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  1. #1
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    "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    or "Did you build that?"

    Since Trump is running on his supposed self-madeiness and what a brilliant manager and deal maker he is, I find it funny that none of these questions have come up. Those not from the mid-Atlantic area might not be familiar with Atlantic City and the scum hole it is but I am and I find it peculiar that people automatically equate money with success and/or ingenuity or that it must have come from hard work.

    Is that always true? and is Trump to be given a pass and not explain what he is so fervently running on this campaign season?


    Rest of the article here: http://www.nationalmemo.com/21-quest...-donald-trump/

    "1. You call yourself an “ardent philanthropist,” but have not donated a dollar to The Donald J. Trump Foundation since 2006. You’re not even the biggest donor to the foundation, having given about $3.7 million in the previous two decades while businesses associated with Vince McMahon’s World Wrestling Entertainment gave the Trump Foundation $5 million. All the money since 2006 has come from those doing business with you.

    How does giving away other people’s money, in what could be seen as a kickback scheme, make you a philanthropist?


    2. New York Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman successfully sued you, alleging your Trump University was an “illegal educational institution” that charged up to $35,000 for “Trump Elite” mentorships promising personal advice from you, but you never showed up and your “special” list of lenders was photocopied from Scotsman Guide, a magazine found at any bookstore.

    Why did you not show up?


    3. You claimed The Learning Annex paid you a $1 million speaking fee, but on Larry King Live, you acknowledged the fee was $400,000 and the rest was the promotional value.
    Since you have testified under oath that your public statements inflate the value of your assets, can voters use this as a guide, so whenever you say $1, in reality it is only 40 cents?


    4. The one-page financial statement handed out at Trump Tower when you announced your candidacy says you’ve given away $102 million worth of land.
    Will you supply a list of each of these gifts, with the values you assigned to them?


    5. The biggest gift you have talked about appears to be an easement at the Palos Verdes, California, golf course bearing your name on land you wanted to build houses on, but that land is subject to landslides and is now the golf course driving range.
    Did you or one of your businesses take a tax deduction for this land that you could not build on and do you think anyone should get a $25 million tax deduction for a similar self-serving gift?


    6. Trump Tower is not a steel girder high rise, but 58 stories of concrete.
    Why did you use concrete instead of traditional steel girders?



    7. Trump Tower was built by S&A Concrete, whose owners were “Fat” Tony Salerno, head of the Genovese crime family, and Paul “Big Paul” Castellano, head of the Gambinos, another well-known crime family.

    If you did not know of their ownership, what does that tell voters about your management skills?



    8. You later used S&A Concrete on other Manhattan buildings bearing your name.

    Why?



    9. In demolishing the Bonwit Teller building to make way for Trump Tower, you had no labor troubles, even though only about 15 unionists worked at the site alongside 150 Polish men, most of whom entered the country illegally, lacked hard hats, and slept on the site.

    How did you manage to avoid labor troubles, like picketing and strikes, and job safety inspections while using mostly non-union labor at a union worksite — without hard hats for the Polish workers?



    10. A federal judge later found you conspired to cheat both the Polish workers, who were paid less than $5 an hour cash with no benefits, and the union health and welfare fund. You testified that you did not notice the Polish workers, whom the judge noted were easy to spot because they were the only ones on the work site without hard hats.

    What should voters make of your failure or inability to notice 150 men demolishing a multi-story building without hard hats?



    11. You sent your top lieutenant, lawyer Harvey I. Freeman, to negotiate with Ken Shapiro, the “investment banker” for Nicky Scarfo, the especially vicious killer who was Atlantic City’s mob boss, according to federal prosecutors and the New Jersey State Commission on Investigation.

    Since you emphasize your negotiating skills, why didn’t you negotiate yourself?



    12. You later paid a Scarfo associate twice the value of a lot, officials determined.

    Since you boast that you always negotiate the best prices, why did you pay double the value of this real estate?



    13. You were the first person recommended for a casino license by the New Jersey Attorney General’s Division of Gaming Enforcement, which opposed all other applicants or was neutral. Later it came out in official proceedings that you had persuaded the state to limit its investigation of your background.

    Why did you ask that the investigation into your background be limited?



    14. You were the target of a 1979 bribery investigation. No charges were filed, but New Jersey law mandates denial of a license to anyone omitting any salient fact from their casino application.

    Why did you omit the 1979 bribery investigation?



    15. The prevailing legal case on license denials involved a woman, seeking a blackjack dealer license, who failed to disclose that as a retail store clerk she had given unauthorized discounts to friends.

    In light of the standard set for low-level license holders like blackjack dealers, how did you manage to keep your casino license?


    16. In 1986 you wrote a letter seeking lenient sentencing for Joseph Weichselbaum, a convicted marijuana and cocaine trafficker who lived in Trump Tower and in a case that came before your older sister, Judge Maryanne Trump Barry of U.S. District Court in Newark, New Jersey, who recused herself because Weichselbaum was the Trump casinos and Trump family helicopter consultant and pilot.

    Why did you do business with Weichselbaum, both before and after his conviction?


    17. Your first major deal was converting the decrepit Commodore Hotel next to Grand Central Station into a Grand Hyatt. Mayor Abe Beame, a close ally of your father Fred, gave you the first-ever property tax abatement on a New York City hotel, worth at least $400 million over 40 years.

    Since you boast that you are a self-made billionaire, how do you rationalize soliciting and accepting $400 million of welfare from the taxpayers?



    18. You say that your experience as a manager will allow you to run the federal government much better than President Obama or Hillary Clinton. On Fortune Magazine’s 1999 list of the 496 most admired companies, your casino company ranked at the bottom – worst or almost worst in management, use of assets, employee talent, long-term investment value, and social responsibility. Your casino company later went bankrupt.

    Why should voters believe your claims that you are a competent manager?



    19. Your Trump Plaza casino was fined $200,000 for discriminating against women and minority blackjack dealers to curry favor with gambler Robert Libutti, who lost $12 million, and who insisted he never asked that blacks and women be replaced.

    Why should we believe you “love” what you call “the blacks” and the enterprise you seek to lead would not discriminate again in the future if doing so appeared to be lucrative?


    20. Public records (cited in my book Temples of Chance) show that as your career took off, you legally reported a negative income and paid no income taxes as summarized below:

    1975
    Income: $76,210
    Tax Paid: $18,714

    1976
    Income: $24,594
    Tax Paid: $10,832

    1977
    Income: $118,530
    Tax Paid: $42,386

    1978
    Income: ($406,379)
    Tax Paid: $0

    1979
    Income: ($3,443,560)
    Tax Paid: $0

    Will you release your tax returns? And if not, why not?


    21. In your first bestselling book, The Art of the Deal, you told how you had not gotten much work done on your first casino, so you had crews dig and fill holes to create a show. You said one director of your partner, Holiday Inns, asked what was going on. “This was difficult for me to answer, but fortunately this board member was more curious than he was skeptical,” you wrote.

    Given your admission that you used deception to hide your failure to accomplish the work, why should we believe you now?
    "
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #2
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    Since Trump is running on his supposed self-madeiness and what a brilliant manager and deal maker he is, I find it funny that none of these questions have come up.
    For the most part, it's because they are not interesting questions, or not valid questions, IE not questions a good journalist would ask because they are biased in their framing and assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    I find it peculiar that people automatically equate money with success and/or ingenuity or that it must have come from hard work.
    Why? for the most part in america they go hand in hand. Sure there are instances of family money, and dump luck (right place right time type stuff).
    But if you meet someone on the street that has money, chances are he worked hard for it, or created value for many people which lead to his wealth.

    The only area that it is more common that money did not come from hard work and ingenuity is in the government, and in the case of crony capitalism.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

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  4. #3
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    For the most part, it's because they are not interesting questions, or not valid questions, IE not questions a good journalist would ask because they are biased in their framing and assumptions.
    "Will you release your tax returns?" seems pretty basic to me. How long did we dither over a birth certificate?

    ---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Why? for the most part in america they go hand in hand. Sure there are instances of family money, and dump luck (right place right time type stuff).
    But if you meet someone on the street that has money, chances are he worked hard for it, or created value for many people which lead to his wealth.

    The only area that it is more common that money did not come from hard work and ingenuity is in the government, and in the case of crony capitalism.
    I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen, just the assumption that it must be the case.

    Are you saying it would be easier for Trump to have honest business dealing rather than those with organized crime?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  5. #4
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    I guess some of these questions are important. In fact, in last night's debate, Fiorina took on his management and brought up Atlantic City. Whether you buy his answer is a personal choice. However, reading a bit about both Trump's and Fiorina's careers, the real answers are pretty complicated. Most of the author's questions were just cynical, partisan hacks. Throwing darts against the wall to see what sticks. He cited nothing. So, it is not entirely clear how much of his questions were based on innuendo and jumping to conclusions. I mean, I am pretty sure you defended Hillary's email actions in the State Dept. as being ethical because she didn't break any laws. Well, there is no evidence that Trump has broken any laws, so I guess, if nothing else, then he's no less ethical than Hillary. Certainly, if he does have ties to organized crime, as the author would like the readers to believe, then I am sure it will come out. Really, though, the author's questions display a sort of misunderstanding of Trump's appeal. No one is really supporting Trump because he is a saint or some sort of wonderful man. People are supporting him because he's an asshole and because he's yelling at the professional politicians, basically calling them whoring thieves, expressing the frustrations of lots of Americans. So, it is kind of a bit ironic that you find the author's questions biting or think they actually matter. No one cares. As long as Trump keeps flinging mud at the liars standing next to him, people are satisfied. Isn't that what he pretty much told Jeb last night? He made it clear that the $200M Jeb has brought into his campaign is nothing short of bribe money. That's what people want exposed. When Trump told everyone how he paid Hillary money and she came to his wedding, it kind of said it all. The politicians on both sides of the aisle are just a bunch of whores with their hands held out. Almost no one gives a crap about Trump. They just want the dark, seedy underbelly of American politics exposed. What is kind of sad/amusing is the self-importance the author places on himself by exposing Trump.... good golly! Perhaps, if he was a real writer he wouldn't be stuck sending articles to some website with a viewership about the size of a small diner in Nebraska.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

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  7. #5
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    "Will you release your tax returns?" seems pretty basic to me. How long did we dither over a birth certificate?
    No, that one is pretty fair.. and I thought standard practice.
    This one is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    12. You later paid a Scarfo associate twice the value of a lot, officials determined.

    Since you boast that you always negotiate the best prices, why did you pay double the value of this real estate?
    First, why is this interesting? A man that has done so much real-estate.. I'm supposed to be interested in a single specific deal?
    I mean, all he has to do is say "I wanted it.. and the donald gets what he wants"..
    And you have a valid answer that is totally uninteresting. The question does not beg to be asked and reveals more of an attempt to get caught up in minutia, then deal with real issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen, just the assumption that it must be the case.
    The assumption is a pretty safe one, as I have pointed out. So you shouldn't be surprised, and it isn't unreasonable for those who make it.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Are you saying it would be easier for Trump to have honest business dealing rather than those with organized crime?
    No, are you saying we should all wear chicken suits and eat bacon wrapped fried Twinkies?
    (see, your not the only one that can ask unrelated, nonsequentular extrapolations of other peoples answers).
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  8. #6
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Due Disclaimer, I am absolutely not a Donald Trump fan. I'm in the Goldberg camp of probably voting third party if he wins the nomination. He is crude, he lacks wisdom, he seems to have no real ideological reason for his positions, and for that matter most of his positions are progressive ones (gun control, abortion, taxes, regulation, etc). So please don't misunderstand the following for a biased support for "our guy."


    This article contributes virtually nothing of value. MT was spot on that the reason these questions haven't been asked is because, by and large, they aren't serious questions. Who cares if he used concrete rather than steel? Does it violate code? Obviously not since it was approved by inspectors. I'm not even sure what the political implication of that question is. His charitable donations is clearly a path progressive media wouldn't want to go down given their candidates' general lack of giving or shady association with giving. Ditto with tax returns, what is the value of that? He is good at skirting taxes? Hell, worst case he violated tax law right? Do you think that will make him more popular or less popular with a party that wants to lower tax rates? Do you think that plays well or poorly into a platform that says the tax code is too complex so that guys like him can avoid paying?

    These are, oddly, the least compelling questions about Trump.

    Rather, what should be asked are:


    1) You admit that you've skirted the line on bribing officials, what did you gain by those actions and what does that mean for your credibility?

    2) Your businesses have shown a remarkably poor performance (you could use almost any metric, net income, P/E ratio, etc here) while you were actively filling the executive role. Why should we accept your bona fides on economic or business issues?

    3) What is your position on gun control? What is your position on marginal tax rates? What is your tax plan?

    4) How would specifically encourage or force China to end currency manipulation (a policy you've said you would adopt)?

    5) Can you lay out the details of literally any position you've taken at any point in this race?

    5a) How would you get Mexico to "pay for the wall?"
    5b) How would you create jobs, specifically?
    5c) How would you deport illegal immigrants currently in the country? Where would you fund that program, how would you establish it, etc?

    6) How do you see the role of President in relation to Congress and the Supreme Court? Given that your positions have seemed very action oriented, how do you include Congress in those actions?

    6a) (Probably) How does that vision differ from that of President Obama?
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


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  10. #7
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    The specifics of those questions don't interest me much and I already have the opinion that trump is full of **** and not really to be trusted so the answers don't make much difference unless they somehow show him to be a man of sterling character.

    I like Squatch's questions better, its more to the point and who knows, he might even answer them.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

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  12. #8
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I mean, I am pretty sure you defended Hillary's email actions in the State Dept. as being ethical because she didn't break any laws. Well, there is no evidence that Trump has broken any laws, so I guess, if nothing else, then he's no less ethical than Hillary.
    True, but he's not my party's candidate, he's your party's candidate. With you oh-so high ethical standards you'd think it would bother you.

    ---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    The assumption is a pretty safe one, as I have pointed out. So you shouldn't be surprised, and it isn't unreasonable for those who make it.
    Not in this case...not sure where you pointed it out or why it matters. I assume everyday there will be gravity, I'd be pretty ****ed if tomorrow I woke up and there was none.

    ---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    No, are you saying we should all wear chicken suits and eat bacon wrapped fried Twinkies?
    (see, your not the only one that can ask unrelated, nonsequentular extrapolations of other peoples answers).
    I'll explain. Trump had financial dealings with known leaders of organized crime. Even if he wasn't involved he benefited from their "muscle", see question 9, are you saying that a similar business man - who doesn't have same said connections - doesn't have to work harder than Trump did?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  13. #9
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Not in this case...not sure where you pointed it out or why it matters. I assume everyday there will be gravity, I'd be pretty ****ed if tomorrow I woke up and there was none.
    Some assumptions can be wrong, and it is true that in the case of wealth it is possible that you are seeing a trust fund baby.
    That doesn't make the assumption are not safe assumptions.
    This means that in america, one has to show that wealth didn't come from hard work and ingenuity. In the case of trump, it seems pretty obvious that his wealth came from his deal making ability.
    Which is in the class of ingenuity and hard work.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    I'll explain. Trump had financial dealings with known leaders of organized crime. Even if he wasn't involved he benefited from their "muscle", see question 9, are you saying that a similar business man - who doesn't have same said connections - doesn't have to work harder than Trump did?
    A few notes.
    First, there is very little difference between the gov and organized crime df
    - The last 3 of my states insurance commissioners are in prison because of the corruption. .. and no doubt the current one is on the road to a jail house retirement. Why? because insurance is a racket as big as any organized crime. (as a random example)
    Second, lets assume he worked with organized crime.
    - Was there any crime committed? See I rent to people.. and if one was a drug dealer, I could be tied to it.. but that doesn't mean I contributed to crime or did anything illegal.
    Third, if organized crime and labor have it's grips on a city.. how do you get things done without working with them?
    - So while it should raise some legitimate questions... what is the accusation?


    -----
    Final note, I am not a big supporter of trump, but I admit that in the last election I did say that We should have trump over the guys we had to pick from.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    A few notes.
    First, there is very little difference between the gov and organized crime df
    - The last 3 of my states insurance commissioners are in prison because of the corruption. .. and no doubt the current one is on the road to a jail house retirement. Why? because insurance is a racket as big as any organized crime. (as a random example)
    Second, lets assume he worked with organized crime.
    - Was there any crime committed? See I rent to people.. and if one was a drug dealer, I could be tied to it.. but that doesn't mean I contributed to crime or did anything illegal.
    Third, if organized crime and labor have it's grips on a city.. how do you get things done without working with them?
    - So while it should raise some legitimate questions... what is the accusation?
    I see lots of excuses, especially #3, from the side where "character counts" and the side who made such a big deal about the ethical deficiencies of Hillary.

    Is it because in this case it is in the world of business and Trump has been portrayed as being successful?

    True, you wouldn't be doing anything illegal but you would be benefiting from it.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    True, but he's not my party's candidate, he's your party's candidate. With you oh-so high ethical standards you'd think it would bother you.
    First, just because someone chooses to be a Republican, does not mean I am emotionally invested in them. In fact, chances are that I am not. I view most politicians as whores anyhow. Probably won't be voting for Trump. So, no, his ethical standards do not bother me. Does Hillary's low ethical standards bother you?
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy
    I see lots of excuses, especially #3, from the side where "character counts" and the side who made such a big deal about the ethical deficiencies of Hillary.
    So what character issue are you raising?
    What kind of excuses do you think you see? Because I haven't excused anything, rather I have asked for context and brought up questions that would bring that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Is it because in this case it is in the world of business and Trump has been portrayed as being successful?
    not sure what you mean here.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    True, you wouldn't be doing anything illegal but you would be benefiting from it.
    Well, do you object to my actions on a moral level?
    If so, exactly how involved in the lives of people I rent to do you want me to be? how much of my morality do you want me to force on them?
    Rent to only married couples?
    Rent to only strait people?
    Rent to only church go'ers?
    Rent to only conservatives?
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    First, just because someone chooses to be a Republican, does not mean I am emotionally invested in them. In fact, chances are that I am not. I view most politicians as whores anyhow. Probably won't be voting for Trump. So, no, his ethical standards do not bother me. Does Hillary's low ethical standards bother you?
    By my standards they aren't low, so no. You're the one who was so shocked at her behavior. Funny that you're not when one is involved with organized crime *sheesh* "crime" is right in the description.

    ---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    So what character issue are you raising?
    What kind of excuses do you think you see? Because I haven't excused anything, rather I have asked for context and brought up questions that would bring that out.


    not sure what you mean here.


    Well, do you object to my actions on a moral level?
    If so, exactly how involved in the lives of people I rent to do you want me to be? how much of my morality do you want me to force on them?
    Rent to only married couples?
    Rent to only strait people?
    Rent to only church go'ers?
    Rent to only conservatives?
    Since were talking about organized crime here, let's stick with that...criminals and benefiting from their criminal enterprise. So profiting from the misery of others while turning a blind eye toward illegal activity would be the moral - if not legal - problem.

    I'll assume that all of the crime families trump had dealings with inflict/have inflicted a greater degree of damage on society than the drug dealer you are renting to (what's he dealing anyway? pot to his friends?)
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Since were talking about organized crime here, let's stick with that...criminals and benefiting from their criminal enterprise. So profiting from the misery of others while turning a blind eye toward illegal activity would be the moral - if not legal - problem.
    Well, tying back into the assumptions thing. I think it is a pretty safe assumption to think so.
    On the other hand, there are instances where I would not find it to be a moral wrong. Say for example you want to build a hospital for the poor specifically in a state where organized crime owns the unions, and the laws force you to interact with the unions.

    I see no moral dilemma with working directly with the Godfather directly to get it done, especially when there is no crime in the interaction. I mean, I'm not morally responsible for what you do with the money I give you.

    That being said.. it's an issue for someone running for president. And just like lucy.. he may have some splaining to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    I'll assume that all of the crime families trump had dealings with inflict/have inflicted a greater degree of damage on society than the drug dealer you are renting to (what's he dealing anyway? pot to his friends?)
    Sure.. not sure where this is going.

    As for me personally, I don't know that I do or don't rent to drug dealers.. I'm fairly certain some of my tenants or on drugs (I have a few lower end properties.. so kind of comes with the territory). My point, is that my business puts me in at least potentially into direct contact with those kinds of people. An example would be my uncle (also a landlord) who had the police transfer one of his tenants (in a nice neighborhood) directly to jail, with a freezer full of drugs (not disclosed to us, or I don't remember). It was a total mess, cops took all the good stuff *electronics/DVD's/games* and left all the crap *tons of rap cd's*
    but I digress. If that had been my house, and I ran for office, would I suffer(or should I) the same kind of association trump is going to get with mob bosses, in a town where it appears to me that he MUST deal with them in order to do any business.



    Finally, I think Trump is a kind of A-moral person, where it is more about getting things done, and legality.
    For example, he seems proud of using the tax code and bankruptcy laws in order to make money. I generally think the latter is immoral, promising to pay and then using the bankruptcy code to not pay a debt. That is legalized stealing as far as I am concerned.
    That said, I'm not sure that is a bad thing for a president who is forced to deal with bad people I mean, I shy away from it, but sometimes you have to be friends with the communist in order to get rid of a genocidal maniac. (WWII rings a bell)
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    By my standards they aren't low, so no. You're the one who was so shocked at her behavior. Funny that you're not when one is involved with organized crime *sheesh* "crime" is right in the description.
    Well, if you want to dance around and ignore the points I've made, its on you. Your response indicates that you aren't interested in the truth, just in defending your candidate. Good luck with that.
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Well, if you want to dance around and ignore the points I've made, its on you. Your response indicates that you aren't interested in the truth, just in defending your candidate. Good luck with that.
    "Hello, Pot? Kettle calling." I'm not the one who spoke of perfect moral and ethical clarity...for you not so much in this case.

    ---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Well, tying back into the assumptions thing. I think it is a pretty safe assumption to think so.
    On the other hand, there are instances where I would not find it to be a moral wrong. Say for example you want to build a hospital for the poor specifically in a state where organized crime owns the unions, and the laws force you to interact with the unions.

    I see no moral dilemma with working directly with the Godfather directly to get it done, especially when there is no crime in the interaction. I mean, I'm not morally responsible for what you do with the money I give you.

    That being said.. it's an issue for someone running for president. And just like lucy.. he may have some splaining to do.


    Sure.. not sure where this is going.

    As for me personally, I don't know that I do or don't rent to drug dealers.. I'm fairly certain some of my tenants or on drugs (I have a few lower end properties.. so kind of comes with the territory). My point, is that my business puts me in at least potentially into direct contact with those kinds of people. An example would be my uncle (also a landlord) who had the police transfer one of his tenants (in a nice neighborhood) directly to jail, with a freezer full of drugs (not disclosed to us, or I don't remember). It was a total mess, cops took all the good stuff *electronics/DVD's/games* and left all the crap *tons of rap cd's*
    but I digress. If that had been my house, and I ran for office, would I suffer(or should I) the same kind of association trump is going to get with mob bosses, in a town where it appears to me that he MUST deal with them in order to do any business.
    What's this "MUST deal with"? What happened to the ingenuity? Sounds like an excuse to me...start your own concrete business.
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Funny that you're not when one is involved with organized crime *sheesh* "crime" is right in the description. [/url]
    This comment sounds like you don't approve of a presidential candidate who may be or has been involved in organized crime. Is that right? Why are you assuming Hilary and/or Bill Clinton have not been involved in organized crime?
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    What's this "MUST deal with"? What happened to the ingenuity? Sounds like an excuse to me...start your own concrete business.
    HAHA.. Well, the "must deal with" was explained, your just quoting a reference to a larger point, while ignoring the larger point.
    Of course trump could have ousted organized crime and put it out of business, we would all have preferred that action

    So lets both agree not to vote for anyone who hasn't put organized crime out of business. K.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    This comment sounds like you don't approve of a presidential candidate who may be or has been involved in organized crime. Is that right? Why are you assuming Hilary and/or Bill Clinton have not been involved in organized crime?
    Probably. Why the deflection? We're talking about someone who is running on his brilliant business and deal making acumen.

    ---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    HAHA.. Well, the "must deal with" was explained, your just quoting a reference to a larger point, while ignoring the larger point.
    Of course trump could have ousted organized crime and put it out of business, we would all have preferred that action

    So lets both agree not to vote for anyone who hasn't put organized crime out of business. K.
    How about just not enabling them...let's start there. Build your building out of steel.

    I think you're missing the point. Dealing with organized crime is the easy way, the cheat. Is it easier to truly handicap a football game or to get the quarterback hooked on coke and then bet on the opposition? As I've stated, dealing with criminals isn't without its dangerous, they're violent and do great harm to many people. So yes, the Don may be brave (might be stupid) but that does not equate a great business grasp, hard work, ingenuity, etc. It's a mask.
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    Re: "21 Questions For Donald Trump"

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    How about just not enabling them...let's start there. Build your building out of steel.
    What? how does building with concrete enable organized crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    I think you're missing the point. Dealing with organized crime is the easy way, the cheat.
    Yea, I am missing your point, but I'm trying really hard to catch it.

    So, doing things the easy way is cheating? Like, suppose a person was blackmailing me for money so that they would not go public with false accusations that would hurt me even once they were proved false.
    Taking the "easy" way of paying the money is "cheating" to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    As I've stated, dealing with criminals isn't without its dangerous, they're violent and do great harm to many people. So yes, the Don may be brave (might be stupid) but that does not equate a great business grasp, hard work, ingenuity, etc. It's a mask.
    Actually, the measure of a good business is getting things done(legally), and making a profit.
    It appears The Donald had done that by every measure, and to a great enough degree of success that other business men actively seek to learn from him. "The Art of the Deal" is evidence of that.

    So, while I can understand why you want to diminish his business prowess, it is pretty ridiculous on it's face. He is and has been very successful specifically because of his personal hard work and ingenuity it dealing with the business world that surrounds him.

    I really don't see how it is the job of any businessman to eradicate organized crime, which is what you seem to expect.
    Or, why a businessman must always choose the more expensive morally upstanding business partner, rather than a cheaper morally reprehensible partner.. even when no crime occurs in the exchange.
    Like buying cheap and effective cement from a crime boss (totally legit exchange) vs (apparently) buying expensive steel from the local Baptist preacher.




    ---final note--
    Honestly, I'm surprised at your level of judgment. You would have people refuse to do business with other simply because they don't share the same morality as you.
    I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that any tolerant and open minded, liberal would forward such a racist, bigoted, crimophobic position.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

 

 
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