. Good contribution.

    Furthermore, if at any point it looked like she was suffering, doctors were on hand to pump her full of painkillers.
    Ah, but if she's PVS, then she doesn't respond to pain, does she?
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  12. #12
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples
    Which has nothing to do with whether this fellow is right or not.
    Felder's whole article there is built on the assumption made in the first paragraph that death by dehydration and starvation caused victims of the SS to go insane and "die a horrific, excruciating death".

    Take for example this study:
    "In a 2003 study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, 102 hospice nurses caring for terminally ill patients who refused food and drink described their patients' final days as peaceful, with less pain and suffering than those who had elected to die through physician-assisted suicide."
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ck=1&cset=true

    If his presumption that she should be feeling pain is false, then his predictions about what would occur in the brain with the absence of a cerebral cortex are even less reliable.

    Ah, but if she's PVS, then she doesn't respond to pain, does she?
    It is impossible to diagnose PVS with 100% accuracy. She might not have been in PVS.

    Good contribution.
    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

  13. #13
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Impeaching judges on the grounds that they failed Terri. Please.

    I love the precedent this is setting: "We're the republicans. We are in authority. Step in line or we'll crush you no matter who you are."

    Scalia is on the Supreme Court.

    The Supreme Court opted not to hear the case. If they had heard the case, then Terri very well may be "alive" right now. Are they going to go after their conservative bretheren too?

  14. #14
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    The decision; 'legal' decision to withdraw life support on Terri was supposed to be based on current civil, criminal and medical law. If the experts held to the letter and the meaning of all the currently laid down conventions, well what is there to impeach? Only the law makers perhaps. They are not the lawyers, they are the politicians. If the Supreme Court decided not to sit then it comes down to why they didn't hear the case. If a case seems legally clear cut, they don't have to muscle in on lower courts.

    Whatever the decision, it would always have been contentious.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by mog
    Is the implication here that Michael Schiavo failed to kill Terri in 1990, and has been trying to finish the job ever since?
    No. The implication is, people buy whatever the media sells, INCLUDING the media. All it takes is for 1 bit of misinformation to be repeated enough for it to become "truth".

    I've heard about the allegations of him trying to kill her. However, that is not the argument I'm making here. The point is, no one knows the cause. IMO, there are still a lot of unanswered questions out there concerning this case.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    Impeaching judges on the grounds that they failed Terri. Please.

    I love the precedent this is setting: "We're the republicans. We are in authority. Step in line or we'll crush you no matter who you are."

    Scalia is on the Supreme Court.

    The Supreme Court opted not to hear the case. If they had heard the case, then Terri very well may be "alive" right now. Are they going to go after their conservative bretheren too?
    Man, you can't stop drinking pink flavored Kool-Aid. This is NOT a Republican verus Democrat thing. The Republicans are acting no differently than Democrats. Remember Kerry's call for judges to pass a moral test? How is stacking the bench and different than unstacking it, or restacking it? Did any Senate Democrats oppose the Schiavo bill? This a full frontal attack on the federalist system which the Democrats have been performing since FDR. Now, the Republicans have simply come out of the closet (no pun intended) and joined in on the same side. Euthenasia, abortion, education, social security, wellfare, medicare, decency standards, and the list goes on and on an on. You want to support legislating morality, Zhav? Fine. Just don't act so indignant when someone else wants to legislate morality which differs from your own.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  17. #17
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    I am against impeaching Supreme Court Justices for any one ruling. Absolutely against it. I live in a city in Massachusetts where our state representative wants four of the justices on the state Supreme Court impeached for their ruling in 2003 of gay marriage. I am against this sort of thing. It seems extremely reckless to me.
    A proud supporter of:
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    An opponent of:
    -Intolerance, Bigotry, or Hatred of any kind
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Anyone else amazed by this recent showing of blantant anti-conservatism by the Republican legislature?

  19. #19
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Anyone else amazed by this recent showing of blantant anti-conservatism by the Republican legislature?
    Anyone else amazed that liberals are condemning a move that is supposedly toward their own philosophy?
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  20. #20
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    Re: Impeach Judges who ruled against Terri? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    Few other interesting facts that aren't well known and contradict the MYTHS concerning the case...

    Terri did not have a heart attack.
    Terri did not have a cardiac arrest.

    This is a case of evidence showing the POWER of mainstream media to promote that which is not true, say it enough times, and it "becomes truth".
    lol. This is simply an untruth propogated by the pro-lifers. Terri's heart attack is not a result of untruths propogated by mainstream media, as pro-lifers would like you to believe.

    First, "Terri's Law" required the chief judge of the local circuit court to appoint a guardian ad litem to examine Terri's case and advise the Governor. The chief judge appointed Dr. Jay Wolfson from the University of South Florida. Dr. Wolfson's December 2003 report to Governor Bush included this bit of factual history:

    "The cause of the cardiac arrest was adduced to a dramatically reduced potassium level in Theresa's body. Sodium and potassium maintain a vital, chemical balance in the human body that helps define the electrolyte levels. The cause of the imbalance was not clearly identified, but may be linked, in theory, to her drinking 10-15 glasses of iced tea each day. While no formal proof emerged, the medical records note that the combination of [Terri's] aggressive weight loss, diet control and excessive hydration raised questions about Theresa from Bulimia, an eating disorder, more common among women than men, in which purging through vomiting, laxatives and other methods of diet control become obsessive."

    Second, also relevant to questions about the cause of Terri's collapse is the lawsuit that Michael brought on Terri's behalf against Terri's doctors. The premise of that early 1990s lawsuit was that the doctors committed malpractice by failing to diagnose Terri's bulimia and that her bulimia led to her cardiac arrest. The case was tried to a jury, which ruled in Michael's favor, finding that Terri had bulimia, that her bulimia caused her cardiac arrest, and that the doctors were negligent in failing to diagnose the situation. The verdict was appealed, and before the appellate court could rule, the parties settled, with Michael recovering approximately $750,000 for Terri and $300,000 for himself.

    Third, the Second District has explained:

    "On February 25, 1990, . . . Theresa, age 27, suffered a cardiac arrest as a result of a potassium imbalance. Michael called 911, and Theresa was rushed to the hospital. She never regained consciousness . . . . Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs. . . . Although the physicians are not in complete agreement concerning the extent of Mrs. Schiavo's brain damage, they all agree that the brain scans show extensive permanent damage to her brain. The only debate between the doctors is whether she has a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex."


    As far as DeLay and others calling for impeachment, what they fail to recognize is that the Founding Fathers drafted the Consitution providing for Federal judges to be appointed for life for the very reason of promoting independence from the legislative and executive branches. Impeaching a federal judge because you don't like the way he or she ruled flies squarely in the face of Constitution of the United States. These guys know no shame...

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive
    Anyone else amazed that liberals are condemning a move that is supposedly toward their own philosophy?
    A disregard of separation of powers and an independent judiciary have nothing to do with liberal philosophy; that belongs to the RepubliChristians only...

 

 
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