Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 58

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    6,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Refugees in the U.S.

    Europe is begging the U.S. to help alleviate the refugee problem due to the crisis in Syria. I think the U.S. has a more imperative to step up. I support Obama's order to allow 10,000 refugees into the U.S. this year. In fact, I'd call for more. Do we need to verify identities and take precautions that we are not creating a terrorist yellow brick road? Of course. Here is where I am coming from. In the 1930's, America watched millions of Jews die at the hands of Nazis. The U.S. was divided. Rockefeller and the isolationists wanted to keep the Jewish immigrants out. FDR finally allowed some refugees to come here. There were rules. Jewish families generally had a to have a sponsor here in the U.S. that could vouch for them. How many Jews died because they had no place to go? It is absolutely unthinkable that we would stand by again and watch it happen all over again.

    Now, I known there are several counter-arguments to allowing refugees to enter here from Syria.

    1. The U.S. has its own problems. We cannot take in several hundred thousand poor and needing refugees from a foreign country.
    My Response: This is generally been Trump's response. I have heard it from others too. Yes, there will be costs associated with taking in refugees. These costs can be mitigated via sponsorship plans, reductions in immigration visas from other countries, and by enhancing border security to reduce illegal immigration flow.

    2. We could be letting in potential terrorists.
    My Response: Yup. We certainly could. However, with proper security protocols in place, this is a minute threat. Certainly, it is a threat which can be mitigated against. However, I have heard people talk about freedom and liberty so, I have to wonder, is this hallow speak? Those who wish to comprise liberty for security deserve neither. Our policies must not be based on fear. Many of these Syrian refugees are middle class folk who have skills and just want to be safe.

    3. We have too many immigrants here now and this would upset our culture and traditions.
    My Response: A few hundred thousand, or even a million, refugees would not make a dent in our culture/traditions. First of all, we can make learning English mandatory for all refugees, as well as, U.S. history classes. We can place conditions on entrance such that refugees will be welcomed into the American fabric and, hopefully, will soon consider themselves Americans like nearly all the other immigrant populations before them.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,251
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    I say, take the refugees into the U.S. Like we took in the Jewish children who were sent by their parents to families that would accept them.

    In other words, a sponsor family system. No limit to the number of people, but they must live with or be cared for by a specific U.S. family. I think we could easily accept 2million families in this way.
    Further, create a specific path to citizen ship, on that the foster or sponsor family could be involved in.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  3. #3
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    6,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I say, take the refugees into the U.S. Like we took in the Jewish children who were sent by their parents to families that would accept them.

    In other words, a sponsor family system. No limit to the number of people, but they must live with or be cared for by a specific U.S. family. I think we could easily accept 2million families in this way.
    Further, create a specific path to citizen ship, on that the foster or sponsor family could be involved in.
    I do not know the best way to do it, but a sponsor system, such as what we used during WWII, may be the best solution. Glad to see you are on board.

    P.S.
    The "progressives" here must be crapping themselves thinking the world just turned upside down? Don't us conservatives hate immigrants??? lol.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  4. #4
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    P.S.
    The "progressives" here must be crapping themselves thinking the world just turned upside down? Don't us conservatives hate immigrants??? lol.
    It's good to see you're taking responsibility, after all it was your nonsensical wars in the region that destabilized it and led to this mess.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  5. #5
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    6,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    It's good to see you're taking responsibility, after all it was your nonsensical wars in the region that destabilized it and led to this mess.
    MY nonsensical wars? Please support or withdraw this statement. To the best of my recollection, my support of the Iraqi war was tepid, at best. In fact, please find me the post where you have come to the conclusion that I was ever a fan of Bush II or the Iraq war.

    Blaming Bush and absolving Obama for the current situation is pretty absurd, by the way.

    Oh, and thanks for offering a positive contribution to the thread....
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Manteca, CA
    Posts
    1,443
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I do not know the best way to do it, but a sponsor system, such as what we used during WWII, may be the best solution. Glad to see you are on board.

    P.S.
    The "progressives" here must be crapping themselves thinking the world just turned upside down? Don't us conservatives hate immigrants??? lol.
    Well, I can say on the Christian end of the right wingers, that sometimes it appears progressives can have trouble even registering what a Christian is. Of course all of us, ideally, want to harbor refugees.

    Here's the rub though, guys: this is merely the more publicized conflict right now. There are wars going on all over the globe and smaller groups using terror tactics in even more places.

    Have you seen that little boy drowned on the beach? How much more of that is happening beyond our short attention span? Are you guys aware of the terror groups in the southern Phillipines or Peru? Unless you were watching when a portion of the media spotlighted it for just a little while months ago, you probably only know about it if you really try to follow things or you happen to have Filipino or Peruvian family members or friends.

    I think most folks here are aware enough of how influential the United States is, just how many major countries (countries that in a sense still have nascent empires) are depending on the US dollar. We've been fighting internally over whether or not we are the police force of the world, but wake up guys. The United States is the police force of the world.

    Whatever your opinion is, and I do sympathize and understand the idea that we shouldn't be the police, the fact is that we really are the police. When the U.N. started and approved the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, America became the primary arm behind trying to apply the declaration. We can all debate until we're blue in the face about whether or not we were really following the declaration, really getting involved in this or that in good conscience, but we did get involved. Probably a good more times than the majority of people are aware of, with many countries not recognized by the U.N. and gads and gads of entanglements that never made the news.

    So what remains? Whether or not this generation likes it we are responsible. We got involved way, way too many times to say that we aren't. So... there are enormous things at stake and many, many innocent people paying the cost. Why these refugees and not the innumerable others we share responsibility for? Do they get the "privilege" of living because they happen to be on the news?

    ---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    It's good to see you're taking responsibility, after all it was your nonsensical wars in the region that destabilized it and led to this mess.
    Could you quite hemming and hawing and maybe add some input about this situation that we are currently responsible for? For the sake of the UOD (universe of discourse) I would grant that we did everything wrong, it's all the conservatives fault and Bush II's fault, and we're as a collective group very smelly indeed. Now let's flash forward to the present. Are you going to score points off of this? Does it satisfy you just to play the blame game, or is your conscience at least also affected by this refugee crisis?

    Color me crazy, but I think that's what is important here, and that's what the thread is about. Seriously, you've derailed the whole second page so far because you couldn't even bother to answer the OP relevant portion of post #20 at the end of page 1. Do you just get to make the executive decision every time you enter a thread what the thread is going to be about?
    Last edited by Lukecash12; September 23rd, 2015 at 03:50 PM.
    There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
    Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukecash12 View Post
    Are you going to score points off of this? Does it satisfy you just to play the blame game, or is your conscience at least also affected by this refugee crisis?

    Color me crazy, but I think that's what is important here, and that's what the thread is about. Seriously, you've derailed the whole second page so far because you couldn't even bother to answer the OP relevant portion of post #20 at the end of page 1. Do you just get to make the executive decision every time you enter a thread what the thread is going to be about?
    I haven't seen any red typing so I'll be blunt in pointing out that how we got into this mess is incredibly important. You might call that and "executive decision", I call it exploring the issue.

    Let's go further and look at the charges that climate change is a factor here: http://time.com/4024210/climate-change-migrants/

    Am I willing to let conservatives on the winning side? yes, welcome. Will I poke them with a stick to get them to take responsibility? yes, I admitted my complicity in the affair I'll be damned if I let anyone slide by with the "but there were rape rooms" defense ever.

    _________________

    As an aside, I've always wondered what a rape room looks like. How does it differ from any other room?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Manteca, CA
    Posts
    1,443
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I haven't seen any red typing so I'll be blunt in pointing out that how we got into this mess is incredibly important. You might call that and "executive decision", I call it exploring the issue.

    Let's go further and look at the charges that climate change is a factor here: http://time.com/4024210/climate-change-migrants/

    Am I willing to let conservatives on the winning side? yes, welcome. Will I poke them with a stick to get them to take responsibility? yes, I admitted my complicity in the affair I'll be damned if I let anyone slide by with the "but there were rape rooms" defense ever.

    _________________

    As an aside, I've always wondered what a rape room looks like. How does it differ from any other room?
    Hmmm... let's see what the thread itself has to say about what happened here.

    First, the thematic statement in the OP:

    Europe is begging the U.S. to help alleviate the refugee problem due to the crisis in Syria. I think the U.S. has a more imperative to step up. I support Obama's order to allow 10,000 refugees into the U.S. this year. In fact, I'd call for more.
    Here's your response, which was mind numbingly irrelevant to the OP:

    It's good to see you're taking responsibility, after all it was your nonsensical wars in the region that destabilized it and led to this mess.
    And in response:

    MY nonsensical wars? Please support or withdraw this statement.
    Oh, and thanks for offering a positive contribution to the thread....
    What happens next on your end? Well, it basically turns into: "I'm not talking to you, I'm just talking to a group."

    "us conservatives" the decision to destabilize the area on faulty premises and jury rigged information was done by elected officials from your camp...own it.
    Let's compare the first quote to the last quote here... So, not only does he have to own something which wasn't his opinion in the first place, but you get to decide what the subject of the thread is. There are repeated requests after that for you to get back on topic, and you literally begin paring out those portions and only responding to the portions discussing your subject, not the thread's subject.

    Or better yet, let's just look at the title: refugees in the U.S. The question is... do we want refugees in the U.S.?

    A little brainstorming for the fellas at ODN, you can take or leave my two cents: maybe the next time this happens, we can all just ignore the bait and post purely OP relevant material? It is our prerogative after all, so there's no reason such material warrants a response. And most importantly, if there is a contributor that doesn't want to discuss the OP, he/she won't even have any other material to quote.
    There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
    Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib

  9. #9
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukecash12 View Post

    Let's compare the first quote to the last quote here... So, not only does he have to own something which wasn't his opinion in the first place, but you get to decide what the subject of the thread is. There are repeated requests after that for you to get back on topic, and you literally begin paring out those portions and only responding to the portions discussing your subject, not the thread's subject.

    Or better yet, let's just look at the title: refugees in the U.S. The question is... do we want refugees in the U.S.?

    Without any context the question is meaningless. Since he uses the word "imperative" which imperative would that be?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  10. #10
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    6,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Without any context the question is meaningless. Since he uses the word "imperative" which imperative would that be?
    Moral imperative. I think it came out more imperative.... sighhhh. I would have edited it but thought it was kinda obvious in its context. Lesson learned.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  11. #11
    Registered User

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Manteca, CA
    Posts
    1,443
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Moral imperative. I think it came out more imperative.... sighhhh. I would have edited it but thought it was kinda obvious in its context. Lesson learned.
    It was obvious. And so was the context. But the non-responses, and silence, has been deafening lately.
    There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
    Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib

  12. #12
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    "us conservatives" the decision to destabilize the area on faulty premises and jury rigged information was done by elected officials from your camp...own it.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  13. #13
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    6,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    "us conservatives" the decision to destabilize the area on faulty premises and jury rigged information was done by elected officials from your camp...own it.
    Again, please support that I actually supported the Iraq war. I am not going to own something which isn't mine. Not to belabor the point, "Blaming Bush and absolving Obama for the current situation is pretty absurd, by the way."
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  14. #14
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Again, please support that I actually supported the Iraq war. I am not going to own something which isn't mine. Not to belabor the point, "Blaming Bush and absolving Obama for the current situation is pretty absurd, by the way."
    You are of no consequence, the conservative camp is who I criticized of which you're a part..."us conservatives". Take it as personally as you like, heck, I supported the invasion of Iraq but I realize now what a colossal blunder it was and, of course, who is responsible for that blunder.

    We were lured in to acting irrationally (and, I'd argue, taken advantage of by our leaders) which took its toll in blood and treasure. Enough so that we are unwilling to engage anywhere else in the region. OBL's plan was devious, well thought out, and worked perfectly. A brilliant strategy that boxed us in and has allowed the current situation to happen.

    That those in the middle east were playing chess while our conservative leadership were playing checkers is plainly obvious.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  15. #15
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    6,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    You are of no consequence, the conservative camp is who I criticized of which you're a part..."us conservatives". Take it as personally as you like, heck, I supported the invasion of Iraq but I realize now what a colossal blunder it was and, of course, who is responsible for that blunder.

    We were lured in to acting irrationally (and, I'd argue, taken advantage of by our leaders) which took its toll in blood and treasure. Enough so that we are unwilling to engage anywhere else in the region. OBL's plan was devious, well thought out, and worked perfectly. A brilliant strategy that boxed us in and has allowed the current situation to happen.

    That those in the middle east were playing chess while our conservative leadership were playing checkers is plainly obvious.
    If I am part the Conservative camp and didn't support the Iraq war, then it is clear that there is no single conservative viewpoint here. In other words, one needn't be a supporter of the Iraq war to be a conservative. Since we can point to many liberals who supported the war, it means supporting the war did not mean you are conservative. Your argument fails the logic test.

    Finally, you keep making the tired argument that the situation in the ME was tied to conservative leadership, ignoring my rebuttal. The situation in the ME predated Bush. OBL's plans were laid out while Clinton was in office. American political leaders from both sides of the aisle have not been able to adequately figure out the ME puzzle. Obama has done nothing to change this truism.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  16. #16
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    If I am part the Conservative camp and didn't support the Iraq war, then it is clear that there is no single conservative viewpoint here. In other words, one needn't be a supporter of the Iraq war to be a conservative. Since we can point to many liberals who supported the war, it means supporting the war did not mean you are conservative. Your argument fails the logic test.
    I laid out no such argument.

    ---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Finally, you keep making the tired argument that the situation in the ME was tied to conservative leadership, ignoring my rebuttal. The situation in the ME predated Bush. OBL's plans were laid out while Clinton was in office. American political leaders from both sides of the aisle have not been able to adequately figure out the ME puzzle. Obama has done nothing to change this truism.
    From the OP: "the refugee problem due to the crisis in Syria." The ME was stable when GW took office. Maybe not in good shape, but stable, as compared to say the Balkans at the time.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  17. #17
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,019
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    The ME was stable when GW took office. Maybe not in good shape, but stable, as compared to say the Balkans at the time.
    Do you value the prior stability of Saddam Hussein ruling Iraq over democratic self-government? And the same in Syria?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  18. #18
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Do you value the prior stability of Saddam Hussein ruling Iraq over democratic self-government? And the same in Syria?
    Oh, much so.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  19. #19
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,019
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Oh, much so.
    So Saddam's and gassing of Kurds, murders and disappearances of citizens by his police forces and general lack of freedom don't bother you. Same with the decades-long repression and atrocities by the Assads in Syria. Interesting. Liberals used to lambaste conservatives who desired stability in the Middle East, claiming that preservation of the status quo was to keep oil flowing and condemned the people of the Middle East to life under despots.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  20. #20
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    6,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Refugees in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    From the OP: "the refugee problem due to the crisis in Syria." The ME was stable when GW took office. Maybe not in good shape, but stable, as compared to say the Balkans at the time.
    Huh??? Stable? Again, OBL was planning 9/11 while Clinton was in office. How stable was it? Did you forget the Arab Spring? Assad gassing is people? Again, attributing instability or crisis in that region to a single President (ANY single President) is ridiculous. And so as to attempt to return this thread to its proper course, do you support the U.S. taking in refugees from Syria? Are you satisfied with the 10,000 number suggested by Obama?
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

 

 
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The repatriation of North Korean refugees
    By BlueT in forum International Affairs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 6th, 2008, 05:41 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •