A Christian Act

[kaptonok]

Western civilisation has been ruled and matured by Christian thought to such an extent that any act of charity by anybody is called a Christian act. Psychologists inform us that such acts are not truly altruistic but make us feel good and inflate our ego's.
Jesus was well aware of this hence the story of the widows mite and his warning to ' give alms in secret.
Evan so the Christian believes he is ' laying by treasure in heaven.
So perhaps the noblest Christian act is that performed by an unbeliever in secret , who has nothing to gain.
The question of reward , which is linked to justice is summed up neatly : steak on the plate or pie in tbe sky.
Firebrand Christians totally give up steak on the plate for pie in the sky. Such behaviour hardly fits with human nature and the vast magority balance these two clinging to both.
Its the best of both worlds senario and Christian theology has been honed considerably to fit.
Isis is a throw back to the crusades where pie in the sky makes killing a virtue. Yet to attract followers there needs to be plenty of Islamic steak on the plate.

[Sigfried]

I'll say that even when I give to charity and tell no one about it, (and I generally don't) I still feel good about myself and the act of donating. So I don't think it is possible to escape self interest no matter what you do. Still I think there is nothing intrinsically wrong being the person you want to be and feeling good about that. If that person happens to be generous and kind all the better.

[kaptonok]

Yes thanks for that you see in my own conceited view of myself it had slipped my mind, but you are quite right we do like to polish our own image even to ourselves; fortunately you gave me a road out by adding its not too bad a thing to feel good about ourselves. I agree but we must be careful of self- justification a fault I'm often guilty of; its why the judgement of others is so important and it is the life- blood of democracy.

[Lukecash12]

Western civilisation has been ruled and matured by Christian thought to such an extent that any act of charity by anybody is called a Christian act. Psychologists inform us that such acts are not truly altruistic but make us feel good and inflate our ego's.
Jesus was well aware of this hence the story of the widows mite and his warning to ' give alms in secret.
Evan so the Christian believes he is ' laying by treasure in heaven.
So perhaps the noblest Christian act is that performed by an unbeliever in secret , who has nothing to gain.
The question of reward , which is linked to justice is summed up neatly : steak on the plate or pie in tbe sky.
Firebrand Christians totally give up steak on the plate for pie in the sky. Such behaviour hardly fits with human nature and the vast magority balance these two clinging to both.
Its the best of both worlds senario and Christian theology has been honed considerably to fit.
Isis is a throw back to the crusades where pie in the sky makes killing a virtue. Yet to attract followers there needs to be plenty of Islamic steak on the plate.

The fundamental error you make here, in understanding Christian thinking, is that you think Christians do these things, in part, out of self interest in order to think that they are good people. But what Christians are really taught, is to do such things in order to share and feel love. God's love.

[kaptonok]

I take your point Luke but that is what Christians say they are about. Many of us have ideas about ourselves that justify our life- style and our actions.Outsiders like myself must look at the actions of Christians and be at liberty to interpret those actions. I only ask for the same liberty I give to all men , a free mind to judge the acts and thoughts of other people. Once a man fixes his viewpoint then he becomes static and bends everything to suit his own beliefs.

[Lukecash12]

I take your point Luke but that is what Christians say they are about. Many of us have ideas about ourselves that justify our life- style and our actions.Outsiders like myself must look at the actions of Christians and be at liberty to interpret those actions. I only ask for the same liberty I give to all men , a free mind to judge the acts and thoughts of other people. Once a man fixes his viewpoint then he becomes static and bends everything to suit his own beliefs.

Or that is what Christians are about, at least they should be. And we don't fit into your neat little box. Go ahead and keep living in your cynical world. Just know that it's a box where people are fitted into neat, manageable little compartments in order to make them easier to understand. Don't worry, you're got company, because everyone is solipsistic when it comes to this or that. But let's at least try to be self aware on this.

Am I being harsh? Maybe it's because you said "I take your point", and then it was in one ear and out the other. That's solipsistic.

[eye4magic]

Many of us have ideas about ourselves that justify our life- style and our actions. Outsiders like myself must look at the actions of Christians and be at liberty to interpret those actions. I only ask for the same liberty I give to all men , a free mind to judge the acts and thoughts of other people

If we interrupt people’s actions through love, we will probably see love if love is there. If we interpret people’s actions through our personal bias, we will probably see our bias which we may have accepted as a norm verses what it really is. If we interrupt people’s actions through selflessness, we will probably see Christians or non-Christians doing the right thing regardless of who gets the recognition because doing so is the right thing to do. If we interpret people’s actions through a Christ mind, we will probably observe the good, the bad and the ugly, but we will most likely focus on the good and not feed the bad.

[kaptonok]

Eye4magic We cannot help but have a personal viewpoint.
'By their fruits ye shall know them' That means us you and me and it was first said by a great teacher.
The same teacher said ' Love your enemies' and he succeeded in doing just that.
Now that I cannot do ; when I see an Isis fighter behead an innocent man I hate him for it and I could kill him outright for such a deed.
As for selflessness very few reach that sort of enlightenment.
The mind of Christ was unique and his teaching revolutionary.

[eye4magic]

We cannot help but have a personal viewpoint.

I would agree but we are capable of not allowing our bias or viewpoint to control and define us just in case that viewpoint is not working toward our highest good.

The same teacher said ' Love your enemies' and he succeeded in doing just that.
Now that I cannot do ; when I see an Isis fighter behead an innocent man I hate him for it and I could kill him outright for such a deed.

I think hating the sin and not the sinner helps us disassociate the real from the unreal. Granted, it can be difficult, but it’s doable and it’s probably the subject of a different debate.

As for selflessness very few reach that sort of enlightenment.

You might be surprised if you look for it in people without a bias. Sometimes what we see in others is just what we expect to see through our bias because we allow our bias to define us. It takes a lot of courage to step outside of our personal comfort zones and as Luke put it our "neat little box" -- but it's doable.

The mind of Christ was unique and his teaching revolutionary.

It was revolutionary indeed and I would submit that when we truly integrate this principle in our life “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus” Philippians 2:5, this too can revolutionize our world, our personal life, our community and onwards.

[kaptonok]

I understand your answer but I must insist we can only be ourselves. It is true we can and do change with time.
For me a man or woman is mainly defined by their actions and this means the vast majority of us are a mixture of good and bad. We can be moved to improve ourselves by the example of others, but our examples might be leaders of Isis: what then eh?
We can also be deluded by the example of others into believing almost anything.
Its a wonder to me just how we got through history but the gore and bloodshed was enormous.
I cannot have the mind of Christ or anyone else but I can explore the thoughts or at least those I can understand.
Christians make sense of the world by exploring the history of the Jews and in the new testament the acts and thoughts of Jesus with a commentary by Paul That fine by me where I find seperation from them is they seek to fit the universe into the Bible instead of fitting the Bible into the universe. I try to be pragmatic and the universe and people often puzzle me because I have no fixed viewpoint.

[eye4magic]

I understand your answer but I must insist we can only be ourselves. It is true we can and do change with time.

I don’t think we have to be a victim to ourselves or our negative habit patterns or negative thoughts and behavior. It appears that we can willfully change our negative habits, thoughts, opinions, etc., that may not be serving our life in a positive way.

For me a man or woman is mainly defined by their actions and this means the vast majority of us are a mixture of good and bad. We can be moved to improve ourselves by the example of others, but our examples might be leaders of Isis: what then eh?

Evil can only prevail IF good men do nothing. What then you ask? Good people, rational people must act and not just be a spectator of life.

We can also be deluded by the example of others into believing almost anything.

It’s difficult to delude rational, moral, reasoning and well balanced minds.

Its a wonder to me just how we got through history but the gore and bloodshed was enormous.

I think we got through it and will probably continue to go through it because overall most of civilization past and present sense a higher spiritual purpose to life and strive to be part of it come what may.

I cannot have the mind of Christ or anyone else but I can explore the thoughts or at least those I can understand.

Well, exploring could be positive, like a “mustard seed” which starts out small, and if you like what you find, you can continue.

Christians make sense of the world by exploring the history of the Jews and in the new testament the acts and thoughts of Jesus with a commentary by Paul That fine by me where I find seperation from them is they seek to fit the universe into the Bible instead of fitting the Bible into the universe.

I think what most Christians see is the wonder and majestic order of the universe explained through the spiritual teachings of the Bible.

I try to be pragmatic and the universe and people often puzzle me because I have no fixed viewpoint.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a fixed point of view if its based on integrity and truth.

[kaptonok]

Excellent answers but you are rooted to an internal rock which you cling onto come what may.
I have no such rock, my endeavour is to see the human world as it is in all its rawness.
I do not have your optimistic sense of balanced minds having seen intelligence twisted for evil purposes.
I examine myself in the hope of unearthing any unbalance for I know there are many pitfalls as we read in pillgrims progress.
I envy your contentedness but I would say beware " he who thinks he stands beware lest he fall"

[eye4magic]

Excellent answers but you are rooted to an internal rock which you cling onto come what may.

Being rooted in optimism seems to help us deal with both positive and negative circumstances more effectively come what may.

I do not have your optimistic sense of balanced minds having seen intelligence twisted for evil purposes.

Your observation that some minds are twisted with evil purposes (which I don't disagree with), does not mean that most minds are twisted and have evil purposes. If all you observe in your community and immediate environment are people with twisted minds and evil purposes, you might consider changing your environment

[kaptonok]

We must agree to differ on somethings as most thinking persons do. Perhaps my outlook is somewhat pessimistic but I would call it realistic I try to refuse to look through rose-tinted glasses at anything. Let me say that those with genuine rose-tinted eyesight do not worry me but it's those who cannot remove the vision impairing specticals that worry me most. I believe ( but I have no proof ) that you are one of the fortunate ones with rose- tinted vision. Out outlook will depend on our background and inheritance mine has been a rocky ride but now in the twilight I have attained a certain sense of peace.

[eye4magic]

I try to refuse to look through rose-tinted glasses at anything.

Humm, that appears to be a viewpoint. Yet you also state above, “I have no fixed viewpoint.”

The brains of happy people are tuned to notice and enjoy the positives in life that may pass others by, according to research that may explain why some folk seem to go about wearing rose-tinted spectacles.

Brain scans of volunteers who scored high on a standard test for happiness showed activity in regions that reinforced their happy dispositions and set them up for a "cycle of positivity", scientists said.

The positive outlook on life was not a reflection of naivety or ignorance of the world's threats and dangers, they said, but an enhanced response to positive events and the opportunities around them.

"People with rose-tinted glasses are more responsive to positive things in the environment. But it's not at the expense of the negatives in life. They're not seeing the positives in everything, but they see the positives where they can find them," Dr Cunningham said.

"They extract both types of meaning from the world and probably have a better life because of it."

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...py-rose-tinted

I have attained a certain sense of peace.

Bravo

[kaptonok]

I say again you are too smart for me and quickly unearth my mistakes. I am genuine but I cannot always claim consistency my consolation is that very few can.