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  1. #1
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    The Attack on Comic Books

    I will start this conspiracy in 1948 with Dr. Fredric Wertham who wrote, "The Psychopathology of Comic Books".
    http://www.psu.edu/dept/inart10_110/.../cmbk4cca.html
    Which would lead to the The mass burning of comic books on December 20th, in 1948 and the eventual creation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority
    The Comics Code Authority (CCA) was formed in 1954 by the Comics Magazine Association of America as an alternative to government regulation, to allow the comic publishers to self-regulate the content of comic books in the United States. Its code, commonly called "the Comics Code," lasted until the early 21st century.
    The Code was revised a number of times during 1971, initially on January 28, 1971, to allow for, among other things, the sometimes "sympathetic depiction of criminal behavior... [and] corruption among public officials" ("as long as it is portrayed as exceptional and the culprit is punished"[12]) as well as permitting some criminal activities to kill law-enforcement officers and the "suggestion but not portrayal of seduction."[12]

    Around this time, the United States Department of Health, Education and Welfare approached Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Stan Lee to do a story about drug abuse.[12] Lee agreed and wrote a three-part Spider-Man story, portraying drug use as dangerous and unglamorous.
    The authority may not be there but the morality they created still exists. Main stream books, movies and games still follow a basic rule of redemption for crimes and a limited action about sex. The conspiracy itself would be that your own government believes that comic books can influence childrens decisions and later life style choices.
    So if reading comic books can influence my behaviour towards drugs, is it not then also possible that wertham was in fact right and comic books can also bring about juvenile tendencies or lead to homosexual activities and teach girls improper attitudes?

    With the popular rising of marvel and dc super heroes at the cinemas should we be wondering if the next generation of children might end up being a little bit more gay than usual?


    .

  2. #2
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by SoylentGreen View Post

    children might end up being a little bit more gay than usual?
    We can only hope.

    I used to enjoy pulp comics - not so much now - and I turned out fine!

    You'll have to point us to Dr. Wertham's analysis in your source, what does he base his conclusions on?

    Me, I'd base it on tapping into some kind of "magical thinking" and exploiting it.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  3. #3
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    We can only hope.

    I used to enjoy pulp comics - not so much now - and I turned out fine!

    You'll have to point us to Dr. Wertham's analysis in your source, what does he base his conclusions on?

    Me, I'd base it on tapping into some kind of "magical thinking" and exploiting it.
    It is in the first link Basically it is association. he based his observations on delinquency by only looking at delinquents.

    [Removed response to deleted post]
    Last edited by Squatch347; December 6th, 2016 at 01:06 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by SoylentGreen View Post
    It is in the first link Basically it is association. he based his observations on delinquency by only looking at delinquents.

    [Removed response to deleted post]
    Oh, ok, I see:

    "According to Wertham, comic books were giving kids wrong ideas about the laws of physics, because Superman could fly! He also charged that comic books were implementing and re-enforcing homosexual thoughts because Robin was drawn with bare legs, that were often wide open, and that Robin seemed devoted and attached to only Batman. Dr. Wertham also stated that Wonder Woman was giving little girls the "wrong ideas" about a woman's place in society."

    hee-hee, I get it. And I must agree. Not too many people walk around in tights, so, yeah, outlets for various fantasies and even allowing you to (potentially) participate by buying x-ray glasses or a secret undersea society.

    His only problem, however, obejectively, is which fantasy is he railing against - surely not Santa Claus or The Bible.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  5. #5
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Oh, ok, I see:

    "According to Wertham, comic books were giving kids wrong ideas about the laws of physics, because Superman could fly! He also charged that comic books were implementing and re-enforcing homosexual thoughts because Robin was drawn with bare legs, that were often wide open, and that Robin seemed devoted and attached to only Batman. Dr. Wertham also stated that Wonder Woman was giving little girls the "wrong ideas" about a woman's place in society."

    hee-hee, I get it. And I must agree. Not too many people walk around in tights, so, yeah, outlets for various fantasies and even allowing you to (potentially) participate by buying x-ray glasses or a secret undersea society.

    His only problem, however, obejectively, is which fantasy is he railing against - surely not Santa Claus or The Bible.
    Not fantasy but reality was what he was fighting, a true conservative. America had just come out of a war. The country had spent years on a war footing where even the public underwent a military style life just in the way they structured their environment. The most obvious example was the dress code worn in those days was practically a uniform style of wear. Comic books flagrantly went against what some called common attitude among americans. Which brings me back to the same question, and is what this supposition is based on, Do comic books influence our decisions later in life.
    Thousands of american soldiers and there brothers retired after the war still read comic books, but wertham only studied juvenile delinquents who read comic books. When you have a group of people who do not conform to local standards and they are subjected to visual images then does it have an effect? Basically i am describing another movie, " clockwork orange." Which brings us back to the conspiracy why is the government following this line of thinking and paying to have comics influence children and adults who read comics?

    The theme that images effect our thinking to the point where it effects what decisions we make in later life has some basis. But from comic books? And if so then why not movies or games?
    These are things that are becoming prevalent in our societies i think it fair to ask the questions.

  6. #6
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by SoylentGreen View Post
    When you have a group of people who do not conform to local standards and they are subjected to visual images then does it have an effect? Basically i am describing another movie, " clockwork orange." Which brings us back to the conspiracy why is the government following this line of thinking and paying to have comics influence children and adults who read comics?

    The theme that images effect our thinking to the point where it effects what decisions we make in later life has some basis. But from comic books? And if so then why not movies or games?
    These are things that are becoming prevalent in our societies i think it fair to ask the questions.

    Just so I get your line of reasoning - you're saying the government is paying to have comic books published that are causing non-conformity in juveniles?

    Or is it that they are predisposed to non-conformity and these stimuli bring it out in them?

    What would be the reason for that? Maybe so they can be identified and rounded up more easily?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  7. #7
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Just so I get your line of reasoning - you're saying the government is paying to have comic books published that are causing non-conformity in juveniles?

    Or is it that they are predisposed to non-conformity and these stimuli bring it out in them?

    What would be the reason for that? Maybe so they can be identified and rounded up more easily?
    Not at all. I was pointing out that Werthams mistake was not setting up a control group to measure against. so his findings were biased not to mention that some of his findings were based on the morally approved attitude of the time rather than actual observation of behaviour.
    The governments problem here is that by paying Marvel to do anti drug comics then obviously someone with authority does believe comic books can influence.

    "predisposed to non-conformity". Considering the behaviour is learnt not inherited then what predisposes them?

    ---------- Post added at 08:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 AM ----------
    sigfried
    It really is not a consideration that they might throw in an occasional Nazi or Asian or whatever, as long as the point is that by this method they can influence. games do not so much reflect a culture as give the player the opportunity to kill people of that culture
    There are games where rapes involved and the player given a choice. The influence for that choice is where the heart of this is.

    My argument on this is that these games will influence and teach that rape and violence is ok for two reasons. The first is that the child already lives in a family that suffers from family violence. So that what they see on games is enforced by what they see in real life. The second is that the player is a sociopath to some degree and is incapable of differentiating between what they do in a game and what they can do in real life.

    I base this on the idea that peoples brains do have the facility to differentiate between reality and fantasy. But when reality reflects the game or other way around then confusion sets in.

    The question is to what point do we allow violence and rape scenes. Most people can handle it alright. But on the other hand the more violent the game the more it is a stimulant to some.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by SoylentGreen View Post
    It really is not a consideration that they might throw in an occasional Nazi or Asian or whatever, as long as the point is that by this method they can influence. games do not so much reflect a culture as give the player the opportunity to kill people of that culture
    What I mean to say is games often reflect the culture that produces and consumes them. So if Muslim terrorists are something people fear and want to fight back agaisnt, they will show up in games as enemies to fight. Most violent games are fantasy, people have an urge to fight but recognize it's not something they want to really do in reality, so games offer fantacy catharsis. Same goes for porn and other fantacy products of a "darker" nature.

    There are games where rapes involved and the player given a choice. The influence for that choice is where the heart of this is.
    Sure, I just mean to say they are very uncommon and usually marketed as pornography for adults, and most of them are from Japan where fantasy mores are a fair bit different.

    My argument on this is that these games will influence and teach that rape and violence is ok for two reasons. The first is that the child already lives in a family that suffers from family violence. So that what they see on games is enforced by what they see in real life. The second is that the player is a sociopath to some degree and is incapable of differentiating between what they do in a game and what they can do in real life.
    Your english is a little confusing here... you mean that in these two instances you think games can teach violence and rape are ok?

    I think sociopaths are a special case and games are just not going to matter much. A sociopath doesn't care about other peoples feelings, so whatever their desires and urges are, they have no compunction if it involves hurting people. I doubt they need games to give them any inspiration. I'd think Scitzophrenics would possibly face the greatest danger, the break from reality could mean events in a game could become part of their internal reality. THough that's just speculation on my part. All of this is I suppose, I'm not an expert and havn't studied the literature on the subject much.

    I think in a violent family, the family life has a far greater influence on the kid than any game would.

    Still, I think that caution is always good.

    Generally I'd say that kids should not play games that contain themes or events that the kids have not demonstrated they understand the meaning of. Also if they can't easily distinguisth fantacy from reality.

    I base this on the idea that peoples brains do have the facility to differentiate between reality and fantasy. But when reality reflects the game or other way around then confusion sets in.
    I read one article about a study that demonstrated a wide range among people as to how well they seperate reality from fantasy. Some people are great at it, some not so much. I love fantacy myself, but I feel like I'm on the far side of the seperation game. So much so I find it hard to understand people who have religious beliefs. They always strike me as deeply fantastical.

    The question is to what point do we allow violence and rape scenes. Most people can handle it alright. But on the other hand the more violent the game the more it is a stimulant to some.
    Well, I tend to be of the mindset that its ok for the Government to require products to be labled according to content. But I'm not fond of the government dictating what those contents can be. I make exceptions to that for some things involving criminality or where people are victimized to produce the media.
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  9. #9
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    I think that everything children experience has an impact on what kind of adults they become. Propaganda aimed at kids can be incredibly effective.

    Now, when a kid gets a lot of mixed messages, which ones stick is not so predictable.

    I can say for myself, Star Trek was incredibly influential in the formulation of my moral views on many subjects. As strange as that may seem I think its true. My yin and yang are Kirk and Spock.

    I think there are some things, like being gay or straight that wouldn't be much influenced, only how someone feels about being gay or straight.

    I didn't read many comics as a kid. It turned out I was mildly alergic to the ink they used when I was a child. Or at least that's how I remember it.
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I think that everything children experience has an impact on what kind of adults they become. Propaganda aimed at kids can be incredibly effective.
    Then should we be more concerned about the impact games and movies have? How many of the army games portray the enemy as middle eastern ? Or have rape scenes?


    I can say for myself, Star Trek was incredibly influential in the formulation of my moral views on many subjects. As strange as that may seem I think its true. My yin and yang are Kirk and Spock.
    Even to the point where you refuse to wear a red shirt?

  11. #11
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by SoylentGreen View Post
    Then should we be more concerned about the impact games and movies have? How many of the army games portray the enemy as middle eastern ? Or have rape scenes?
    Perhaps. I don't have any children but if I did I would think about what media I expose them to and what message it sends. Not that I would want to entirely shelter them, they will have to deal with an unfiltered world in pretty short order as they grow up.

    Lots of games have middle eastern enemies. Also popular are Nazis and Private militaries, aliens, and communists. They often reflect the cultural conflicts in society for better or worse.

    I don't know of many games that portray rape, excluding hentai which I'm sure has its share but presumably is for adults only. I think its a lot more common in film and literature. I thik kids, especially boys should be taught about it and that it is a horrible crime. Games could be used for that, though I think its better to just talk to your kids about it directly.

    Even to the point where you refuse to wear a red shirt?
    Apparently not because I'm wearing a red D&D shirt right now! But were I exploring an alien planet, I might think twice.
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  12. #12
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    Re: The Attack on Comic Books

    Quote Originally Posted by SoylentGreen View Post
    should we be wondering if the next generation of children might end up being a little bit more gay than usual?
    .
    I'm sorry soylent but is this end statement's farcical in nature?
    A divided minority will always beat a divided majority.

 

 

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