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  1. #21
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I am not sure you understand the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine never said comment had to be fair. Just balanced. It never put a measure on quality. What happened was that opinion or news/entertainment shows were not feasible for the networks. The Doctrine tended to be applied in a partisan manner based on whomever was running government. If you were doing news, you still had to be balanced per the Doctrine. I mean, in today's world how would one cover a Black Lives Matters event? It is not cut and dry, black and white. You are turning this into a conservative v. liberal thread which just tells me (and everyone else reading) how simple minded you can be.
    It's right in the name "Fairness". And it is simple. There's a difference between opinion and news and the fairness doctrine said they must be delineated. I suggest you watch one night of the News Hour on PBS. You'll see they still do it the "old" way where they report the news and they have the commentary at the end with a moderator and various commentators.

    That this format isn't what advertisers interested in supporting only a particular view...primarily a conservative view...has already been discussed.

    ---------- Post added at 12:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    You actually conceded this when you noted that in 1986 cable opened up available bandwidth.
    I don't think I did.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #22
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    It's right in the name "Fairness". And it is simple. There's a difference between opinion and news and the fairness doctrine said they must be delineated. I suggest you watch one night of the News Hour on PBS. You'll see they still do it the "old" way where they report the news and they have the commentary at the end with a moderator and various commentators.

    That this format isn't what advertisers interested in supporting only a particular view...primarily a conservative view...has already been discussed.[COLOR=Silver]
    You have not rebutted a single point I've made about it other than to claim, uh-uh and point to the bill's name. Unless you directly rebut the explanation I gave for why it was created and why it was obsolete and why it didn't work, I'll just accept that you have conceded these points.

    Oh, and thanks for more of your partisan rubbish. That's your opinion and I see no reason to address it further.


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I don't think I did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy
    I'm not sure how it limited bandwith in 1986.
    So, yeah, you did concede bandwidth was not really an issue in 1986.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  3. #23
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    So, yeah, you did concede bandwidth was not really an issue in 1986.
    You're saying there was no cable before 1986?

    ---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    You have not rebutted a single point I've made about it
    I don't see any points.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #24
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    You're saying there was no cable before 1986?

    ---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------



    I don't see any points.
    And in typical Cowboy fashion, attempts at actual debate (or even civil discussion) result in a fizzle as your willingness to read what others write and actually try to comprehend what they are expressing is snuffed out by your overwhelming desire to make some sort of partisan point.

    ---------- Post added at 09:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Well, its kind of abotu intent. If you intend to give your audience accurate verifiable information about the world they live in, then it's journalism. If you don't care if what you say is true and don't work to verify its truth, you are not doing journalism.

    I've watched Fox on rare occasions. Sometimes they do journalims there, or at least news reporting. Other times, lots of other times, they are just full of **** and are only "reporting" something they saw somwehre else without doing the lightest bit of verification on their own. They get caught in this pretty often. http://www.mintpressnews.com/pants-o...y-lies/205563/ This article shows just how bad they are.
    THough apparently they are the most trusted by the american public https://www.qu.edu/news-and-events/q...ReleaseID=2173 Which goes to show you how stupid / uninformed much of the American public happens to be.

    According to this survey http://www.poynter.org/2012/survey-n...formed/174826/ , if you want to be well informed, listen to NPR, that or people who are already well informed tend to listen to NPR. Also funny, watching Fox news is worse than watching no news at all!
    Actually journalism includes both opinion and non-opinion. Editorialis are a part of journalism. It is different from the branch of journalism we call reporting or news. All the cable networks (FoxNews, CNN, and MSNBC) have news divisions and opinion/editorial divisions and they generally try to keep them separate. When a news person appears on a opinion show, it is generally to provide a factual perspective and seldom do news people give actual opinions. You almost never see opinion people on the news shows. I think FoxNews and CNN probably tend to do a better job separating the two. For instance, FoxNews has Chris Wallace (a news guy) doing the debates. You had Anderson Cooper on CNN who is a news guy that tends to offer opinions (not a good mix). MSNBC had Lester Holt do their debate and he is a news guy. Raddatz is primarily a news person but also does fill in work for Stephonopoulos' show. I guess the point here is that the more distinct the division between the news people and the opinion people then the more credible the news is. People lambast FoxNews, but they do a pretty good job of drawing the line between the two. So when you are watching an opinion show it is obvious and when you are watching a news show it is obvious.

    I think, where the bias is really apparent is the stories each network chooses to cover. For instance, try to find a news story on the Wikileaks stuff coming out about Hillary. On FoxNews, it is fairly prevalent. On MSNBC, it never happened. On CNN, it may have happened, but I've only seem them acknowledge it in an opinion piece. The news division, to my knowledge has pretty much buried it or ignored it. On the other hand, the Trump accusers have been front and center on all three networks. So, when people mock FoxNews as fair and balanced, they are the one news division which tends to cover stories across all spectrums both good and bad for both the DNC and GOP.

    The problem with NPR is that it can be manipulated just like any other media outlet. We are best served by competing news sources. However, the only way to ensure a large marketplace of ideas is to allow freedom of the press and allow it to be profitable. On the downside, if the public desires to consume rubbish, then rubbish is what they will largely get. This is why I don't see a viable solution which does not involve a large mushroom cloud.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  5. #25
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Actually journalism includes both opinion and non-opinion.
    Yes, but that is not what distinguishes them from say, a tabloid or entertainment magazine. Anyone and everyone has opinions. Journalists are people trained in trying to deliver factual information. If they then have opinions on that, so be it, but what matters is the facts. A journalists opinion piece should be backed up by good solid information. An opinion piece from the public, perhaps, perhaps not.

    I really and honestly don't care about bias too much. I think it's a false concern. What matters is whether they have good coverage and if they are accurate. Everyone has biases, but it shouldn't get in the way of delivering news and information.

    Fox is not bad because of bias, they are bad because they don't double check their sources and use hearsay as news all too often. Even if it's just a pundit show or opinion, their staff (not the people the interview) should be doing real research on the topics and be ready with facts and sources.

    What makes NPR good is they do their homework on most of the shows and that comes thorugh in the quality of information. When they make mistakes, they typically have retractions so people don't remain misinformed. And yes, NPR could become a place of terrible journalism and the like, but so far so good.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    And in typical Cowboy fashion, attempts at actual debate (or even civil discussion) result in a fizzle as your willingness to read what others write and actually try to comprehend what they are expressing is snuffed out by your overwhelming desire to make some sort of partisan point.[COLOR="Silver"]
    Like I said, I didn't see any points. Your "argument" can be summed up thus:

    "People need to demand better news...demand is satisfied by capitalism"

    Your plan, if I dare call it that, could be summed up as "open your window and shout".
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  7. #27
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Yes, but that is not what distinguishes them from say, a tabloid or entertainment magazine. Anyone and everyone has opinions. Journalists are people trained in trying to deliver factual information. If they then have opinions on that, so be it, but what matters is the facts. A journalists opinion piece should be backed up by good solid information. An opinion piece from the public, perhaps, perhaps not.

    I really and honestly don't care about bias too much. I think it's a false concern. What matters is whether they have good coverage and if they are accurate. Everyone has biases, but it shouldn't get in the way of delivering news and information.

    Fox is not bad because of bias, they are bad because they don't double check their sources and use hearsay as news all too often. Even if it's just a pundit show or opinion, their staff (not the people the interview) should be doing real research on the topics and be ready with facts and sources.

    What makes NPR good is they do their homework on most of the shows and that comes thorugh in the quality of information. When they make mistakes, they typically have retractions so people don't remain misinformed. And yes, NPR could become a place of terrible journalism and the like, but so far so good.
    I think bias is hugely important. If 2/3 of the major cable news networks pretend like something never happened it effects the narrative. I don't see a substantive difference in ignoring a story because it does not align with your beliefs and misreporting a story to make it align to your beliefs. They are both examples of poor journalistic integrity. They are both qualitative. If a significant percent of the population gets their news from MSNBC, CNN, the NY Times, and the L.A. Times and none of those sources report a story because it hurts a position championed by their journalists, then it effects the decisions made by the general public. It is no different than the claim that FoxNews, Breitbart, and AM Radio presents misinformation based on their ideologies. You are giving a pass to one group of media outlets when the net effect can be exactly as damaging.

    ---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Like I said, I didn't see any points. Your "argument" can be summed up thus:

    "People need to demand better news...demand is satisfied by capitalism"

    Your plan, if I dare call it that, could be summed up as "open your window and shout".
    I guess if you have the comprehension skills of an 10 year old, then yes, that would summarize my position. I was kind of hoping, here at ODN, we would have a greater sophistication in being able to read and comprehend the views and statements of others. I think, for most of the people on here it is true. Obviously, for a few others... not so much.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  8. #28
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I think bias is hugely important. If 2/3 of the major cable news networks pretend like something never happened it effects the narrative. I don't see a substantive difference in ignoring a story because it does not align with your beliefs and misreporting a story to make it align to your beliefs. They are both examples of poor journalistic integrity. They are both qualitative. If a significant percent of the population gets their news from MSNBC, CNN, the NY Times, and the L.A. Times and none of those sources report a story because it hurts a position championed by their journalists, then it effects the decisions made by the general public. It is no different than the claim that FoxNews, Breitbart, and AM Radio presents misinformation based on their ideologies. You are giving a pass to one group of media outlets when the net effect can be exactly as damaging.[COLOR="Silver"]
    No one can cover everything. Sepecialized new outlets cover specialized stories. If that specialization is conservative or liberal polticis, so be it. People get to choose what news they use. If they choose a single outlet or a group that all say the same stuff, that is on them. Its a choice they make to use a certain lens to see the world. And yes, they will be affected by that choice.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I guess if you have the comprehension skills of an 10 year old, then yes, that would summarize my position. I was kind of hoping, here at ODN, we would have a greater sophistication in being able to read and comprehend the views and statements of others. I think, for most of the people on here it is true. Obviously, for a few others... not so much.
    I'll agree with that. Your thoughts are less sophisticated that "Green Eggs and Ham" so, yes, a ten year old would have no problem with them.

    I'm glad I wasted the correct amount of energy in reading them.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I guess if you have the comprehension skills of an 10 year old, then yes, that would summarize my position. I was kind of hoping, here at ODN, we would have a greater sophistication in being able to read and comprehend the views and statements of others. I think, for most of the people on here it is true. Obviously, for a few others... not so much.
    I'll agree with that. Your thoughts are less sophisticated that "Green Eggs and Ham" so, yes, a ten year old would have no problem with them.

    I'm glad I wasted the correct amount of energy in reading them.
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  11. #31
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    No one can cover everything. Sepecialized new outlets cover specialized stories. If that specialization is conservative or liberal polticis, so be it. People get to choose what news they use. If they choose a single outlet or a group that all say the same stuff, that is on them. Its a choice they make to use a certain lens to see the world. And yes, they will be affected by that choice.
    I agree with this to a point. However, the NY Times is not Mother Jones. CNN is not claiming to be a specialized news outlet. MSNBC, you may have a point. Even FoxNews is pretty open about being a conservative news outlet. The reason we have representative government is specifically because there is an acknowledgement that people have limited time to acquire information. The media's most important job is being the public's watchdog. So, let's put aside the most right/left news sources. Sources like Drudge and MotherJones, we know they have an agenda. However, sources like the Times or CNN, which claim to be straight, independent news sources, when they do not uphold this claim, I think they cause damage. Again, I think its kind of a lost cause. People are not looking for information, but for entertainment and even validation. So, again, I am not claiming to know the solution here. I am just expressing a view that the media has let us down and that it has let us down because the American public has allowed it and even encouraged it. The media is as broken as society which is pretty broken.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

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  13. #32
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by IBELSD
    when they do not uphold this claim, I think they cause damage.
    I agree with this so much, it is some times hard to quantify or explain because as sig said we choose our news outlets.
    But we don't generally live in a "buyer beware" economic system. If I told you I have fresh oranges, and you get home and they are all rotten, then our system will nail me for false advertisement or any other damages. Like suppose you were dumb enough to eat rotten oranges based on my claim that they were fresh. I would be sued.

    Some how the media is selling us rotten oranges, and saying it's fresh, and they are not held legally accountable. Their first payment, is that they still have their "journalistic integrity". They still get to call it news, even if they are blatantly ignoring some news, and blowing up other news. look at the 24 hour news cycle, isn't there enough time to cover Trump and Hillary and all possible scandals?
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  14. #33
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Of course we are supposed to, as consumers, hold them accountable by denying them our business. And they do all compete with one another. The challenge of course is if you are a one news kind of person, you don't really have a way to measure if they are bringing you a range of topics or not.

    I'm always poking at people to get out of their ruts and go read what the opposition has to say once in a while. I try to. Sometimes its kind of "painful" but sometimes I learn something interesting.

    Lately I've been reading Assange conspiracies, fun stuff. Though clearly something is going on with that. Just not sure what, most of the headlines/speculation is wild and full of conjecture.
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  15. #34
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post

    Lately I've been reading Assange conspiracies, fun stuff. Though clearly something is going on with that. Just not sure what, most of the headlines/speculation is wild and full of conjecture.
    Yet the lack of reporting on this - which isn't true BTW as any quick search of the NYT shows - is being hailed by Ibelsd as evidence of an agenda. There's just little there. John Podesta's risotto recipe is nothing compared to mine.
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  16. #35
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Yet the lack of reporting on this - which isn't true BTW as any quick search of the NYT shows - is being hailed by Ibelsd as evidence of an agenda. There's just little there. John Podesta's risotto recipe is nothing compared to mine.
    Yep, its in the news, there just isn't a lot of hard facts other than the embasy cut off his internet access. The rest seems to all be speculation and hearsay at this point. Fun speculation though, John Kerry and extraction teams raiding the embasy and all kinds of sillyness.
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  17. #36
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Yep, its in the news, there just isn't a lot of hard facts other than the embasy cut off his internet access. The rest seems to all be speculation and hearsay at this point. Fun speculation though, John Kerry and extraction teams raiding the embasy and all kinds of sillyness.
    We talking about the leaked emails from Podesta? I mean they seemed to have happened, but if you are an avid reader of MSNBC or CNN, you might never even know the emails exist. However, just as speculative, every woman who complains Trump touched her a decade ago is headline news. Here is the thing. For both of these, the news is not really conducting investigative reporting here. They all just kind of regurgitate from other sources. As a reader/consumer, you do not really get any value. You can take any "news" story and, in general, what we get is one sentence describing the event followed by a paragraph of spin from someone's spokehole followed by another paragraph of spin from some other a-hole's spokeshole.

    Just listen to our resident progressive snowflake here on ODN. Anything he hears or reads from GoHillary.com (or whatever her website is) and on MSNBC is gospel and anything which is presented on Fox is quickly disregarded. And he is supposedly a sophisticated consumer of information. And we can wag our fingers and tell people they should give more time to reading/watching/listening to multiple sources. I mean, my 1st grade social studies teacher taught us that. Of course, we are all desk jockies more or less working in nice air-conditioned buildings with 24 hr. access to a computer, smart phone etc. So, let's get off our high horses just a little bit with the smug talk of NPR (which was never intended for the masses and is just as easily bent towards an agenda as any other source).

    We have a real information crises in the U.S. (and probably the rest of the world) which is partly fueled by a Kardashian culture and partially a case where technology has kind of overrun its coverage (to use a football analogy). Can it get better? In all honesty, I do not think things improve without some serious chaos. I was joking around with a Chinese lady at lunch where we were both bemoaning our lack of choices. She joked that we were just one party away from being equivalent to Communist China (a decidedly one party nation). I joked back that I'd probably vote for their President over either of the jokes that our running in our election. Yet, that's where we are at. An orange, haired buffoon or a sleazebag and her rapist husband. Niiiiiice! I do agree that the fix is in, but I disagree with Trump on the target. The person who should be most infuriated is Gary Johnson who couldn't get into a single debate despite being near 10% in the polls and the American people who will be forced to choose between two clowns.

    As one Democratic strategist commented to a Republican friend. Hey, I know the next few weeks is going to be tough for you. I've got it much tougher though. When this election ends, you'll quickly put it all behind you. For me, though, I've got another four years defending this train wreck.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  18. #37
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I mean they seemed to have happened, but if you are an avid reader of MSNBC or CNN, you might never even know the emails exist.
    That's because there's nothing in them. There's nothing to investigate or to report.
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by IBELSD
    We have a real information crises in the U.S. (and probably the rest of the world) which is partly fueled by a Kardashian culture and partially a case where technology has kind of overrun its coverage (to use a football analogy)
    I would say that there is another party to blame as well, and that is the "journalist" community at large. I mean, if your a lawyer or Dr or other professions you can have your licence revoked for not doing your job. So if nearly all of a given profession is really a hack or incompetent to do the basic procedure they were given a diploma for. Shouldn't they at least lose a social title? I mean, the profession of Journalism is taking a hit here and that profession as a whole has some responsibility and roll in that. In this case negligence of self regulating.

    can't we get a kind of official "journalist' list? Bring some accountability I don't know the answer, but that group is certainly to blame as much as anyone else.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  20. #39
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    That's because there's nothing in them. There's nothing to investigate or to report.
    Says the partisan hack....

    ---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I would say that there is another party to blame as well, and that is the "journalist" community at large. I mean, if your a lawyer or Dr or other professions you can have your licence revoked for not doing your job. So if nearly all of a given profession is really a hack or incompetent to do the basic procedure they were given a diploma for. Shouldn't they at least lose a social title? I mean, the profession of Journalism is taking a hit here and that profession as a whole has some responsibility and roll in that. In this case negligence of self regulating.

    can't we get a kind of official "journalist' list? Bring some accountability I don't know the answer, but that group is certainly to blame as much as anyone else.
    Journalists are just people. So, yeah, they are as much susceptible to the dumbing down of culture list like everyone else. I think journalists have lost a lot of their social status. We do not look at people like Couric and Cooper they way Americans had once looked at Brokaw and Cronkite. We look at the current crop of journalists as little more than entertainers. So, in that respect, the profession has taken a hit. However, do the people in that profession really care? I think current jouranlists are quite happy to simply be entertainers making good money and hob knobbing with the political elites. I think, to the public's credit, they generally understand they are no longer getting news. However, on the flip side, most Americans really do not care. They prefer to be entertained and have their beliefs validated.

    Look, I hate to call out ODN people, but let me use Cowboy as an example since he is active in this thread. I mean he rabidly disagrees with anything that does not align with his candidate. Just look at his response to the email leaks. He does not even believe journalists have anything to cover regarding the leaks. Why? Because they do not validate his world view I guess. They expose Hillary as an unprincipled political hack. They expose how her advisers view minorities as pawn to help win elections. They expose how she has used her foundation as a pay-for-play enterprise, giving donors access to Secretary Hillary despite her promises to both Obama and the American people. He sees no issue when her high ranking people in her campaign admitted to starting violence at Trump rallies. Now, if any of these events were about a Republican, he'd certainly jump up and point out how awful these events are, but when directed at his candidate, he defends her blindly. This is not atypical. I think this is just human nature and it takes a lot of willpower to overcome it. To allow yourself to hear things you will find unpleasant. Sometimes, when I hear unpleasant news about a candidate I supported, I'll walk away or flip the channel. It is hard because it sort of says your views are wrong and no one wants to hear they have been wrong. However, we all need to assess what we think we know and admit we have all been wrong for a very long time.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

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  22. #40
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    Re: Repesentative Democracy Is Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Says the partisan hack....[COLOR="Silver"]
    Thanks for proving me right.

    ---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I would say that there is another party to blame as well, and that is the "journalist" community at large. I mean, if your a lawyer or Dr or other professions you can have your licence revoked for not doing your job. So if nearly all of a given profession is really a hack or incompetent to do the basic procedure they were given a diploma for. Shouldn't they at least lose a social title? I mean, the profession of Journalism is taking a hit here and that profession as a whole has some responsibility and roll in that. In this case negligence of self regulating.

    can't we get a kind of official "journalist' list? Bring some accountability I don't know the answer, but that group is certainly to blame as much as anyone else.

    The problem with that is that freedom of the press is an enumerated right meaning we are all potentially journalists. I like to watch first amendment audits on youtube, Honoryouroath is my favorite, and one of the first things cops do to try and shut them down is to ask for their journalist "credentials" which are legally not required to engage in news gathering or journalistic investigation. The other professions you mentioned do have licenses but they also rely heavily on self-policing which journalists do in reality. I doubt someone from the O'Reilly factor - or even Bill O'Reilly himself - would be considered for a serious journalist job, especially not an investigative journalist. Sure, they might be fine writers. Maybe he could work on TMZ.

    ---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Just look at his response to the email leaks. He does not even believe journalists have anything to cover regarding the leaks. Why? Because they do not validate his world view I guess. They expose Hillary as an unprincipled political hack. They expose how her advisers view minorities as pawn to help win elections. They expose how she has used her foundation as a pay-for-play enterprise, giving donors access to Secretary Hillary despite her promises to both Obama and the American people. He sees no issue when her high ranking people in her campaign admitted to starting violence at Trump rallies.
    What it does is knock down any potential wrong doing she may have done in having the personal server in the first place. She was right to do so as we can see in your conflating and taking out of context anything that might have been in there. This harkens back to the supposed "climategate" scandal where reputable scientists were also mistakenly and shamelessly taken out of context for gain.

    And just goes to prove my point about a large amount of us who are used to this by now. A continued, irrational persecution of our party and candidates - relateable to what many of us experience every day - partly in a effort to cover up your own side's flaws, partly to gain political points or advance an agenda (anti-climate science, anti-vaxing, whatever), and partly in the hopes of evening the score with what happened to Nixon.

    All while continuing to provide cover to the real malfeasance such as the problems with our banking industry or Bridgegate - situations which have had real (not conjured), direct, damaging impact on the individual lives of citizens and neighbors. Yeah, nothing to see here.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

 

 
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