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  1. #161
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Even if that were true her use f the private server was hashed out and arguments were made that it was wrong.
    I think the end conclusion was that she "badly mishandled classified info".
    So that is what was "hashed out". The concern about her "private" server was specifically in relation to that, and that statement by the FBI was and is considered direct validation of the original complaint and concern.

    You seem to have missed all that.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  2. #162
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I think the end conclusion was that she "badly mishandled classified info".
    So that is what was "hashed out". The concern about her "private" server was specifically in relation to that, and that statement by the FBI was and is considered direct validation of the original complaint and concern.

    You seem to have missed all that.
    Doesn't matter as long as I have at least one person making it about her private server it repudiates your point that it never was. That the situation developed is irrelevant to that.

    ---------- Post added at 07:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 AM ----------

    A great deal was made of the supposed lie about the tape causing the Benghazi attack.

    I assume the same will be made if it turns out Trump lied about his having been wiretapped:

    "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"

    "But if the allegation is not true and is unsupported by evidence, that too should be a scandal on a major scale. This is the kind of accusation that, taken as part of a broader course of conduct, could get the current president impeached. We shouldn’t care that the allegation was made early on a Saturday morning on Twitter.

    False and defamatory speech isn’t protected by the First Amendment.

    And an allegation of potentially criminal misconduct made without evidence is itself a form of serious misconduct by the government official who makes it.

    Given how great the executive’s power is, accusations by the president can’t be treated asymmetrically. If the alleged action would be impeachable if true, so must be the allegation if false. Anything else would give the president the power to distort democracy by calling his opponents criminals without ever having to prove it."
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  3. #163
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Doesn't matter as long as I have at least one person making it about her private
    HA! hilarious!
    Sure you can find whatever you want, we do have he internet after all. That doesn't make it the driving force behind the criticism or the issue that is worth discussing.
    If your argument is that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE was upset because Hillary (insert frivolity). Then I gladly concede...
    If however your argument is that Republicans in general are being hypocritical. Well, then you need a lot more to support your position than "one guy said such and such".

    So, no you have in no way repudiated what I have demonstraited.

    ----
    Yay, new issue.

    --
    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    A great deal was made of the supposed lie about the tape causing the Benghazi attack.

    I assume the same will be made if it turns out Trump lied about his having been wiretapped:
    Not sure if it should.
    We have never had a tweeting President like this before. Not sure where to place it. Is it official national policy? Or is it a live stream of consciousness?

    On the substance side, Trump was apparently referencing a news articular. Where as the tape thing was a calculated decision to deceive the people and became central policy repeated even to the family of those who were killed.
    So I'm not sure how comparable it is.

    Though I haven't been keeping up with the news .. so. new info would be nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    "But if the allegation is not true and is unsupported by evidence, that too should be a scandal on a major scale. This is the kind of accusation that, taken as part of a broader course of conduct, could get the current president impeached. We shouldn’t care that the allegation was made early on a Saturday morning on Twitter.
    Not sure I see it. Impeached over twitter? seems far fetched.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    False and defamatory speech isn’t protected by the First Amendment.

    And an allegation of potentially criminal misconduct made without evidence is itself a form of serious misconduct by the government official who makes it.

    Given how great the executive’s power is, accusations by the president can’t be treated asymmetrically. If the alleged action would be impeachable if true, so must be the allegation if false. Anything else would give the president the power to distort democracy by calling his opponents criminals without ever having to prove it."
    I'm a bit amused at this. We have put up with the media making the same kind of accusations without consequence.
    If it is criminal for the president, it should be criminal for the media. So this complaint is falling on deaf ears for me.
    I think society and the media is getting exactly what it deserves. The media has been pulling this trick for years, and now we have a president that is playing the same game.

    Not sure of the validity of the claims to criminality... Especially the line of argument that if it is impeachable if true, then the person making the accusation must be impeached. ...
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  4. #164
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    HA! hilarious!
    Sure you can find whatever you want, we do have he internet after all. That doesn't make it the driving force behind the criticism or the issue that is worth discussing.
    If your argument is that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE was upset because Hillary (insert frivolity). Then I gladly concede...
    If however your argument is that Republicans in general are being hypocritical. Well, then you need a lot more to support your position than "one guy said such and such".

    So, no you have in no way repudiated what I have demonstraited.
    From my original argument:

    "Throughout the campaign, Donald Trump used Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server while Secretary of State against her on a consistent basis, calling her “guilty a hell” and running attack ads against her, all while rally crowds chanted “lock her up.”""

    You tried to argue that it was never made an issue about the use of a private email server, I showed that it was. That was also used to dig deeper and expose other things is irrelevant to the argument.

    Pence did the same thing.

    I will add that once the Hillary email server story was debunked it was dropped but that doesn't change that arguments were and continued to be made.

    ---------- Post added at 04:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    Not sure I see it. Impeached over twitter? seems far fetched.
    Impeached (well, resigned) over a tape recording? Doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

    The argument against Hillary was that they lied about the tape in order to deceive us. Now I somewhat agree with that and have made the argument that the idea was to downplay the effectiveness of the Benghazi attack. Others were certain there was a coverup of some kind of incompetence, mistake, or misfeasance which never played out. Rather, the mistake was traced back to the CIA.

    It will be interesting to see what "mistake" the Trump supposed lie will be excused with.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  5. #165
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    You tried to argue that it was never made an issue about the use of a private email server, I showed that it was. That was also used to dig deeper and expose other things is irrelevant to the argument.
    And I showed by use of the timeline of events that the simple fact that there were other issues at play than simply her having a private server. Namely her destroying evidence, her use of that private server for work and thus inherently raising the possibility of using it for classified info.
    That is the backdrop that trump was referring too, and can't be wiped away because a person just called it an "e-mail scandal". You are simply ignoring the greater context. ... and continue to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    I will add that once the Hillary email server story was debunked it was dropped but that doesn't change that arguments were and continued to be made.
    Debunked? What are you talking about man? The end of it only occurred because the election is over and the Obama gov was never going to pursue charges. If anything all the accusations were officially established as true by Comey in that famous breefing.
    1- She lied about the nature of her email and it's use 2- She destroyed gov documents 3-she did not turn over all documents. 4 she badly mishandled classified (even at the highest markings) information.

    That no criminal charges were brought, doesn't mean it was "debunked".
    The conclusion was that all the accusations were true. The opposite of debunked.
    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Impeached (well, resigned) over a tape recording? Doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

    The argument against Hillary was that they lied about the tape in order to deceive us. Now I somewhat agree with that and have made the argument that the idea was to downplay the effectiveness of the Benghazi attack. Others were certain there was a coverup of some kind of incompetence, mistake, or misfeasance which never played out. Rather, the mistake was traced back to the CIA.

    It will be interesting to see what "mistake" the Trump supposed lie will be excused with.
    I don't know man, the left is going to have all kinds of egg on it's face if these reports are true...

    "Trump says he will submit evidence of wiretapping to House committee 'very soon'"
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...very-soon.html


    On the other hand, if there is ultimately no evidence I'm not so excited about this direction, but I think it will be the new norm.


    I think what will actually happen, is that he will provide evidence of something. Left's will say it is nothing, but it will be something enough to make any talk of impeachment silly and overreaching.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  6. #166
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    And I showed by use of the timeline of events that the simple fact that there were other issues at play than simply her having a private server. Namely her destroying evidence, her use of that private server for work and thus inherently raising the possibility of using it for classified info.
    That is the backdrop that trump was referring too, and can't be wiped away because a person just called it an "e-mail scandal". You are simply ignoring the greater context. ... and continue to do so.
    Of course, because there's no reason, beyond speculation, to do so otherwise.

    ---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    Debunked? What are you talking about man? The end of it only occurred because the election is over and the Obama gov was never going to pursue charges. If anything all the accusations were officially established as true by Comey in that famous breefing.
    1- She lied about the nature of her email and it's use 2- She destroyed gov documents 3-she did not turn over all documents. 4 she badly mishandled classified (even at the highest markings) information.

    That no criminal charges were brought, doesn't mean it was "debunked".
    The conclusion was that all the accusations were true. The opposite of debunked.
    Sorry, I should have clarified. That she was legally able to use a personal email server was debunked. In the beginning there was a question about it and there's no reason to believe that that's not what Trump was referring to.

    ---------- Post added at 09:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I don't know man, the left is going to have all kinds of egg on it's face if these reports are true...

    "Trump says he will submit evidence of wiretapping to House committee 'very soon'"
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...very-soon.html


    On the other hand, if there is ultimately no evidence I'm not so excited about this direction, but I think it will be the new norm.


    I think what will actually happen, is that he will provide evidence of something. Left's will say it is nothing, but it will be something enough to make any talk of impeachment silly and overreaching.
    It can't be evidence of "something". He said his phones were tapped.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  7. #167
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Donald Trump says he learned Obama tapped his phones from the New York Times

    "Our ruling

    Trump said "the New York Times wrote about" Obama wiretapping him during the election.

    The New York Times article Trump references says the FBI has used intercepted communications in its investigation of several Trump associates and their ties to Russia. It does not say Obama ordered this surveillance, nor does it say Trump’s own phones were tapped or that he was under surveillance in any way.

    Trump took an article about legitimate intelligence investigations and completely distorted it. We rate his claim False."

    hmmm, another lie.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  8. #168
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    hmmm, another lie.
    Apparently, because he got it from "real clear politics", which is the source of the question by Fox's Bret Bier report that Trump also referenced.
    So he is just lying about the source to give it more mainstream appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    It can't be evidence of "something". He said his phones were tapped.
    I'm willing to wait a few days to see if there is anything to his "evidence" before we start saying "impeach".

    Which, even if completely false I don't think there is any real issue in that area. He isn't going to be impeached over this.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  9. #169
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    Re: Republican Hypocracies

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    I'm willing to wait a few days to see if there is anything to his "evidence" before we start saying "impeach".
    Quote Originally Posted by LINK
    Trump team communications captured by intelligence community surveillance, Nunes says
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...unes-says.html
    So the trump team was captured by surveillance.



    https://www.yahoo.com/news/wsj-trump...153017659.html
    WSJ, thinks Trump is like a drunk in his claims.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ap-claims-fiz/
    Andrew Napolitano on a break for his claims.. but he won't back down.

    -----

    Contradictory info out there. There is apparently surveillance of the trump team. So ... that ain't nothing.

    But is it serious? probably not.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

 

 
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