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  1. #61
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Sure, on the various levels adults could discuss this, you chose the course most likely adopted by adults living in a group home. Give yourself a pat on the back. You have created a thread about nothing and are smug about pointing out that the sky is blue. What trick will you perform next? A thread demonstrating that the Earth is round? That gravity exists?
    This is by far good enough, it is very enjoyable to watch.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Well, its one of those debate things. So long as some folks are willing to say the republicans are not hypocrites, there is room for people like Cowboy to try and call them on it. In our world, if you don't say the obvious fairly often, many people will miss it. If you let the propaganda of your opponents go unanswered, then folks just tend to accept it.

    If more humans would be critical and think for themselves (as you certailnly do) deivel like this would have no place. But since far too many people just believe what they are told, even when those telling it are liars, we kind of need folks to state the blindingly obvious even if its tedious for folks like us.
    The irony here is that CB would be the first to defend against any insinuation that Democratic politicians are equally hypocritical. As such, he gets no credit for stating the obvious since he is not trying to do a public service, but simply smear people with whom he disagrees. In that regard, his approach is absurd as the speaker lacks credibility. EVERYONE acts hypocritically. We ALL have competing self interests and when we have to choose between one or the other... oops, we just crossed into the hypocrite zone. Intrinsically, everyone with a brain understands this and it needn't be postulated as some point of contention. He adds this drivel in order to be provocative. It is really nothing more than trolling and this sort of discourse makes ODN worse, not better.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  3. #63
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    EVERYONE acts hypocritically. We ALL have competing self interests and when we have to choose between one or the other.
    Case in point:

    1. I understand and worry about the effects of fossil fuels on earth's environment
    2. I have bills to pay, so I work in the oil field

  4. #64
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    He adds this drivel in order to be provocative. It is really nothing more than trolling and this sort of discourse makes ODN worse, not better.
    Why didn't you say that in Someguy's thread about liberal hypocrisy? Instead you chimed in to pretty much support his argument. (Judging by your first comment in that thread I could find.)
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  5. #65
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Case in point:

    1. I understand and worry about the effects of fossil fuels on earth's environment
    2. I have bills to pay, so I work in the oil field
    Ibsled's "everybody does it" defense is hilarious and underscores his biased attitude that he accuses me of.

    When the screaming from the rooftops would be deafening if Hillary had said she hoped a foreign power was successful in hacking into our government and had also had contact with said government during the campaign.

    But we need to look no further than "pay for play" and all of the other times the Clinton finances have been under the microscope, yet, somehow, Trump's finances are of no concern...hmmmm.

    Yet, something he ran on as a major accomplishment is not to be scrutinized but John Kerry when he dared mentioned his military service, oh, that has to be gone through and all kinds of crap brought up.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  6. #66
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Strangely quiet all of a sudden. Yet with the CIA report about Russia's involvement in our election and Trump's pick for State I can't happen to think what would be the reaction from corporate media if a democrat were doing the same thing. It'd be deafening. "Treason!" "In bed with a foreign power!" "Selling us out to the commies!"

    "In 2011, Exxon signed a deal with Russian oil giant Rosneft to provide access to lucrative oil resources in the Arctic.
    Rosneft's largest shareholder is the Russian government. Putin attended the Exxon signing ceremony and later awarded Tillerson the country's Order of Friendship."http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/10/politi...ate/index.html

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  7. #67
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Strangely quiet all of a sudden. Yet with the CIA report about Russia's involvement in our election and Trump's pick for State I can't happen to think what would be the reaction from corporate media if a democrat were doing the same thing. It'd be deafening. "Treason!" "In bed with a foreign power!" "Selling us out to the commies!"
    Dude that news is absolutely everywhere in the corporate media.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Dude that news is absolutely everywhere in the corporate media.
    I was talking about my thread, and the site in general.

    But how do you see the the corporate media reporting it?

    "Speaking Sunday with CBS News’ “Face the Nation,” McCain said the Senate would give him a “fair hearing” and noted Tillerson’s ties could be “strictly commercial.”" http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...ssia-ties.html

    Everything looks pretty tame I'd say.


    "The fact that there were some emails that might or might not have something to do with Clinton absolutely had to be trumpeted to the heavens the instant they were discovered. But the fact that one of America's foremost global adversaries was not just spying on us (which we're used to), but was actively attempting to sway the American presidential election in favor of one candidate? That, the government didn't want to talk about.

    It isn't that the basic facts about what Russia appeared to be up to were unclear clear before now; I myself wrote a piece in July asking why Russia's apparent meddling wasn't the topic of screaming headlines every day. But an announcement from the executive and legislative branches uniting in what ought to have been their outrage would have led to just those headlines, and an absolutely necessary debate about what was happening and what to do about it.

    But that's not what we got. Confronted with an attack by a hostile foreign power on our most critical institutions, Republicans decided that Russian hacking was OK, as long as it was against Democrats -- indeed, as Wikileaks strategically released the hacked emails over a period of weeks for maximum political impact, Republicans celebrated.

    Trump tried to deflect attention from Russia. During one of his debates with Clinton, he said, "I notice, anytime anything wrong happens, they like to say the Russians are -- (Clinton) doesn't know if it's the Russians doing the hacking. Maybe there is no hacking."

    This was after Trump was briefed by intelligence officials who explained to him about the hacking and the evidence Russia was behind it. Let's also remember that Trump publicly implored Russia to hack into his opponent's email in the hopes that something embarrassing might be found there."http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/10/opinio...man/index.html


    and I'll add that that's the entire reason for the investigation into Hillary's emails. Seems like republican's, their media, and the Russians are playing from the same book...hmmmmm.
    Last edited by CowboyX; December 11th, 2016 at 07:19 PM.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Why didn't you say that in Someguy's thread about liberal hypocrisy? Instead you chimed in to pretty much support his argument. (Judging by your first comment in that thread I could find.)
    In Someguy's thread, I didn't agree that the Democrats were even being hypocrites. I opposed his argument. However, if you are asking why I didn't hold Someguy to the same standard, maybe I'm just a hypocrite???? Maybe, CB is simply more consistent in his trolling and really never engages in a substantive debate. He simply points out a series of supposed gotchas. His OP began with him listing 4 dudes that were part of Trump's transition team and appeared to contradict Trump's promise to drain the swamp. However, he has turned this into nothing more than a thread trolling a candidate, including anything Trump may have said or done.

    Just look at the thread. Half the time he is just posting to get himself off, in response to no one. He is not engaging in debate.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I was talking about my thread, and the site in general.

    But how do you see the the corporate media reporting it?

    "Speaking Sunday with CBS News’ “Face the Nation,” McCain said the Senate would give him a “fair hearing” and noted Tillerson’s ties could be “strictly commercial.”" http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...ssia-ties.html

    Everything looks pretty tame I'd say.
    Well I can attest that my facebook feed, limited as it is, is stuffed to the brim with people raging about the Russian angle. And any major news site I go to has articles about it. So do all the news aggragators. Of course, speaking in a reasonable and tame way is the method by which responsible journalists try to opperate.
    a
    All the time with so many issues I hear about over and over, someone is crying "And no one is talking about this!" And then I do a google search and there are hundreds of news outlets, bloggers, and others talking about it non stop.

    I just hate that old line. There are lots of things happening that no one is talking about but its pretty much never the things people are screaming that no one is talking about.
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  11. #71
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    He is not engaging in debate.
    Just because you don't have a response doesn't mean there isn't a debate going on, it means you're losing.

    ---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Well I can attest that my facebook feed, limited as it is, is stuffed to the brim with people raging about the Russian angle. And any major news site I go to has articles about it. So do all the news aggragators. Of course, speaking in a reasonable and tame way is the method by which responsible journalists try to opperate.
    Yet the corporate media can't help but carry water for the in coming administration's response:

    John Bolton says claims of Russian hacking could be "false flag" operation

    "John Bolton, who may be named deputy secretary of state, is suggesting that the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion about Russian hacking that favored Republican nominee Donald Trump could be a deception, a “false flag.”

    In an interview Sunday, Bolton told Fox News’ Eric Shawn, “It is not at all clear to me, just viewing this from the outside, that this hacking into the DNC and the RNC computers was not a false flag operation.”

    Bolton reasoned that Russia would be too sophisticated to leave evidence of its hacking. “If you think the Russians did this, why did they leave fingerprints?” he asked.

    Bolton didn’t elaborate on the term “false flag,” he seemed to be suggesting that someone could have been attempting to falsely lead the public into believing Russia was to blame for the hacking.

    Shawn followed up by asking, “Are you actually accusing someone here in the administration or in the intelligence community of trying to throw something?”

    Bolton was not specific: “We just don’t know,” he replied. “But I believe that intelligence has been politicized in the Obama administration to a very significant degree.”


    Which, as I've pointed out, is hypocritical of Bolton et al considering the howling that went on over Hillary's emails.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  12. #72
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Trump’s national security adviser shared secrets without permission, files show

    "A secret U.S. military investigation in 2010 determined that Michael T. Flynn, the retired Army general tapped to serve as national security adviser in the Trump White House, “inappropriately shared” classified information with foreign military officers in Afghanistan, newly released documents show.

    Although Flynn lacked authorization to share the classified material, he was not disciplined or reprimanded after the investigation concluded that he did not act “knowingly” and that “there was no actual or potential damage to national security as a result,” according to Army records obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act."


    Oh, my, he should've known better - wasn't that what was said of Hillary? It shouldn't matter if he did it "knowingly"? No?

    “there was no actual or potential damage to national security as a result,” - doesn't matter, the law was still broken...no?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  13. #73
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Yet the corporate media can't help but carry water for the in coming administration's response:
    Why are they carrying water for it? They are simply reporting what he said. That's what they do, report on things that happen and things people say and so forth.

    We are in agreement that Corporate media has issues, but honestly there is nothing really wrong with that report in and of itself.
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  14. #74
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Why are they carrying water for it? They are simply reporting what he said. That's what they do, report on things that happen and things people say and so forth.

    We are in agreement that Corporate media has issues, but honestly there is nothing really wrong with that report in and of itself.
    It should read "John Bolton baselessly speculates that claims of Russian hacking could be "false flag" operation".

    Because he says “We just don’t know,”
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  15. #75
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    It should read "John Bolton baselessly speculates that claims of Russian hacking could be "false flag" operation".
    That would be making a judgement about what he says. That is not a reporters job typically. Their job is to report what people say. Claim, is just fine. It expresses what he says, without giving it any credence.

    "Man claims he can predict the future" is not an endorsement that he can, just reporting its what he claims. They may well lay out his predictions, and the outcomes, but they wouldn't go into if they think he actually can or not, the reader can typically sort that out. Indeed in that Bolton piece, the questions they pose to him clearly seek to show that he has no real basis for the claim without requiring any judgement or editorial from the reporter.
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  16. #76
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    That would be making a judgement about what he says. That is not a reporters job typically. Their job is to report what people say. Claim, is just fine. It expresses what he says, without giving it any credence.
    Saying that someone made a baseless accusation (I didn't read the whole piece) when they made a baseless accusation doesn't require a judgement.
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  17. #77
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Saying that someone made a baseless accusation (I didn't read the whole piece) when they made a baseless accusation doesn't require a judgement.
    You really don't understand the concept of reporting. A reporter reports what someone says. Thy do not directly judge the quality of what they say. He in fact did have a basis for what he claimed. His argument was that Russians would not leave evidence they hacked the computer. It's a pretty dumb claim, but it is the BASIS for his claim.
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  18. #78
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    You really don't understand the concept of reporting. A reporter reports what someone says. Thy do not directly judge the quality of what they say. He in fact did have a basis for what he claimed. His argument was that Russians would not leave evidence they hacked the computer. It's a pretty dumb claim, but it is the BASIS for his claim.
    That's ridiculous. A reporter allows a person to clarify their statements especially through follow-up questions. They just don't let someone say "3 million illegals voted"...they ask "how do you know that?". If all they have to respond with is "that's what I think" or feel or believe then it is baseless.
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  19. #79
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    That's ridiculous. A reporter allows a person to clarify their statements especially through follow-up questions. They just don't let someone say "3 million illegals voted"...they ask "how do you know that?". If all they have to respond with is "that's what I think" or feel or believe then it is baseless.
    They did have follow up questions here and they rightly asked them. But they did not make their own truth judgement of the claim, and that is proper for a reporter doing a report. It was reported simply as what it was, a man making a claim. That is a properly neutral and non-judgemental description of what is reported.
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  20. #80
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    a man making a claim.
    ...with no evidence beyond what he "believes" - there's no judgement in that. According to you they asked him for his reasoning.
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