Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43
  1. #1
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    By now, I'm sure everyone has read a little about the Duggar (of 21 kids fame) family and the horrible story of one of the family members, Josh Duggar, who was caught molesting his own sisters and some other girls. What this story also reveals is a sordid trail of sexual politics linking many GOP politicians, including some running for President, most famously Huckabee who defended Josh over the weekend.

    The family initially hid the heinous acts from the police but opened up to their Church, who recommended 'counseling' (aka hiding a crime from the authorities). This group that supposedly helped Josh is also connected to Hobby Lobby (src) also the group behind the successful SCOTUS case to prevent women from getting contraceptives from the ObamaCare act.

    When they finally reported the incident to the police, after over a year (src), the State Trooper who let Josh go, was alter convicted of possessing child pornography (src). And after the statute of limitations ran out (what a surprise) it appears that Josh has escaped legal punishment.

    It should also be noted that Duggar has since resigned from The Family Research Council, a hate group politically active in anti-gay politics (src). FRC, entered the national stage when their founder, George Rekers, was caught taking a vacation with a rent-boy (only to carry his bags and some stroking - src).

    In addition, the political connections of the Duggar family was brought to the fore with Huckabee publicly claiming he stood by the family (src) and indeed he did as the Judge with Ties to Mike Huckabee Orders the Destruction of Josh Duggar’s Police Report. The connections between Josh Duggar and GOP politicians are widely known (and recounted in Republicans’ Josh Duggar problem) which only makes the 2016 debates even more interesting as they now have to choose whether to continue support of a child-molester and their hateful family who protected him for his crimes.

    While I'm sure the rest of the Duggar family are as well adjusted one can be coming from a highly religious home, their hypocrisy in the handling of the case, and the use and abuse of political power, as well as their connections to various hate groups is now out in the open. The Christian Right are yet again exposed for the moral frauds that many people have always known them to be. What wasn't clear and is now very apparent is that the religious right apparently have little truck with secular law and subvert and protect their own - it is lucky in today's day and age that we have the internet to expose these people and spread this story of religious corruption and political favors as they try and make the world into their own twisted image.

    So, now that the dangers of publicly mixing politics with religion have been exposed, should the GOP listen to Goldwater who said:

    “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

    Huckabee, Jindal, Santorum and politicians of their ilk need to get of politics and hopefully, this Duggar incident and their connections to known hate groups could be the wedge that will bring about the end of right-wing conservative Christians meddling in the affairs of American politics.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    9,438
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    What exactly is the "danger" that you are referring to?

    Is it a danger to us all? Or it is the danger for candidates who ally with certain famous Christians who may lose favor with the population, thereby harming the candidate's chances of election? Or is it some other kind of danger?

  3. #3
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    What exactly is the "danger" that you are referring to?
    Depends -

    Is it a danger to us all?
    Yes, if the Drugars, the hate groups and Hobby Lobby-like businesses get their way. I'm hoping that this will Duggar affair will begin to remove the facade of morality from the Christian Right. Perhaps that that are truly moral will drop their support of the Duggars and the associated politicians and people in power that enabled them to hide this sordid crime. Perhaps we'll get less of the inflammatory language about wars against Christianity and all the nonsense that the right-wing like to peddle as an argument against 'goberment over-reach'.

    Or it is the danger for candidates who ally with certain famous Christians who may lose favor with the population, thereby harming the candidate's chances of election?
    For sure, in fact I'm very much looking forward to how Huckabee and Cruz explain their support of the guy given how they have used their religion to hide a crime, and political power to hide from public scrutiny.

    Or is it some other kind of danger?
    Yes, to themselves and to their family. Just reading about their sexual morality (which has been described as almost a formalized rape culture leading to incidents such as this - The Duggars: How Fundamentalism's Teachings on Sexuality Create Predatory Behavior) makes me wonder how many of these incidents there have been, all equally suppressed. In fact, it reminds me of the What should Jack do thread which laughingly now suggests "Jack has no particular religious or spiritual belief system. His morals are upside down and he has justified murdering his victim. ". Now it is apparent that a religious belief system not only creates a culture of sexual crime but also protects it from secular law. Quite disgraceful but I'm glad it's all out in the open.

    Most of all from the perspective of an atheist, this whole "Quiverfull" business and all the groups associated with the Duggars, it truly shows that Christopher Hitchens was right - religion poisons everything. It certainly poisons politics with the likes of Huckabee, Jindal, Santorum and top some extent Cruz. It poisons society against ludicrous fears against The Gay, women's sexuality, the environment (see a recent blog - As a Conservative, Evangelical Republican, Why Climate Change Can’t be True (Even Though It Is) - for a idea of what goes on in the indoctrinated Christian mind). It poisons the people that are convinced their particular cultish ideas are true, their family (as the Duggars have shown the world) and people that know and support them. The Duggars and other overtly 'Christian' families such as the Duck Dynasty frauds, are just scandals waiting to happen, showing religion and the religious at their absolute worst.

    So, all of the above (and probably more I haven't thought of yet).

  4. #4
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    One more danger is to the Creationists that are peeking their noses into this. Not only is doctrine already nonsensical but they reveal themselves as poor thinkers too:

    Creationist Eric Hovind: If evolution is true, then it wasn’t wrong for Josh Duggar to molest his sisters
    Hovind, whose Creationist father is current in prison, said:

    “If evolution is true, then there is no absolute right and wrong,” Hovind said. “If evolution is true Josh should not have admitted his faults over a decade ago because what one evolved bag of molecules does to another bag of molecules just doesn’t really matter. If evolution is true there is no ultimate Judge on the bench who will hold every man, woman, and child responsible for their actions. And if evolution is true you will not give an account for every idle word you speak.”

    Sigh, just because his father is a criminal he's now projecting the lack of morality onto those that are criticizing the Duggar family!

    Even the famous "Banana Man", Ray Comfort feels he has to chime in:

    Standing by my friend Josh Duggar, as a brother in Christ. This was in his BC days. Such were some of us.
    — Ray Comfort (@raycomfort) May 24, 2015


    He's weirdly claiming that Josh wasn't really a Christian when he was committing the molestations! Somehow a lifetime of Christian indoctrination wasn't sufficient to qualify. I also wonder what skeletons were in Comfort's "BC days".

    In tying their versions of Christianity into defending the Duggars, these guys are actually tying a noose around their own necks. Perhaps this could take down the entire edifice of non-sensical "Christian" thought. What's Ken Ham have to say about all this? Given that the Duggars also visited his Creation Museum, thus giving him the publicity he sorely needs, will Ham return the favor?

  5. #5
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Posts
    7,068
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    JJ, got a say this comes of pretty shrill. The religious right of this variety is loosing the culture war one bit at a time, mostly because most of the younger generation see through a lot of their ******** and are a pretty accepting bunch. And good for them.

    There will always be religious hard liners and while you have to be on guard, you also have to understand most of them are human beings not robot christian political warriors.

    This was a 15 year old kid living in a house chock full of girls and being taught all kinds of crap. He gets on a bad path and starts feeling up girls while they sleep. Creepy and wrong but not the worst a 15 year old can do. Whatever they did seems to largely have worked and he's not known for feeling up kids any more. The family did what most families would do and tried to cover it all up and keep it quiet and give their kid what chance they could. Probably what I'd have done had I a son in this situation. Different if he'd violently hurt someone, but as it is he's a young man not taught a healthy way to deal with puberty. I remember what it was like at that age.

    When you come with the pitchforks and torches you seem a bit out of touch with the challenges of actual life and making politics of what is essentially pretty personal and challenging family trouble. Yes, the Duggars put them selves out there in more ways than one, but ultimately private family life is still just that and trying to drag them around in the noonday sun and treating this guy like he was a hardened criminal seems really petty and mean spirited.

    Happy to call the Duggars ******** whenever one of them opens their mouth publicly and vomits some hate or lies, but aside form that, they seem like people that care a lot about one another and I wish them well. And that includes not getting judged by a bunch of yahoos on the internet.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  6. Thanks Lukecash12 thanked for this post
  7. #6
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    JJ, got a say this comes of pretty shrill. The religious right of this variety is loosing the culture war one bit at a time, mostly because most of the younger generation see through a lot of their ******** and are a pretty accepting bunch. And good for them.
    This is true but these kinds of cases, Bill O'Reilly last week and the Duggars for the next few weeks are good reminders and lessons to point to. It's not 'shrill' to point out the failings of religious thinking but this is a multi fronted discussion. The fall of far right Christian thinking is merely a small portion of the story.

    There will always be religious hard liners and while you have to be on guard, you also have to understand most of them are human beings not robot christian political warriors.
    I don't think its the religious hard-liners that beat their children or teach them the weird sexual moralities. See The Duggars: How Fundamentalism's Teachings on Sexuality Create Predatory Behavior for information about how the Duggar story isn't entirely unexpected. Unfortunately, it is the weakest among us, the children that end up suffering the most. And women are hardly living a modern life enjoyed by most - they are merely pent-up breeding vessels. So I have to reject the use of the term 'hard liner' here - it's pretty much what the whole life is about!

    This was a 15 year old kid living in a house chock full of girls and being taught all kinds of crap. He gets on a bad path and starts feeling up girls while they sleep. Creepy and wrong but not the worst a 15 year old can do. Whatever they did seems to largely have worked and he's not known for feeling up kids any more. The family did what most families would do and tried to cover it all up and keep it quiet and give their kid what chance they could. Probably what I'd have done had I a son in this situation. Different if he'd violently hurt someone, but as it is he's a young man not taught a healthy way to deal with puberty. I remember what it was like at that age.
    Again, please read the article above - the sex-shaming is what caused this. It is the culture of sexual abstinence and likely sexual ignorance that has a hand in this. That aside, some of the touching wasn't on his sleeping sisters but there was also forcible molestation - that's not creepy and wrong, it is criminal behavior. Perhaps inflamed by his parent's teachings, perhaps from his own sociopathic tendencies, but it is not some small infraction.

    This crime was deliberately hidden from the authorities for well over a year and likely only came to light as the other girls' parents threatened to do so themselves. There is much that we don't know but to pass it off as a minor indiscretion is ignoring that much that is clear in this story that the girls did not get the justice the deserved. There have been multiple quotes from the parents and Josh himself from around the time that knowing what they know is most distasteful. So I have very little sympathy for the parents and Josh.


    When you come with the pitchforks and torches you seem a bit out of touch with the challenges of actual life and making politics of what is essentially pretty personal and challenging family trouble. Yes, the Duggars put them selves out there in more ways than one, but ultimately private family life is still just that and trying to drag them around in the noonday sun and treating this guy like he was a hardened criminal seems really petty and mean spirited.
    What rubbish - the Duggars are a public spectacle - they put themselves out there for all the world to see whilst earning millions. And doing so to promote their moral superiority over others on the one hand, whilst engaging in hiding crimes and committing hate crimes on the other! They are entirely engaged in the public political activities in the hate against gays (recall Josh was a member of The Family Research Council, a hate group active in anti-gay politics) so the political haymaking is what they've been doing already. The family has absolutely no right to privacy over this - their brand is being destroyed not by pitchforks and torches but by their own lies and hypocrisy.

    And don't mistake that is a new story about some poor, otherwise wonderful, family whose son just made some small mistake as a child. This is a son who grew up to engage himself publicly and politically, using his family's political capital and fame in order to promote hate against others (you do know he just resigned from the anti-gay hate group Family Research Council, right?). He's already carrying the pitchfork - that he gets to feel what it's like on the other end of the pitchfork perhaps will teach him to treat others better. People in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones but that's what he chose to do. This is just Karma in action.

    Happy to call the Duggars ******** whenever one of them opens their mouth publicly and vomits some hate or lies, but aside form that, they seem like people that care a lot about one another and I wish them well. And that includes not getting judged by a bunch of yahoos on the internet.
    It's a huge strike against creationism, conservative politics and religious social conservatism all in one neat little suicide vest that they put on themselves. If they hadn't been so terrible to others then perhaps they wouldn't be reaping this criticism. And let's not forget that this story, much like the Bill Cosby story, has been known for quite a while (Oprah canceled her interview with them in 2006) - it was only a matter of time this came out. Just in time for 2016 too.

    Also, I'm not judging - I am arguing that their terrible religion and terrible lifestyle and terrible politics is dangerous and wrong for the country; they shouldn't be held up as a moral yardstick for people to measure themselves with. The loss of the Duggar family on TLC means that perhaps people can rethink about their own lives and how they should live it.

  8. #7
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Posts
    7,068
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    You are doing more than making arguments about the principles you think are wrong, you are making personal attacks on real people and engaging in public shaming of peoples private lives. You seem to have a glee in it to boot and it discolors what good you might hope to argue for.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  9. Thanks Lukecash12 thanked for this post
  10. #8
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    You are doing more than making arguments about the principles you think are wrong, you are making personal attacks on real people and engaging in public shaming of peoples private lives. You seem to have a glee in it to boot and it discolors what good you might hope to argue for.
    People who attack others for their own personal lives don't really deserve a private life - Rutger, the founder of the hate group he belonged to learned that lesson too. People who do so for personal gain and political power and privilege deserve it even less. Besides, the fact that Josh Duggar isn't on a sex offender list is a huge problem - now he is and justice is done. Perhaps if his parents did the right thing in the first place rather than thinking about their fame and fortune, they wouldn't have to reap this reward. As I said, Karma - the scales of justice is now restored.

    The correction of an injustice done by a man dedicated to hating others has a certain satisfaction but I wouldn't go as far as glee. It's weird to take pleasure in incestual molestations, there were children harmed in this don't forget.

    Now, Huckabee being put on the spot in a Presidential debate? That, I freely admit, I would take pleasure in seeing him squirm.
    Last edited by JimJones8934; May 26th, 2015 at 07:13 AM.

  11. #9
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    In the gift that just keeps giving we now have the Duggar patriarch caught in a quandary:

    Duggar Patriarch Ran for Senate Saying People Should Die for Committing Incest

    Q. What is your abortion position, and specifically, where do you stand on rape, incest, and threat to the mother’s health?

    A. If a woman is raped, the rapist should be executed instead of the innocent unborn baby. Adoption is an option. Many couples would love to adopt and are waiting for a baby. Abortion has been and always will be the destruction of an innocent child. Rape and incest represent heinous crimes and as such should be treated as capital crimes. The developing infant committed no crime and should be allowed to live. In the unlikely event that the life of both mother and baby would both be lost (for example, a tubal pregnancy) all should be done to save the life of the mother.

    So what would be his position now that his own son has been caught in such a heinous crime?

  12. #10
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Posts
    7,068
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    People who attack others for their own personal lives don't really deserve a private life - Rutger, the founder of the hate group he belonged to learned that lesson too.
    It is one thing to take a stand that you think a particular act is bad, its another to persecute an individual for it publicly. In the former it is a matter of public debate and a clash of ideas, in the other it is a personal attack. I don't know allot about these hate groups you mention but I don't know that they singled out individuals for attack and shaming.

    OK, if Josh Duggar was hunting down individual gay people and shaming them in public media then its tit for tat, but if instead he is arguing that he things homosexuality is immoral than that is a different case.

    Besides, the fact that Josh Duggar isn't on a sex offender list is a huge problem - now he is and justice is done.
    14 year old's who groped their sister don't generally go on sex offender lists. Juveniles get treated differently in criminal justice and for good reason. This is not a kid running around raping people. He was a frustrated teen acting out sexual desires, scaring some kids no doubt but not doing them serious harm. Trying to put him on a sex offender list for what he did at 14 is nuts unless he was doing something seriously depraved and dangerous.

    Perhaps if his parents did the right thing in the first place rather than thinking about their fame and fortune, they wouldn't have to reap this reward. As I said, Karma - the scales of justice is now restored.
    They did do more or less the right thing. They put a stop to the behavior and got him some help so he would realize it was wrong and not do it again. What harm exactly do you think was done by the treatment he got? Do you think anyone was put in great danger? Do you think that a 14 year old who grows up with religious nut jobs teaching him crap about sexuality deserves to go to prison and suffer social stigma for the rest of his life? Really do you think that is best?

    The correction of an injustice done by a man dedicated to hating others has a certain satisfaction but I wouldn't go as far as glee. It's weird to take pleasure in incestual molestations, there were children harmed in this don't forget.
    Not harmed all that much man. He groped some girls. They can survive the groping I think. Its wrong no doubt but its not like he raped them or injured them.

    ---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones8934 View Post
    So what would be his position now that his own son has been caught in such a heinous crime?
    Grabbing your sisters boobs is not incest.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  13. Thanks Lukecash12 thanked for this post
  14. #11
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    It is one thing to take a stand that you think a particular act is bad, its another to persecute an individual for it publicly. In the former it is a matter of public debate and a clash of ideas, in the other it is a personal attack. I don't know allot about these hate groups you mention but I don't know that they singled out individuals for attack and shaming.
    I think I've seen more criticism of how his parents handled it and the corruption of the police and the role of their particular cultish Church and the business connections surrounding it. Josh himself loses his moral high ground and loses his job from the hate group and merely has to not show his face in public again: his role is over and if he keeps quiet then he won't be attacked.


    OK, if Josh Duggar was hunting down individual gay people and shaming them in public media then its tit for tat, but if instead he is arguing that he things homosexuality is immoral than that is a different case.
    He's the second high-level figurte from that group that has had to step down. The attack isn't so much on Duggar but on the hate group that he represented. Seriously, who cares about one guy who has already self-imploded - this is about exposing the hypocrisy of these kinds of Christian hate groups.


    14 year old's who groped their sister don't generally go on sex offender lists. Juveniles get treated differently in criminal justice and for good reason. This is not a kid running around raping people. He was a frustrated teen acting out sexual desires, scaring some kids no doubt but not doing them serious harm. Trying to put him on a sex offender list for whtat he did at 14 is nuts unless he was doing something seriously depraved and dangerous.
    I don't know about that - 'Sexting' lands teen on sex offender list from 2009 says otherwise. Granted, America's puritanical attitudes towards sex is responsible but let's be consistent here: what's good for the Christian goose is good for the Christian gander. And again, I understand the kid's frustrations born out of his repressive and ignorant Christian upbringing and I get that he could well be as much of a victim of that. I think you're overplaying your angle that you think I'm just attacking this guy - look back at my posts and you'll see he represents only a small portion of the blame.

    That said, he's not blameless, he's not an 'innocent', he was old enough to understand the wrong that he was doing, most especially since it had been drummed into him. But his punishment has been delved out and so long as he keeps himself from the the public pulpit, particularly in joining more hate groups and preaching his religion's particular brand of bigotry, I'm good. As I've said, Karma has been restored - there is no need to vilify him any further.

    That doesn't mean that his case can't be brought up again and again as lead into the main culprits here - his religion, his Church, associated businesses, and the politicians that feed on the Christian hate machine.

    They did do more or less the right thing. They put a stop to the behavior and got him some help so he would realize it was wrong and not do it again. What harm exactly do you think was done by the treatment he got? Do you think anyone was put in great danger? Do you think that a 14 year old who grows up with religious nut jobs teaching him crap about sexuality deserves to go to prison and suffer social stigma for the rest of his life? Really do you think that is best?
    Firstly, the stigma will always be there - he earned that by tapping into the power and fame of his family. You can't go about moralizing whilst having sexually molested some girls and your own sisters. That's at least two taboos which have been broken.

    Without the full timeline, I'm not sure whether the family did the right thing. Perhaps they tried to hide it and failed, and then went to their Church and failed and then they were forced to go to the authorities only when they were sure to get away with it and after the statute of limitations had run out: you don't think they lawyered up and figured out how to suppress this with their powerful political connections?


    Not harmed all that much man. He groped some girls. They can survive the groping I think. Its wrong no doubt but its not like he raped them or injured them.
    And his victims? His own sisters who were likely forced into silence and the other girls similarly bribed or threatened? His actions set off a chain of reactions that no doubt has harmed these young girls in ways that we cannot imagine. Or, as one conservative blogger put it, perhaps they were just 'playing doctor', which raises the whole incest thing to a new level.

    Anyway, I'm not so much interested in the particulars of what happened - I want to know how the parents suppressed it for so long and how they got the police chief to destroy the records (possibly through Huckabee, whose run for president is not seeing favor with Fox News - http://njtoday.net/2015/05/25/110651/).

    Grabbing your sisters boobs is not incest.
    Not just boobs but let's leave it at - does there actually have to be penetration for it to be gross?

  15. #12
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,176
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Sigh, just because his father is a criminal he's now projecting the lack of morality onto those that are criticizing the Duggar family!
    A complete breakdown in reasoning skills on your part here. Nothing you said follows.

    ---on to the duggars

    It is pretty amazing how you are faulting people who brought their own son into the police. I also reject the idea that it was "covered up", because none of their actions indicate a cover up of a crime and it isn't against the law to not report this sort of "Peek and see" of children. Unless of course you think that all the school kids who grabbed at a young girl's ass during school should have been on some sex offenders list for life.

    I think you are showing a stunning amount of naivete on the raising of children and the general challenges faced by many kids dealing with their sexuality. I see a bunch of people working themselves into a tizzy over what amounts to a non crime among children. That the left is so willing to brand an adult for their actions as a child is.. well.. expected honestly, when it is their political opponents.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  16. Thanks Lukecash12, Squatch347 thanked for this post
  17. #13
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    A complete breakdown in reasoning skills on your part here. Nothing you said follows.

    ---on to the duggars
    Eric Hovind defends Josh Duggar by perversely saying that if evolution was true then it would have been OK to do it. I am suggesting that he's projecting his own shame of his criminal father (the more famous Kent Hovind, Creationist extraordinaire turned tax dodger). Sounds reasonable - people do that.


    It is pretty amazing how you are faulting people who brought their own son into the police. I also reject the idea that it was "covered up", because none of their actions indicate a cover up of a crime and it isn't against the law to not report this sort of "Peek and see" of children. Unless of course you think that all the school kids who grabbed at a young girl's ass during school should have been on some sex offenders list for life.
    After over a year! And in the intervening time, he likely did it again despite the Church's help except that he did it to people outside of the parent's control - i.e. to someone other than the family. This isn't peek and see - there were reports of violence. But go ahead and just minimize the act as much as you like. The sordid details really don't interest me as much as you'd like to think they do. Josh is a bit player in a much larger story and he did his part to expose hypocrisy and political favors at every level.

    I think you are showing a stunning amount of naivete on the raising of children and the general challenges faced by many kids dealing with their sexuality. I see a bunch of people working themselves into a tizzy over what amounts to a non crime among children. That the left is so willing to brand an adult for their actions as a child is.. well.. expected honestly, when it is their political opponents.
    This is a self inflicted wound by people following whatever ludicrous beliefs they think their God is telling them. They profit off their purity whilst suppressing the results of their own religion's sexual suppression and sexual ignorance.

    More importantly, as I have already pointed out, Josh's role is done - he has exposed the right wing Gay hate groups, with Hobby Lobby and their perversions about women, with right-wing Christian conservatism, police corruption and most of all, the failure of religion to prevent any of this (indeed their religious beliefs caused this). Whatever he did as a child will likely remain a secret though something tells me we're still not getting the full story.

    And, yes, when a hateful man who preaches hate falls then those connected to him fall also. Josh is a political corpse but the groups he is associated with are still around (except perhaps Huckabee) and while the taint of the Duggar family remains on them any moral preachings these people have will fall on deaf ears.

  18. #14
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,176
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Sounds reasonable - people do that.
    I know that is what you said, twice now.. but it doesn't follow at all.
    Your taking a very psychological reading of that sentence, and it doesn't mean or imply anything like you are forwarding. It is in all ways logically unconnected to the conclusion you are drawing.

    So, unless you want to explain "how", you are offering absolutely nothing of value on that matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    After over a year!
    O,when you yell it it makes more sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Josh is a bit player in a much larger story and he did his part to expose hypocrisy and political favors at every level.
    Again you have repeated this, but again you offer no "how" for which others can evaluate your claim.
    I have no clue what you are talking about or how one would reasonably come to that conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    This is a self inflicted wound by people following whatever ludicrous beliefs they think their God is telling them. They profit off their purity whilst suppressing the results of their own religion's sexual suppression and sexual ignorance.
    Interesting theory, any logical support for that at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    More importantly, as I have already pointed out, Josh's role is done
    I know you say your "Pointing out" things, but you have little more than rants here. Your on a soap box, not a logic train that others can follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    he has exposed the right wing Gay hate groups, with Hobby Lobby and their perversions about women, with right-wing Christian conservatism, police corruption and most of all, the failure of religion to prevent any of this (indeed their religious beliefs caused this). Whatever he did as a child will likely remain a secret though something tells me we're still not getting the full story.
    o.K. soap box man, what did he expose? How is it connected? What is systemic about the actions of a 14 year old boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    And, yes, when a hateful man who preaches hate falls then those connected to him fall also. Josh is a political corpse but the groups he is associated with are still around (except perhaps Huckabee) and while the taint of the Duggar family remains on them any moral preachings these people have will fall on deaf ears.
    Yea to those who think the character of the person making a claim is relevant to the claims they are making.
    Here we call it an Ad-hominem logical fallacy, but in general society it is fairly standard practice of the media and those who consume it to accept such drivel as sound reasoning.

    If that is all your forwarding for your support then you should not be surprised when your argument falls on deaf ears here.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  19. #15
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I know that is what you said, twice now.. but it doesn't follow at all.
    Your taking a very psychological reading of that sentence, and it doesn't mean or imply anything like you are forwarding. It is in all ways logically unconnected to the conclusion you are drawing.

    So, unless you want to explain "how", you are offering absolutely nothing of value on that matter.
    You don't think that his weird views on evolution don't have anything to do with his father, a fame Creationist? That he doesn't blame the ills of the world on 'evolution' and how his world view is (somehow) more moral? That's kinda how Fundie mentality works.

    Perhaps he sees a kindred spirit in Josh Duggar who is being similarly impaled by the 'secular' world, much as they did with his father (who is now in prison). In defending Duggar (whose father, the real culprit in all this, is clearly also corrupt and hypocritical (capital punishment for incest)) he is revealing some of his own inner workings.

    But that's just my clearly armchair psychological analysis - it can't be easy to see your Dad go to prison. Perhaps Creationists just say crazy things about 'bags of molecules' anyway so I freely admit that part is pure speculation. Ignore the connection to the father if you wish, the important connection is all the cultists are coming out of the wood work. Time to stomp on them.


    O,when you yell it it makes more sense.
    I learned that from Bill O'Reilly, another establishment figure that can't even keep his family together. I think it gets through to right-wingers better (no offense).


    Again you have repeated this, but again you offer no "how" for which others can evaluate your claim.
    I have no clue what you are talking about or how one would reasonably come to that conclusion.
    How is easy - his father is powerful and politically connected and he is also rich and famous. He clearly used all that to get his son off. That's what Josh's story tells us about the Duggar patriarch.


    Interesting theory, any logical support for that at all?
    Yes - it's called reality. They clearly make a great deal of money off their now canceled TV show peddling how sexually 'pure' (aka ignorant) they are. From an earlier article,The Duggars: How Fundamentalism's Teachings on Sexuality Create Predatory Behavior, the author, a lawyer in Fundie cases, suggests that their religion contributes strongly to these kinds of behaviors. So they're peddling Quiverfull snake oil whilst clearly lying about its efficacy.


    I know you say your "Pointing out" things, but you have little more than rants here. Your on a soap box, not a logic train that others can follow.
    You may be jumping into the middle here - I have cited many articles and connections.

    o.K. soap box man, what did he expose? How is it connected? What is systemic about the actions of a 14 year old boy?
    Nothing about the actions of the boy but more about the terrible life-style of Christian Fundamentalism that lead to his molestations. Of his own sisters for goodness sakes. Perhaps that's considered 'normal' where you come from but where I come from it's totally gross.

    Secondly, that he got away with it when his father presented him to the State Trooper (who is in prison for pedophilia) and after the statute of limitations ran out clearly shows corruption. That the chief of police destroyed the report is connected to Huckabee, who publicly defended Josh over the weekend, shows that having friends is powerful places is very useful. That Josh himself is the second high profile member of the hate group FRC to resign shows these groups care nothing of 'morality' nor have any sense of living in a glass house and should be consistently exposed as such. The connections seem pretty obvious.


    Yea to those who think the character of the person making a claim is relevant to the claims they are making.
    Here we call it an Ad-hominem logical fallacy, but in general society it is fairly standard practice of the media and those who consume it to accept such drivel as sound reasoning.
    Tell that to the Catholic Church, whose pedophile corruption reveals a similar mindset. They just lost big on the gay marriage issue in the second bastion of Catholicism when Ireland voted on the issue.

    Clearly those that are in the business of morality should really be trying to practice what they preach too. As the man begs the public for forgiveness, do you think his victims have truly forgiven him? Or were his sisters forced into silence with the typical heavy hand that Fundie families wield towards women?

    Call it whatever you want but the Duggars have been exposed as corrupt hypocrites - they were enabled by TLC because they're such a freak show but its time to reveal them as money grabbing. We could do with better moral leaders - it may well be an ad hominem but practicing what you preach is a bit of a job requirement in the morality game.

    If that is all your forwarding for your support then you should not be surprised when your argument falls on deaf ears here.
    What do you understand my argument to be? I'm saying that Christian Fundamentalism is rotten to the core, produces terrible people with terrible thoughts and now terrible sexual deeds (which according to above article is enabled by their perverse sexual morality).

    I wouldn't care what people do to themselves but they are harming children and entering into American politics. At that point they have crossed the line of privacy and deserve all the retribution for their corruption and hypocrisy. Huckabee is already going down for this, even in the Fox News world. No-one likes an incest story and there is clearly much more to be told there but it's very clear indeed that there have been abuses of power.
    Last edited by JimJones8934; May 27th, 2015 at 05:18 AM.

  20. #16
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,176
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    You don't think that his weird views on evolution don't have anything to do with his father, a fame Creationist?
    No, they have to do with the ideas it carries. His observation is correct. On evolution(naturalism) there is no inherent moral code for one to appeal to. The moral outrage by those
    who hold to that position is unfounded and nothing more than your personal taste you wish to force upon others.
    It's o.k. just own it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    the important connection is all the cultists are coming out of the wood work. Time to stomp on them.
    If your idea of "stomping" them is to attack them personally, then I would say that is par for the course and nothing new for the left.
    If however you mean to show their ideas to be false... then that would be something very new indeed, especially from the left who seem to be more interested in personal attacks and emotional appeals.
    A few pitch forks and torches and you could have a nice lynch mob of lefties any day of the week.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    I learned that from Bill O'Reilly, another establishment figure that can't even keep his family together. I think it gets through to right-wingers better (no offense).
    No offense taken, no amount of name dropping can give credibility to your baseless claims.
    You may wish to yell it louder, or attach the tactic to someone even more well known, but your point is no more supported and you lose credibility to people who think.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    How is easy - his father is powerful and politically connected and he is also rich and famous. He clearly used all that to get his son off. That's what Josh's story tells us about the Duggar patriarch.
    O, It's clear you say.
    That is support How?

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Yes - it's called reality. They clearly make a great deal of money off their now canceled TV show peddling how sexually 'pure' (aka ignorant) they are. From an earlier article,The Duggars: How Fundamentalism's Teachings on Sexuality Create Predatory Behavior, the author, a lawyer in Fundie cases, suggests that their religion contributes strongly to these kinds of behaviors. So they're peddling Quiverfull snake oil whilst clearly lying about its efficacy.
    So one claim is supported by another claim? I bet you could string those along all day having offered no support along the way.
    I'm not chasing that bouncing ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Nothing about the actions of the boy but more about the terrible life-style of Christian Fundamentalism that lead to his molestations. Of his own sisters for goodness sakes. Perhaps that's considered 'normal' where you come from but where I come from it's totally gross.

    Secondly, that he got away with it when his father presented him to the State Trooper (who is in prison for pedophilia) and after the statute of limitations ran out clearly shows corruption. That the chief of police destroyed the report is connected to Huckabee, who publicly defended Josh over the weekend, shows that having friends is powerful places is very useful. That Josh himself is the second high profile member of the hate group FRC to resign shows these groups care nothing of 'morality' nor have any sense of living in a glass house and should be consistently exposed as such. The connections seem pretty obvious.
    I don't think you answered any of my questions.
    What did he expose.
    How is it connected
    What is systemic about the actions of a 14 year old boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Tell that to the Catholic Church, whose pedophile corruption reveals a similar mindset. They just lost big on the gay marriage issue in the second bastion of Catholicism when Ireland voted on the issue.

    Clearly those that are in the business of morality should really be trying to practice what they preach too. As the man begs the public for forgiveness, do you think his victims have truly forgiven him? Or were his sisters forced into silence with the typical heavy hand that Fundie families wield towards women?

    Call it whatever you want but the Duggars have been exposed as corrupt hypocrites - they were enabled by TLC because they're such a freak show but its time to reveal them as money grabbing. We could do with better moral leaders - it may well be an ad hominem but practicing what you preach is a bit of a job requirement in the morality game.
    So I dismiss this as you admit to it's logical fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    What do you understand my argument to be?
    Incoherent.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    I'm saying that Christian Fundamentalism is rotten to the core, produces terrible people with terrible thoughts and now terrible sexual deeds (which according to above article is enabled by their perverse sexual morality).
    You certainly are saying that. Supporting it and arguing for it is a totally different manner.
    But you seem to be more than capable of repeating it often and loudly.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  21. #17
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    No, they have to do with the ideas it carries. His observation is correct. On evolution(naturalism) there is no inherent moral code for one to appeal to. The moral outrage by those who hold to that position is unfounded and nothing more than your personal taste you wish to force upon others.
    It's o.k. just own it.
    Yes, I am against pedophilia and molesting young girls. And yes, I want to apply that to everyone in the world, even if they vehemently disagree. I also think incest is a disgusting practice. Do you disagree?

    If your idea of "stomping" them is to attack them personally, then I would say that is par for the course and nothing new for the left.
    If however you mean to show their ideas to be false... then that would be something very new indeed, especially from the left who seem to be more interested in personal attacks and emotional appeals.
    A few pitch forks and torches and you could have a nice lynch mob of lefties any day of the week.
    I doubt that it's just lefties attacking Duggar, apparently the family is losing fans and people are disgusted with his behavior. I think if there were an enormous show of support TLC wouldn't be canceling their show.

    O, It's clear you say.
    That is support How?
    By the fact of waiting until the statute of limitations ran out. By the fact that he approached a pedophile to release his son (or that could be coincidence). By the fact his records were destroyed at the behest of a police chief appointed by Huckabee, who declared public support for the Duaggars.

    So one claim is supported by another claim? I bet you could string those along all day having offered no support along the way.
    I'm not chasing that bouncing ball.
    OK. Ignore it then but the stories of Fundie groups and women don't really tell a great story. There are plenty of ex-Quiverfull testimonies of you wish to discuss further.



    I don't think you answered any of my questions.
    What did he expose.
    How is it connected
    What is systemic about the actions of a 14 year old boy?
    I already answered this. The story isn't so much about the boy himself - he is currently a nobody that will likely find it hard to show his face in public again.

    So I dismiss this as you admit to it's logical fallacy.
    Why? The logical fallacy is with those people that can't separate incestual molestors from their message of hating gays. My reasoning, pointing out this fact of life is entirely true. It's been proven by the fall from grace of many a politician or priest.

    You certainly are saying that. Supporting it and arguing for it is a totally different manner.
    But you seem to be more than capable of repeating it often and loudly.
    Well, are you suggesting that Josh Duggar shouldn't have resigned from his job? Do you think that their TV show should be reinstated? I don't see how you can argue what has happened is wrong!

  22. #18
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,176
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Yes, I am against pedophilia and molesting young girls. And yes, I want to apply that to everyone in the world, even if they vehemently disagree. I also think incest is a disgusting practice. Do you disagree?
    Why do you care if I agree or not? So you can bully me if you disagree with my position?
    And
    Do you also intend to persecute people who disagree with all your other personal tastes?
    Also, I think it has already been pointed out that Pedophilia doesn't apply as a term in the case being discussed. Of course, I don't really expect you to make the distinction, as doing so would detract from your emotional appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    I doubt that it's just lefties attacking Duggar, apparently the family is losing fans and people are disgusted with his behavior. I think if there were an enormous show of support TLC wouldn't be canceling their show.
    You wrongfully equate no longer watching a show, with the kind of opposition you have shown here.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    By the fact of waiting until the statute of limitations ran out. By the fact that he approached a pedophile to release his son (or that could be coincidence). By the fact his records were destroyed at the behest of a police chief appointed by Huckabee, who declared public support for the Duaggars.
    An interesting conspiracy theory you have there.
    You figure Huckabee used his influence to sway the law. And this based on his appointment of the police chief?
    What a low floor you have set.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    I already answered this. The story isn't so much about the boy himself - he is currently a nobody that will likely find it hard to show his face in public again.
    Yea, you answered, in that you didn't answer at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Why? The logical fallacy is with those people that can't separate incestual molestors from their message of hating gays. My reasoning, pointing out this fact of life is entirely true. It's been proven by the fall from grace of many a politician or priest.
    Then you don't understand what you admitted to when you agreed that you had appealed to a logical fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Well, are you suggesting that Josh Duggar shouldn't have resigned from his job? Do you think that their TV show should be reinstated? I don't see how you can argue what has happened is wrong!
    Wrong? That people want or don't want to watch a show is irrelevant to me.
    Should he have resigned? Doesn't matter to me either, I'm not in attendance and I don't know them.

    But it seems to matter to you, and you should support whatever your position is.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  23. Thanks Lukecash12 thanked for this post
  24. #19
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,765
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Why do you care if I agree or not? So you can bully me if you disagree with my position?
    And
    Do you also intend to persecute people who disagree with all your other personal tastes?
    Nope, but I do feel particularly strongly when children are involved. The Duggar parents likely could have prevented an attack if they had responded to the authorities sooner rather than waiting for the statute of limitations to run out or seeking a pedophile state trooper to assist in his freedom.

    Also, I think it has already been pointed out that Pedophilia doesn't apply as a term in the case being discussed. Of course, I don't really expect you to make the distinction, as doing so would detract from your emotional appeal.
    I was talking about the state trooper the Duggars went to! Incidentally I retract that they went to him because of the officer's sexual deviancy but it looks like the family knew the guy. However, more news on that front, Jim Bob Duggar LIED:

    The Arkansas state trooper whom the Duggar family, of TLC's "19 Kids and Counting," turned to more than a decade ago to discipline their eldest son after he allegedly fondled underage girls now says the family concealed the extent of their son's behavior from him.

    Former State Trooper Joseph Hutchens, who is currently serving 56 years in prison on child pornography charges, on Wednesday spoke with tabloid magazine In Touch through a local law firm. Hutchens said that he never reported Josh Duggar's alleged sex offenses because patriarch Jim Bob Duggar only told him about a single incident of abuse.
    ...
    Josh Duggar told him Josh had inappropriately touched one girl through her clothing while she slept. They said "it only happened one time," the former state trooper told In Touch.
    ...
    Hutchens told the tabloid that the information played a part in his decision not to report the abuse.
    ...
    “I did what I thought was right and obviously it wasn’t,” he told In Touch. “If I had to do it over again, I would have told him immediately I am going to call the hotline and contacted the trooper that worked those cases and have a full report made. I thought I could handle it myself."

    You wrongfully equate no longer watching a show, with the kind of opposition you have shown here.
    I think they're very connected - the Duggar brand is dead.


    An interesting conspiracy theory you have there.
    You figure Huckabee used his influence to sway the law. And this based on his appointment of the police chief?
    What a low floor you have set.
    No conspiracy is needed - they knew each other very well and were likely both seeking to protect the Duggar family whom both also probably knew well.

    Yea, you answered, in that you didn't answer at all.
    Because the question focused too much on the actual incident and not the surrounding details of corruption that get worse and worse every day - see the new statements from the State Trooper at the top of the post.


    Then you don't understand what you admitted to when you agreed that you had appealed to a logical fallacy.
    How? All I'm doing is describing other people's logical fallacy - I think you're getting confused again.

    Wrong? That people want or don't want to watch a show is irrelevant to me.
    Should he have resigned? Doesn't matter to me either, I'm not in attendance and I don't know them.

    But it seems to matter to you, and you should support whatever your position is.
    Already have done and reality is acting as if I'm right.

    ---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------

    UPDATE

    Well, who would have thunk:

    REVEALED: Josh Duggar sued Arkansas in 2007 because they investigated his sexual assaults
    Josh Duggar filed a lawsuit against Arkansas’ Department of Human Services in 2007, shortly after the agency began investigating him for multiple charges of sexual assault, In Touch Weekly reports.

    Though Springdale police declined to prosecute Josh Duggar for molesting several girls — including some of his sisters — in 2006, the department referred Duggar’s file to the state’s Families in Need of Services agency, a body that monitors criminal cases against juveniles. Families in Need, in turn, informed Arkansas’ Department of Human Services of the allegations against the former star in TLC’s hit reality show, “19 Kids and Counting.”

    During the course of the Department of Human Services’ investigative proceedings, Josh Duggar took issue with the municipal entity and filed suit. “A trial was held on August 6, 2007,” writes In Touch Weekly. However, “the results of the investigation into the Duggars and Josh’s trial are sealed.”

    Born on March 3, 1988, Josh Duggar would have been 19 years old at the time of his trial. ArkansasOnline points out that one of Duggar’s victims is still a minor. Even if the survivor is nearing 18 years of age, she would have been at most 9 years old during the summer her brother appeared in court to defend himself against years of sexual assault charges.

    It really does appear there is a concerted effort to avoid scrutiny and public prosecution in this case.

  25. #20
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,176
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Duggars and the dangers of mixing religion and politics

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Nope, but I do feel particularly strongly when children are involved.
    I like oreos.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    The Duggar parents likely could have prevented an attack if they had responded to the authorities sooner rather than waiting for the statute of limitations to run out or seeking a pedophile state trooper to assist in his freedom.
    I think they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    I was talking about the state trooper the Duggars went to! Incidentally I retract that they went to him because of the officer's sexual deviancy but it looks like the family knew the guy. However, more news on that front, Jim Bob Duggar LIED:
    Says the guy in jail.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    I think they're very connected - the Duggar brand is dead.
    Well, certainly people who make personal attacks on others are not going to support the show.
    Its just that not watching the show is not a support of personal attacks and the general witch hunt show being put on.
    I don't watch the show, and this whole ordeal makes me even less likely too. Yet I don't support all the theater being produced around this incident.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    No conspiracy is needed - they knew each other very well and were likely both seeking to protect the Duggar family whom both also probably knew well.
    You have no intintion of supporting that it was likely. so you can consider it dismissed as another JJ claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Because the question focused too much on the actual incident and not the surrounding details of corruption that get worse and worse every day - see the new statements from the State Trooper at the top of the post.
    That little piece of evidence actually hurts your conspiracy theory. .. but you know details.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    How? All I'm doing is describing other people's logical fallacy - I think you're getting confused again.
    Whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Already have done and reality is acting as if I'm right.
    That isn't how logic works JJ, you have to many leaps in your reasoning, and to many unsupported claims.

    This is like trying to respond to a hatchet job, pretty fruitless.

    So, you can have the last rant. I see no reason to try and catch all the rabbits you let out.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  26. Thanks Squatch347 thanked for this post
 

 
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Religion and politics
    By manc in forum Shootin' the Breeze / Off-Topic
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: November 4th, 2010, 08:41 PM
  2. Religious exclusivism and cultural mixing
    By The Great Khan in forum Religion
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: January 24th, 2010, 01:06 PM
  3. Dangers of Marijuana
    By chadn737 in forum Science and Technology
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: August 12th, 2007, 01:33 PM
  4. Dangers of Nanotech
    By unkcheetah in forum Science and Technology
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: June 13th, 2006, 03:35 PM
  5. Politics with or without religion?
    By mrs_innocent in forum Politics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: April 25th, 2004, 10:41 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •