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  1. #61
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Because that is what the APA is doing to define a mental disorder. Read post #1.
    And I already explained how it's not hanging on only the legal definition, but also general ethical principles common to most societies. The fact that there's a point about someone able to give legal consent only indicates that the principle behind both is the same: someone younger than what our society determines is the age of consent is not able to give consent, and therefore someone who has sexual desires towards them is considered by our society to have a disorder. If our society determined a different age based on a change in our ethical principles, then the result would be that both the law and the definition would change. So again, it's not "hanging" on the law - it's a simple expression of what our society determines to be ethical conduct when considering a person's ability to consent to things at different ages.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Again, what if there is no act, and the pedophile does not believe he would cause distress or injury? Why should that person be categorized as having a mental disorder?
    Because having people walking around sexualising children is not something our society wants to happen. Again, just ask yourself: do you think it's good for a society to have individuals who sexualize children and have sexual desires towards children? Would you feel comfortable if you had a child and found out that someone around them is thinking about them sexually - even if you had the guarantee that they'd never act on that desire (which there isn't)?

    Further, the fact that the paedophile doesn't act is an admission that they at least understand that the society they are in doesn't see their desire as something acceptable, and also an understanding of why that is. This comports with the first bullet-point of the APA's definition. Further, their irrational disagreement with, or inability to understand the fact that acting on their desire would cause distress or injury is, to most people, enough to classify them as having a disorder.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Don't you think that psychiatric evaluations and classifications should be independent of what the law says?
    They are.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    The problem is that according to logic you agree with, the person didn't have a mental disorder while in the US, and then suddenly does at the conclusion of the flight. If that makes sense to you, then tell me why you're okay with that.
    Again, I'm not saying that "the person didn't have a mental disorder while in the US, and then suddenly does". I'm saying that the person is classified differently as having a mental disorder or not by different societies. The fact that the person is travelling doesn't matter, since they were already classified as having a disorder before entering the location which classified them as such. It's really simple: different places have different societies and, as a result, different views on how to classify people based on their proclivities. This is not a problem.

    Do you have an issue with different places having different laws on when a person is considered an adult? Now you're here, and you're an adult, but then you go there, and you're no longer an adult! Oh noes!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Okay, you got me there. Well done. So let's change it to a few beers before driving home. I want to go out with friends, have some drinks, and drive myself home. I really like the feeling of being inebriated, and the social fun that goes with it. I'm not an alcoholic, but I enjoy a good time. I'd drink enough to be over the legal limit and the law says I would be a danger to other people. I don't think I would be a danger to others because I drive real well under the influence of alcohol, but I decide not to go out because I don't want to get arrested. Does all that mean that I have a mental disorder? If yes, explain. If not, why not?
    Your desire to drink enough to feel good and still be able to drive according to you is probably not in the same category as what we're discussing here. For one, many people probably share your opinion, so already theres a big difference with regard to the first bullet-point. Also, I'd point out that, with your example, the desire itself is quite different, as there are varying degrees of desire. Something like wanting to have a good time in the specific way that you describe is definitely not on the same scale as the sexual desire a paedophile has towards children. What you describe is more in the range of opinion than an actual urge.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    The latter. I'm talking about someone who does NOT think it is a bad thing and doesn't think he would be causing harm, but chooses not to act.
    Again, choosing not to act is an admission of understanding that it's an issue if they were to act, and therefore also an understanding of the ethical reasons behind why it's an issue, regardless of whether they agree with the ethics.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Nope. Sounds like he's doing okay by keeping his actions within socially acceptable boundaries.
    Depending on the level of distress as described by the first bullet-point, he may not be doing that okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    A problem? Maybe. A mental disorder? No. We all really want to do things we just can't do because of the risks involved. I really want to drive 150mph, skydive and experience what its like to get away with a major jewel heist, but those are all pretty darn risky. Do any of those indicate a mental disorder? I don't think so.
    Again, varying degrees of desire. You say you have the desire to skydive. But is that really the same as a paedophile's desire to have sex with children? Do you think about it every time you see an airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I think it would be a lot more interesting to talk about the deeper societal/moral considerations in play when categorizing people as having mental disorders, like you mentioned earlier.
    I don't. Our society is pretty clear on what it considers acceptable, and our medical professionals appear to be doing their best to adhere to those ethical principles. This is why I see no issue with how they've defined paraphillic disorder, and your objections don't have sufficient justification for me to conclude that there is an issue.

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  3. #62
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Nicely done fb #61.

    As Art Schopenhauer said:
    - Man can do as he wills, but cannot determine what he wills. -

    It's akin to the refutory logic for the holier than thous that falsely claim homosexuality is a choice.
    The refutation? When did you (Mr. or Mrs. holier than thou) choose to be straight?

    We choose our actions. We don't choose our preferences.
    "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." Plato


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