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  1. #1
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    Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles

    Most people believe dinosaurs became extinct before any humans existed, but many cultures have legends of creatures called dragons that closely resemble dinosaurs. This fact indicates that the extinction of dinosaurs must be very recent. (There are some who believe that there are still living dinosaurs. http://www.newanimal.org/dinosaurs.htm ) Some of these dragon legends speak of dragons that breath fire. Is it possible that such a creature actually existed? The best way to answer that question is to look at an animal that we know does exist, the bombardier beetle. Here is what Wikipedia says about it.

    Bombardier beetles are ground beetles (Carabidae) in the tribes Brachinini, Paussini, Ozaenini, or Metriini—more than 500 species altogether—which are most notable for the defense mechanism that gives them their name: when disturbed, they eject a hot noxious chemical spray from the tip of their abdomen with a popping sound.

    The spray is produced from a reaction between two chemical compounds, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, which are stored in two reservoirs in the beetle’s abdomen. When the aqueous solution of hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide reaches the vestibule, catalysts facilitate the decomposition of the hydrogen peroxide and the oxidation of the hydroquinone. Heat from the reaction brings the mixture to near the boiling point of water and produces gas that drives the ejection. The damage caused can be fatal to attacking insects. Some bombardier beetles can direct the spray over a wide range of directions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle

    Bombardier beetles defend themselves by expelling a hot liquid from their bodies. What if some dinosaurs had this ability but expelled the liquid from its nose or mouth? Because dinosaurs are much larger than beetles the amount of liquid would be much greater and if it landed on something flammable it might even be capable of starting a fire. To an observer it would appear that the dinosaur or dragon was breathing fire. Fire breathing dragons might not be a product of human imagination but something that actually did exist at one time.
    The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles

    Are you serious with this? Does that mean you also think there were minotaurs, mermaids, elves, harpies, unicorns, trolls, goblins, and are a proponent of sasquatch too?

    I do expect there is a link between dragons and dinosaurs but not the one you think. Humans have been finding dinosaur bones for a long time. We have anceint accounts from the greeks discussing such bones and that they caught people's imaginations and like today they made efforts to rationalize what these cretures were. Thinks like breathing fire are simply imaginative embelishments to the fearsome appearance of these giant monsters remains. Indeed the wide ranging descriptions and legends point to myth based on common expereince and imagination rather than a direct description of actual living creatures.

    The whole breathing fire thing is definately not impossible, its just very improbable and we have no hard evidence for it.

    ---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------

    The real nails in the coffin of the idea is that the fossil evidence just doesn't support humans and dinosaurs co existing. They are found in totally different strata and with totally different dating surrounded by drastically different other species.

    Not that humans didn't co-exist with some real monsters, we had incredible mammoths and various giant predatory cats, huge monster sloths and more. Plenty of crazy and scarry stuff that is no longer with us due to the passing of the ice age and the hunting of the humans of that time. They just weren't dinosaurs. Not to mention the huge number of other sorts of critters from earths history that never co-existed with man, or with dinosaus for that matter.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Does that mean you also think there were minotaurs, mermaids, elves, harpies, unicorns, trolls, goblins, and are a proponent of sasquatch too?
    Unicorns exist. Today we call them rhinocerouses.

    Trolls exist. I have encountered a lot of them on internet forums.

    I don't know whether any of the other creatures on your list exist or not. I am prepared to believe in their existence if I find any evidence for it.
    The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles

    Rhinos could be where unicorn legends started, but I rather doubt it. There are lots of ancient accounts of actual Rhino's, fairly accurately described and not as pretty horses with horns. I'll grant it is possible and many shcolars think the translation of Unicorn in the bible was a mistranslation in the King James (and that I do think very likely considering the King James has a few of those).

    I know you are prepared to believe quite a lot. Especially in the service of certain other beliefs. :D

    But what do you think of the likelyhood of the fossil notion as origin vs the living and breathing notion as origin. Which do you find more plausable and why?
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  5. #5
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    Re: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    But what do you think of the likelyhood of the fossil notion as origin vs the living and breathing notion as origin. Which do you find more plausable and why?
    It seems unlikely that people could have based a belief in dragons on fossils because there is no evidence that there was any widespread study of fossils in the past. It is much more likely that they actually saw the beasts that they called dragons.
    The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
    Leonard Ravenhill

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  6. #6
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    Re: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles

    Quote Originally Posted by theophilus View Post
    It seems unlikely that people could have based a belief in dragons on fossils because there is no evidence that there was any widespread study of fossils in the past. It is much more likely that they actually saw the beasts that they called dragons.
    There is evidence that ancient people studied fossils.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=wage...s+find+fossils
    "As early as the 6th century BC, the Greek philosopher Xenophanes of Colophon (570-480 BC) recognized that some fossil shells were remains of shellfish, which he used to argue that what was at the time dry land was once under the sea.[5]"

    Also interesting. You state you do not believe anceints studied fossils because there is no evidence, yet you don't have evidence they lived with dragons and you beleive that is likely true. So without evidence for either claim, you chose one that suports your religious views over another that doesn't.

    Finally you say one is more likely than another, but you don't explain why you think it is more likely.

    REasions it is unlikely
    1. The fossil record says that humans never lived with dinosaurs and the two were in totally differnet ages of the earth
    2. No living creature has ever been known to breath fire.
    3. None of the ancestors of dinosaurs (modern birds) seem to have any of the biological traits needed to breathe fire (or flamable chemicals) (but do have other dinosaur traits in abundance)
    4. There are many differnty fanciful beasts in ancient legend we have no evidence to support thus making the idea they are also fancifal likely
    5. Classic dinosaur descriptions have 4 legs and wings and no dionsaur looked remotely like that.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  7. #7
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    Re: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles

    This sounds a lot like arguments made by "Dr." Carl Baugh. He was invited to my church school when I was a teenager and he dazzled us with scientific-sounding jargon mixed in with verses from the book of Job talking about a "leviathan" that could drink up whole rivers and whose eyes glowed when it sneezed. He also talked about how, before the great flood, the firmament channeled radio waves from Heaven and smoothed people at dawn, when the heavens played music for people when they woke every day. He also claimed that the firmament allowed people to live for many hundreds of years and grow seven feet tall.

    It was fascinating for a long time, until I looked it up and found that every word of it was bullsh!t.

    Fun fact: Carl Baugh was the primary catalyst for my aggressive decent from Christianity. I was a committed, lifelong Christian, until I saw how Carl Baugh and his ilk indoctrinated kids with lies and fairy tales.

 

 

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