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  1. #1
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    Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Definition of PEDOPHILIA
    :sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object; specifically :a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedophilia

    The American Psychiatric Association defines a paraphillic disorder as a condition in which people

    •feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;
    or
    •have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
    death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
    consent.

    The above means that a big group of people, pedophiles, are being categorized as having a mental disorder based on legal guidelines regarding the legal age of consent. If homosexual orientation is not a choice (but rather a normal aspect of human sexuality), and pedophilia is not a choice, shouldn't they be treated the same by the APA? Going further, why shouldn't necrophilia and zoophilia be recognized as simple variants of sexuality rather than as mental disorders? Legal restrictions shouldn't influence whether a certain sexual orientation is considered normal or a mental disorder.

    What am I missing?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  2. #2
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post

    [INDENT]•feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;
    I think you answered your own question
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  3. #3
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    If homosexual orientation is not a choice (but rather a normal aspect of human sexuality), and pedophilia is not a choice, shouldn't they be treated the same by the APA?
    No. Because whether something is a choice or not is irrelevant to whether it qualifies as a paraphilia.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Going further, why shouldn't necrophilia and zoophilia be recognized as simple variants of sexuality rather than as mental disorders?
    Because they fit the definition of a disorder.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Legal restrictions shouldn't influence whether a certain sexual orientation is considered normal or a mental disorder.
    Pedophilia, zoophilia and necrophilia are not sexual orientations. They are mental disorders. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and not a mental disorder.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    What am I missing?
    Apparently you are missing many major difference between homosexuality and certain paraphlias. You seem to be arguing from the position of ignorance as in using your lack of understanding regarding paraphilias and homosexuality as the basis of your argument about why we should treat them similarly.

  4. #4
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I think you answered your own question - "feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval"
    If you are saying that personal distress about their sexual orientation is always present with pedophiles, please support that claim.

    ---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    No. Because whether something is a choice or not is irrelevant to whether it qualifies as a paraphilia.
    hmm...I may come back to this later.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Because they fit the definition of a disorder.
    Explain - what specific definition do they fit?

    Pedophilia, zoophilia and necrophilia are not sexual orientations. They are mental disorders. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and not a mental disorder.
    The APA used to categorize homosexuality as a mental disorder. Changes in classification generally coincided with changes in public opinion.

    Again, explain why homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder while the others ARE.

    Apparently you are missing many major difference between homosexuality and certain paraphlias. You seem to be arguing from the position of ignorance as in using your lack of understanding regarding paraphilias and homosexuality as the basis of your argument about why we should treat them similarly.
    Well then edumacate me, Mican. Make everything crystal clear to poor ignorant me.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  5. #5
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Explain - what specific definition do they fit?
    The definition of a paraphilia. And since you posted that definition in your OP, you must know what it means.



    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    The APA used to categorize homosexuality as a mental disorder. Changes in classification generally coincided with changes in public opinion.
    As well as a better understanding of homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Again, explain why homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder while the others ARE.
    Because homosexuality does not fit the definition of a mental disorder and the others do fit the definition of a mental disorder.


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Well then edumacate me, Mican. Make everything crystal clear to poor ignorant me.
    I'm not saying that you yourself are at all ignorant. But your argument is. It argues as if there is no relevant difference which means that it's ignorant of any relevant difference. Since you provided a definition of paraphilia in the OP, I doubt you are personally ignorant of it.

  6. #6
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    The definition of a paraphilia. And since you posted that definition in your OP, you must know what it means.
    So explain how you are applying it. Don't just point to it. What part of the definition applies to pedophilia and makes it a mental disorder?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    So explain how you are applying it. Don't just point to it. What part of the definition applies to pedophilia and makes it a mental disorder?
    "have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
    death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
    consent."

  8. #8
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    "have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
    death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
    consent."
    What makes you think that pedophiles have a desire to cause distress, injury or death? Support this.

    Or are you saying that the second part about legal consent is what applies?

    Come on, Mican, you're not normally this reticent. Speak up and explain yourself.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  9. #9
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    What makes you think that pedophiles have a desire to cause distress, injury or death? Support this.
    The definition doesn't say that they have a desire to cause distress.

    And is it your argument that pedophilia is not a paraphilia? If so, support or retract this assertion. If not, then you have no need to challenge me what I say it's not. So yes or no, do you agree that pedophilia is a paraphilia?

  10. #10
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    The definition doesn't say that they have a desire to cause distress.

    And is it your argument that pedophilia is not a paraphilia? If so, support or retract this assertion. If not, then you have no need to challenge me what I say it's not. So yes or no, do you agree that pedophilia is a paraphilia?
    Again, The American Psychiatric Association defines a paraphillic disorder as a condition in which people

    •feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;
    or
    •have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
    death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
    consent.

    I see nothing there in the first half that necessarily applies to pedophiles. And the same for the first part of the second half. The final part should be stricken as it applies legal standards to psychological evaluations. So I see nothing that should classify pedophiles, as a group, as having a paraphillic disorder.

    If you disagree, then offer a rebuttal. So far, all you've done is write a little but say nothing.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  11. #11
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Again, The American Psychiatric Association defines a paraphillic disorder as a condition in which people

    •feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;
    or
    •have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or
    death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
    consent.

    I see nothing there in the first half that necessarily applies to pedophiles. And the same for the first part of the second half. The final part should be stricken as it applies legal standards to psychological evaluations. So I see nothing that should classify pedophiles, as a group, as having a paraphillic disorder.
    The second half says that they desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal
    consent.

    And pedophiles desire for sexual behaviors involving underage children.
    Underage children are persons who are unable to give legal consent.
    So pedophiles desire sexual behaviors involving persons unable to give legal consent.
    consent and therefore fit the second section.

  12. #12
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    And pedophiles desire for sexual behaviors involving underage children.
    Underage children are persons who are unable to give legal consent.
    So pedophiles desire sexual behaviors involving persons unable to give legal consent.
    consent and therefore fit the second section.
    Would you consider this to be a valid argument if it applied to homosexuality, and homosexual behavior was illegal?

    Paraphillic behavior includes sexual desires that violate the law.
    Homosexual desires involve sexual relations with others of the same gender.
    Sexual relations with the same gender is illegal.
    Therefore homosexual desires are paraphillic.

    Would that work for you? Hmmm?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  13. #13
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Would you consider this to be a valid argument if it applied to homosexuality, and homosexual behavior was illegal?

    Paraphillic behavior includes sexual desires that violate the law.
    Homosexual desires involve sexual relations with others of the same gender.
    Sexual relations with the same gender is illegal.
    Therefore homosexual desires are paraphillic.

    Would that work for you? Hmmm?
    Since I understand what legal consent means, it doesn't work for me. Do I need to explain what legal consent means?

  14. #14
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Since I understand what legal consent means, it doesn't work for me. Do I need to explain what legal consent means?
    Explain to me why it should apply to someone's thoughts, because a pedophile who never touches a kid is still classified as having a mental disorder.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Explain to me why it should apply to someone's thoughts, because a pedophile who never touches a kid is still classified as having a mental disorder.
    Because he still has a desire for such activity and the desire is what makes it a paraphilia.

  16. #16
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Because he still has a desire for such activity and the desire is what makes it a paraphilia.
    I'm asking why a legal issue of consent should be coupled with the thoughts of a pedophile to result in classification as paraphilia. My op says that it shouldn't.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I'm asking why a legal issue of consent should be coupled with the thoughts of a pedophile to result in classification as paraphilia. My op says that it shouldn't.
    Why not? Explain where you disagree with labeling pedophilia as a paraphilia. And saying you don't understand why it is labeled as such is not an argument against the label.

  18. #18
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Why not? Explain where you disagree with labeling pedophilia as a paraphilia. And saying you don't understand why it is labeled as such is not an argument against the label.
    I already did, Mican. Twice. If you have nothing else to contribute, then piss off.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I already did, Mican. If you have nothing else to contribute, then piss off.
    And I already responded to every objection you raised (where you actually said that the classification is faulty somehow) so I've contributed enough to defeat any argument that pedophila should not be considered a paraphilia. Until you raise another (and different) objection to the notion of the classification of pedophilia, then YOU have nothing else to contribute (unless you want to change the topic). So unless you got something new to contribute, you can piss off.

  20. #20
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    Re: Why is Pedophilia Categorized as a Disorder?

    In the op I wrote: "Legal restrictions shouldn't influence whether a certain sexual orientation is considered normal or a mental disorder." Restated, legal definitions and concepts, such as a legal age of consent, should not be involved in determining mental disorders, because they are social constructs which may vary from country to country, by state, or over time.

    You have not rebutted that position. When pressed, you evade and resort to asking me questions. So do you have a rebuttal? If so, write it.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

 

 
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