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  1. #21
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I guess you cannot really answer my question, so I'll accept your concession. Have a great day.
    None of those things happened during the Obama administration yet you had plenty of people buying gold and guns and preaching about the fall of civilization. The Russia investigation, alone, is a bigger deal than anything happened in the past 8 years and is worthy of news attention.

    As to there being no "new war" I'll remind you that we near enough were almost in one and, funny enough, not too much was made by your side when the american people were lied to.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I have pointed it out elsewhere. However, if you had an objective bone in your body, you'd acknowledge that Trump has been treated for more harshly than his predecessor. The media has shown a clear bias against Trump and the Republican party since Trump took office. Something like 80% of media coverage on Trump is negative.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...onald-trump-s/
    But negative coverage, even harsh negative coverage is not support for bias. It may very well be that negative coverage is warranted and precisely what this White House administration in chaos deserves.

    This especially when you look at how it was kicked off in the very first press conference:
    Lying about crowd sizes


    Approval ratings are record low as well, and this may very well be a result of poor performance, not unfair bias.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
    - Wayne Gretzky

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  4. #23
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    But negative coverage, even harsh negative coverage is not support for bias. It may very well be that negative coverage is warranted and precisely what this White House administration in chaos deserves.

    This especially when you look at how it was kicked off in the very first press conference:
    Lying about crowd sizes


    Approval ratings are record low as well, and this may very well be a result of poor performance, not unfair bias.
    Perhaps, you have missed where I addressed this. However, since our tramp stamped DNC mouthpiece does not seem to get it, I'll repeat it for your benefit. Ok, so, for the vast majority of us, is life very different than it was 6 months ago? I mean, has something catastrophic occurred which has impacted our lives to the point where you'd expect 4 out of every 5 news stories to be negative when just six months ago, only about 1 out of every 4 stories was negative? Let's take approval ratings with a grain of salt since they do not occur in a vacuum. I mean, if the majority of people only hear negative stories about the current admin, then, of course, they'll disapprove. The only way they wouldn't disapprove in such an environment is if things got tremendously better which I am not arguing.

    Let's be clear, I am not arguing that the current admin does not deserve some amount of negative press. That would be myopic and a claim that only a DNC tramp stamp would approve of. I am trying to be objective and reasonable. And, I think it is unreasonable to believe that things are so bad that 80+% of all stories are negative. Let's remember, that 80% takes into account all news sources. If you remove a couple sources like FoxNews, then numbers are even more skewed. We can even agree that Trump is largely an asshat and a clown and I'd still argue that the number of negative news stories are peculiarly high. So, to believe that this has occurred without a significant amount of bias is, quite frankly, not a credible position.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

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  6. #24
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Perhaps, you have missed where I addressed this. However, since our tramp stamped DNC mouthpiece does not seem to get it, I'll repeat it for your benefit. Ok, so, for the vast majority of us, is life very different than it was 6 months ago? I mean, has something catastrophic occurred which has impacted our lives to the point where you'd expect 4 out of every 5 news stories to be negative when just six months ago, only about 1 out of every 4 stories was negative? Let's take approval ratings with a grain of salt since they do not occur in a vacuum. I mean, if the majority of people only hear negative stories about the current admin, then, of course, they'll disapprove. The only way they wouldn't disapprove in such an environment is if things got tremendously better which I am not arguing.

    Let's be clear, I am not arguing that the current admin does not deserve some amount of negative press. That would be myopic and a claim that only a DNC tramp stamp would approve of. I am trying to be objective and reasonable. And, I think it is unreasonable to believe that things are so bad that 80+% of all stories are negative. Let's remember, that 80% takes into account all news sources. If you remove a couple sources like FoxNews, then numbers are even more skewed. We can even agree that Trump is largely an asshat and a clown and I'd still argue that the number of negative news stories are peculiarly high. So, to believe that this has occurred without a significant amount of bias is, quite frankly, not a credible position.
    That's just a hasty generalization. You have any examples?
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  7. #25
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    That's just a hasty generalization. You have any examples?
    You saying someone has committed a hasty generalization fallacy does not make it so.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  8. #26
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    You saying someone has committed a hasty generalization fallacy does not make it so.
    Not supporting your argument does, I'm just pointing that out.
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  9. #27
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I mean, has something catastrophic occurred which has impacted our lives to the point where you'd expect 4 out of every 5 news stories to be negative when just six months ago, only about 1 out of every 4 stories was negative?
    Events out of Washington power circles rarely have any concrete catastrophic impacts in ordinary life (rarely even have any effect at all) so that is not a measuring stick.
    It seems pretty obvious to me that negative coverage is a result of constant, steady stream of self-inflicted wounds.

    Even on a clear sunday morning when there should be no news at all the Prez can tweet something outrageous that either antagozine to no end or undermine his very own agenda.

    It's outrageous!
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  10. #28
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Not supporting your argument does, I'm just pointing that out.
    Just another unsupported claim by Cowboy. Again, just pronouncing a fallacy or claiming someone's claims are unsupported does not make it true.

    ---------- Post added at 09:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Events out of Washington power circles rarely have any concrete catastrophic impacts in ordinary life (rarely even have any effect at all) so that is not a measuring stick
    Why not? As you've just admitted, things are pretty normal. So, shouldn't we expect a normal amount of negative (and positive) press.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    It seems pretty obvious to me that negative coverage is a result of constant, steady stream of self-inflicted wounds.
    Is Trump stabbing himself with a dagger on live t.v.? I'll grant you that Trump's behavior could be a valid explanation for a subtle increase in negative press. But 80% negative? Closer to 90% negative if you remove FoxNews? Again, among the things he has said or done, have many of them had a significant impact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Even on a clear sunday morning when there should be no news at all the Prez can tweet something outrageous that either antagozine to no end or undermine his very own agenda.

    It's outrageous!
    Let's just look at a single issue; Russian collusion. The press has reported on this issue ad nauseam. However, there has not been a single shred of evidence to support it. How much paper and airtime has the press wasted on this issue.. except is wasted the correct description? Clearly, they have used this non-issue issue to paint Trump negatively. Now, did Trump start these rumors? Is he to blame for the unnamed sources who made the claims? Has the press taken the time to offer a mea culpa? Exonerate him? Say, gee, guess Trump isn't a Russian spy? How much negative press was dedicated to this phony issue? And now you're going to argue that the press reported on this issue objectively? That the press reports on this president objectively? You're joking, right? We have a late night host on a major network telling the watching public that Trump has Putin's **** in his mouth.. objective??? Bias free?

    I have focused on the raw numbers, but as the example shows, there is also an issue of tone.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  11. #29
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Just another unsupported claim by Cowboy. Again, just pronouncing a fallacy or claiming someone's claims are unsupported does not make it true.[COLOR="Silver"]
    Looking at your complete lack of support does.

    https://youtu.be/dX8ya0rsFtE

    Pretty much sums it up showing how Trump is deserving of criticism and the only lame thing Faux News could dig up. lol

    ---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    Let's just look at a single issue; Russian collusion. The press has reported on this issue ad nauseam. However, there has not been a single shred of evidence to support it.
    You can support or retract that - {challenge thingy}
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  12. #30
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Looking at your complete lack of support does.
    Again, you claim something, but it does not make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    https://youtu.be/dX8ya0rsFtE

    Pretty much sums it up showing how Trump is deserving of criticism and the only lame thing Faux News could dig up. lol
    That would be consistent with starting a link war which is against ODN policy. Please read the ODN rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    You can support or retract that - {challenge thingy}
    Ok. Looked. Couldn't find a shred of evidence. Point stands.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  13. #31
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Why not? As you've just admitted, things are pretty normal. So, shouldn't we expect a normal amount of negative (and positive) press.
    It's not a reliable metric. I already stated why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Let's just look at a single issue; Russian collusion. The press has reported on this issue ad nauseam. However, there has not been a single shred of evidence to support it. How much paper and airtime has the press wasted on this issue.. except is wasted the correct description? Clearly, they have used this non-issue issue to paint Trump negatively. Now, did Trump start these rumors? Is he to blame for the unnamed sources who made the claims? Has the press taken the time to offer a mea culpa? Exonerate him? Say, gee, guess Trump isn't a Russian spy? How much negative press was dedicated to this phony issue? And now you're going to argue that the press reported on this issue objectively? That the press reports on this president objectively? You're joking, right? We have a late night host on a major network telling the watching public that Trump has Putin's **** in his mouth.. objective??? Bias free?
    Has any of the Congressional, Senate or Special Prosecution looking into the matter of Russia finish and given their conclusions yet? Has the press written that Trump has colluded ?

    He is getting bad press because he constantly down plays the importance and the significance of Russia meddling into the election, because the many ties with Russia his campaign had, the firing of Comey which aggravates the optics and now it seems, possible the obstruction of justice with regards to conversations with Comey and the others in the Intelligence community. The press just reports the play by play which is constantly bad.

    If, he would acknowledge the seriousness of the Russian affair, cooporate to shed light, and just concentrate on actually getting his agenda moving forward, he would have better press.

    Plus, his advisor Steeve Bannon encourages him to attach the Press... It's an open war, so obviously you will get bad coverage.

    No, things are not normal... way far from normal, but these unnormal things just aren't the kind that affect peoples lives directly or in a catastrophic way.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  14. #32
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Ok. Looked. Couldn't find a shred of evidence. Point stands.
    "Very little of the Comey testimony touched on collusion, because he regards it as too sensitive to discuss in open session — itself a damning fact. If this were “fake news,” as Trump alleges, there would be no classified information to protect.

    That there was public collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, while the Kremlin was interfering in the U.S. election, is undisputed. Trump, after all, publicly called on July 27, 2016, for the Russians to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails (“Russia, if you’re listening …”). He then celebrated the resulting leaks from WikiLeaks (“I love WikiLeaks”), which his own CIA director has identified as “a nonstate hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.”"http://www.businessinsider.com/comey...on-with-russia

    ---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    That would be consistent with starting a link war which is against ODN policy. Please read the ODN rules.
    I'm not the one with an argument needing support, so, no, it doesn't. I may have gotten ahead of myself, granted.

    ---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Again, you claim something, but it does not make it true.
    Which is exactly what you did, claimed Trump is undeserving of negative press without supporting it.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  15. #33
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    "Very little of the Comey testimony touched on collusion, because he regards it as too sensitive to discuss in open session — itself a damning fact. If this were “fake news,” as Trump alleges, there would be no classified information to protect.

    That there was public collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, while the Kremlin was interfering in the U.S. election, is undisputed. Trump, after all, publicly called on July 27, 2016, for the Russians to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails (“Russia, if you’re listening …”). He then celebrated the resulting leaks from WikiLeaks (“I love WikiLeaks”), which his own CIA director has identified as “a nonstate hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.”"http://www.businessinsider.com/comey...on-with-russia

    ---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------



    I'm not the one with an argument needing support, so, no, it doesn't. I may have gotten ahead of myself, granted.

    ---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------



    Which is exactly what you did, claimed Trump is undeserving of negative press without supporting it.
    1. Your quote about collusion is someone's opinion to be sure, but it is clearly bogus when it claims that collusion is undisputed. You have nothing here. None of that amounts to collusion. Nothing Comey has said about possible collusion was damning. He did clearly state that Trump, himself, isn't under investigation. Again, there is simply no evidence to support such a conclusion at this time. Maybe in the future your wet dream will be fulfilled. I don't know.

    2. I absolutely supported my claim. Several times now. Whether you agree with it or not is a separate issue. I can certainly appreciate that we disagree. However, this does not mean or equate to me not offering support. I offered a logical defense of my conclusion. The very fact you have attempted to rebut some of the premises indicates an argument was made.

    Let's be clear about collusion, which is a legal term.
    "secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others."

    So, is publicly calling on Russia to find Clinton's missing emails and turn them over to the FBI secretive? Is he trying to cheat or deceive here? Would this amount to illegal cooperation or rise to the level of conspiracy? Again, there is simply no evidence of collusion. Even Mr. Tingler (the guy who got tingles up and down his legs when Obama ran) has admitted the idea of collusion died with Comey's testimony.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/8/chris-matthews-trump-russia-collusion-theories-cam/
    “The big story to me has always been … the assumption of the critics of the president — of his pursuers, you might say — is that somewhere along the line in the last year the president had something to do with colluding with the Russians, something to [give] a helping hand, encouraging them, feeding their desire to affect the decision in some way,” Mr. Matthews said, the Daily Caller reported. “And yet, what came apart this morning was that theory in two regards.”

    But, I get it. You are going to stick to this theory at all costs. It does not make the theory credible. So, again, we are back to, if this theory is not credible, why is it still being obsessed over by the media....

    ---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    It's not a reliable metric. I already stated why not.
    What is a reliable metric? His tweet count? Whatever fits your argument? You are expecting us to believe that on media not named FoxNews, nine out of ten stories about Trump are negative and no bias is involved? So, if an actual tragedy occurs on his watch, would we not expect the negativity of the press to rise even greater? I think it is a useful metric.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Has any of the Congressional, Senate or Special Prosecution looking into the matter of Russia finish and given their conclusions yet? Has the press written that Trump has colluded ?
    Per Comey, Trump isn't under investigation. So, we shouldn't expect any conclusions on the matter, should we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    He is getting bad press because he constantly down plays the importance and the significance of Russia meddling into the election, because the many ties with Russia his campaign had, the firing of Comey which aggravates the optics and now it seems, possible the obstruction of justice with regards to conversations with Comey and the others in the Intelligence community. The press just reports the play by play which is constantly bad.
    Even in your defense of the media you throw out another misguided media trope regarding possible obstruction of justice. Comey works for Trump. You do realize this, right? We may claim Trump's behavior towards Comey was inappropriate. We could even go as far as saying it was unethical. However, there is nothing which would provide a legal argument that Trump obstructed justice. I mean, consider that Trump could have simply given Flynn immunity. That's a President's right. So, the idea that he is obstructing justice by merely expressing his hope to Comey that the investigation on Flynn goes away is absurd on its face. Even supposing Comey's later revelation that Trump was putting pressure on him to end the Flynn investigation, this does not rise to the level of obstruction of justice. Everyone knows this. The media know this. They are reporting the story anyhow. Bias?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    If, he would acknowledge the seriousness of the Russian affair, cooporate to shed light, and just concentrate on actually getting his agenda moving forward, he would have better press.
    I agree with you here. Especially your last sentence. I agree that Trump does add to his own bad press. However, I think the problem is exacerbated by the media, itself, and their own bias and desire to have influence. If you told me negative press went from 50% during Obama to 60-65% for the current admin, I'd get it. I'd be much more in the Trump simply needs to do a better job getting his message out camp. But 80-90% negative press.... That's practically wall to wall bad press when, as you have acknowledged, nothing catastrophic has occurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Plus, his advisor Steeve Bannon encourages him to attach the Press... It's an open war, so obviously you will get bad coverage.

    No, things are not normal... way far from normal, but these unnormal things just aren't the kind that affect peoples lives directly or in a catastrophic way.
    What is so abnormal then? You seem to acknowledge that, in general, for most people, Trump has not impacted their lives one way or another. Nothing catastrophic has occurred. That's the whole crux of the issue. We have a presidency being undermined by the press based on false accusations and misrepresentations. I watched the news last night on CNN, Fox, and MSNBC. Fox spent most of its time on two stories. The kid who was released from S. Korea and yesterday's shooting of a Congressman. CNN spent most of the time discussing Trump and Russia. MSNBC spent its time talking about Trump and Russia plus I saw a story on Flint, MI as manslaughter charges have been filed. Anderson Cooper did do an interview with someone from the Congressional baseball game although neither he nor the network seemed to specifically report on the shooting itself (old news by that point I guess...). We can all agree Fox is probably a little too friendly to Trump, but I think it is equally fair to claim that just about everyone else is over-the-top in their effort to report negatively on Trump. I mean, the N. Korea story actually paints Trump and his admin in a positive light. However, I didn't see any mention of it on CNN or MSNBC. So, for viewers of those channels, you can see where their picture of Trump's admin would be completely negative and there is simply no reason for them to have not reported that story other than they just recoil from reporting any semi-good news when Trump is involved.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  16. #34
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    1. Your quote about collusion is someone's opinion to be sure, but it is clearly bogus when it claims that collusion is undisputed. You have nothing here. None of that amounts to collusion. Nothing Comey has said about possible collusion was damning. He did clearly state that Trump, himself, isn't under investigation. Again, there is simply no evidence to support such a conclusion at this time. Maybe in the future your wet dream will be fulfilled. I don't know.
    Maybe he wasn't under investigation, his campaign was and is and he is now. I'll accept your clarification "at this time" and "I don't know" which, however, tears apart your conclusion about media bias since the continuing investigation and revelations is why it makes it newsworthy.

    So, yes, he has a lot of negative press but that that is due to media bias is as of yet unsupported.
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    What is a reliable metric? (...) I think it is a useful metric.
    It's not a useful metric because something catastrophic happening in the first 100 days of a presidency (the time frame of the study you cite as evidence) is not fair to pin on the new administration. It would be justto pin it largely on the previous one. Also, there is no predictable correlation between sentiment towards the Presidency and catastrophic events. Rather, it is the Presidency reaction to the catastrophic event which is key. For support, I point to the two most important catastrophies to hit our generations: the financial crisis of 2008 and 9/11. Neither of them provided bad press coverage for either Obama or Bush. In fact, in the case of Bush, it was the contrary for many months... both press coverage and his popularity was sky high. It's not a reliable metric... put it to rest.

    Per Comey, Trump isn't under investigation. So, we shouldn't expect any conclusions on the matter, should we?
    The President, mostly through is tweeting, has successfully made this about him... in other words, the meme he is pushing (and that you seem to adopt): "there is nothing implicating TRUMP, then there is nothing to look and let's move on." The reality is that the various investiguations right now are not targeting Trump but his campaign... and getting to the bottom of understanding what happened. Again, the negative coverage is not about him being personnally involved (I don't think he's competant to pull it off) but rather how he handles himself throughout the crisis.

    Even in your defense of the media you throw out another misguided media trope regarding possible obstruction of justice.
    A wonderful way to measure how well you do with arguments is to see how well they measure the test of time... well, this one above is already wrong just a day old... it's not a media trope, it's a real thing now being investiguated.

    What is so abnormal then?
    I'll draw from the conclusions of the study you put forward to highlight what's abnormal.

    1- The early days of his presidency have been marked by far more missteps and miss-hits, often self-inflicted, than any presidency in memory, perhaps ever.
    2- What’s truly atypical about Trump’s coverage is that it’s sharply negative despite the fact that he’s the source of nearly two-thirds of the sound bites surrounding his coverage. Typically, newsmakers and groups complain that their media narrative is negative because they’re not given a chance to speak for themselves.
    3- So why is Trump’s coverage so negative even though he does most of the talking? The fact is, he’s been on the defensive during most of his 100 days in office, trying to put the best face possible on executive orders, legislative initiatives, appointments, and other undertakings that have gone bad. Even Fox has not been able to save him from what analyst David Gergen called the “’worst 100 days we’ve ever seen.”
    4- As he tweeted a month after taking office, “The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!”That tweet made headlines, as have many of Trump’s attacks on the press. It’s understandable why journalists would report and respond to such attacks,
    5- Never in the nation’s history has the country had a president with so little fidelity to the facts, so little appreciation for the dignity of the presidential office, and so little understanding of the underpinnings of democracy. The media’s credibility today is at low ebb, but the Trump presidency is not the time for the press to pull back. The news media gave Trump a boost when he entered presidential politics. But a head-on collision at some point was inevitable. It’s happened, it isn’t pretty, and it isn’t over.




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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by from CowboyX
    Looks like they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing and Trump has no one to blame (although he continually tries) but himself. He thought, mistakenly, that he was going to run things like a business where there's so little pushback from your yes-men. Not so in government and especially not with an independent 4th estate. His own statement to the effect that it is harder than he thought it would be proves what a fool you voted for.
    Mark Levin has it right. There is a sinister plot underway by the liberal leftist Democrats to turn your country into a socialist state (the tyranny of Progressivism).

    Socialist states have a habit of oppressing their people. Careful what you wish for.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCW4m_VN3O0
    Minute 9:05-11:00

    Thank goodness for Trump! I hope he succeeds for the sake of your country. As an outsider looking in I think your country is close to the no return point.

    Peter

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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    It's not a useful metric because something catastrophic happening in the first 100 days of a presidency (the time frame of the study you cite as evidence) is not fair to pin on the new administration. It would be justto pin it largely on the previous one. Also, there is no predictable correlation between sentiment towards the Presidency and catastrophic events. Rather, it is the Presidency reaction to the catastrophic event which is key. For support, I point to the two most important catastrophies to hit our generations: the financial crisis of 2008 and 9/11. Neither of them provided bad press coverage for either Obama or Bush. In fact, in the case of Bush, it was the contrary for many months... both press coverage and his popularity was sky high. It's not a reliable metric... put it to rest.
    You are incorrect. A crisis may hit a President's popularity as it did, in fact, negatively impact Bush.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/110806/bu...ew-low-27.aspx
    "Decline of 4 points since financial crisis intensified"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    The President, mostly through is tweeting, has successfully made this about him... in other words, the meme he is pushing (and that you seem to adopt): "there is nothing implicating TRUMP, then there is nothing to look and let's move on." The reality is that the various investiguations right now are not targeting Trump but his campaign... and getting to the bottom of understanding what happened. Again, the negative coverage is not about him being personnally involved (I don't think he's competant to pull it off) but rather how he handles himself throughout the crisis.



    A wonderful way to measure how well you do with arguments is to see how well they measure the test of time... well, this one above is already wrong just a day old... it's not a media trope, it's a real thing now being investiguated.
    Not a media trope? You sure?
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sXDt8qYvgHQI6A

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...p-russia-story

    "CNN on Monday accepted the resignations of three journalists involved in a story about a supposed investigation into a pre-inaugural meeting between an associate of Donald Trump and the head of a Russian investment fund."

    CNN producer also caught on tape explaining that the Trump-Russia stuff was bs and Van Jones called it a "nothing burger". But, sure, go on and tell us all how it is not some media trope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post

    I'll draw from the conclusions of the study you put forward to highlight what's abnormal.

    1- The early days of his presidency have been marked by far more missteps and miss-hits, often self-inflicted, than any presidency in memory, perhaps ever.
    2- What’s truly atypical about Trump’s coverage is that it’s sharply negative despite the fact that he’s the source of nearly two-thirds of the sound bites surrounding his coverage. Typically, newsmakers and groups complain that their media narrative is negative because they’re not given a chance to speak for themselves.
    3- So why is Trump’s coverage so negative even though he does most of the talking? The fact is, he’s been on the defensive during most of his 100 days in office, trying to put the best face possible on executive orders, legislative initiatives, appointments, and other undertakings that have gone bad. Even Fox has not been able to save him from what analyst David Gergen called the “’worst 100 days we’ve ever seen.”
    4- As he tweeted a month after taking office, “The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!”That tweet made headlines, as have many of Trump’s attacks on the press. It’s understandable why journalists would report and respond to such attacks,
    5- Never in the nation’s history has the country had a president with so little fidelity to the facts, so little appreciation for the dignity of the presidential office, and so little understanding of the underpinnings of democracy. The media’s credibility today is at low ebb, but the Trump presidency is not the time for the press to pull back. The news media gave Trump a boost when he entered presidential politics. But a head-on collision at some point was inevitable. It’s happened, it isn’t pretty, and it isn’t over.




    But I've never said Trump's presidency is normal. This is a red herring.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    But, sure, go on and tell us all how it is not some media trope.
    "In conversations with members of his circle and with others he tried to recruit to help him, the GOP operative, Peter W. Smith, implied he was working with retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, at the time a senior adviser to then-candidate Donald Trump.

    “He said, ‘I’m talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?’” said Eric York, a computer-security expert from Atlanta who searched hacker forums on Mr. Smith’s behalf for people who might have access to the emails.

    Emails written by Mr. Smith and one of his associates show that his small group considered Mr. Flynn and his consulting company, Flynn Intel Group, to be allies in their quest."
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    You are incorrect. A crisis may hit a President's popularity as it did, in fact, negatively impact Bush.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/110806/bu...ew-low-27.aspx
    "Decline of 4 points since financial crisis intensified"


    It may, or, it may not. This is why it's not a reliable metric. End of story.
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    Re: Mind trapped by - Trump vs Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    But I've never said Trump's presidency is normal. This is a red herring.
    The "Russia thing" is not a media trope. It's being investiguated by both Republican controlled Congress, Senate, and by the Justice Dept.

    The trope here, and the real red herring is Trump stating that he is not under investiguation himself and that therefore, there is nothing to see or comment on, or investiguate. Another trope is stating that MSN has been saying that Trump himself was investiguated... it never said that.

    Is the MSN is center-left? Yes, it has been for a while. So what, conservatives has their own media operation and they are quite happy to take refuge in and dumb themselves down in.

    Your argument is, that since everything is normal (no major event affecting peoples lives) the amount of negative coverage should not be as high. I pushed back that major negative events affecting peoples lives is not a reliable metric to predict one way or another how it would affect.

    However, having a very atypical and erratic Presidency can very well be a good predictor of how coverage be affected.

    It is not a red herring, it's the CAUSE for the negative coverage: the erratic, blistering tenure of Trump.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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