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  1. #1
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    Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Weíre only a year into probably one of the worst presidencies in history: a misogynistic, racist, largely ignorant buffoon that spends more time watching Fox News than boning up for his job. Heís a true product of what the Tea Party grass roots really craved.

    That said, the economy is up and other than embarrassing the country constantly he hasnít quite started a war yet. His insurance policy in the form of Pence still holds - an incompetent President prevented from doing anything is better than a competent one. The Russia probe is as much blackmail from the internal institutions of politics/spies/media as it is a actual Russian plot; and that keeps him in check: the real target probably isnít collusion, itís likely money laundering.

    Despite all the terrible things heís said, he really hasnít done anything terrible. His EOs are just as reversible when the democrats get back in power and any damage to the other departments also easily fixable when the time comes.

    So is his presidency really going to be bad? It may be mostly ineffective and humiliating but is there anything permanent or irreversible that heís doing? Personally, I havenít heard people discuss politics as much as when Trump is being challenged. His ignorance is corrected publicly and everyone is learning in real-time his government works, why the policies and programs we have in place are good (eg net neutrality) and we all get to argue again, all learning at the same time.

    So what do people think?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  2. #2
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    1) I think you should have eliminated "one of" from your first paragraph.

    2) I think the most important part of your observations were the words, "...he hasn’t quite started a war yet" in your second paragraph.

    3) I think the "learning experience" mentioned in your last paragraph is not worth the distinct possibility that he WILL cause a war to start.

    4) His unrelenting attacks on vital institutions will have impact way beyond his administration...and will be to the serious detriment of the Republic.

    This administration is an abomination. My hopes are that the Republic will survive it.

  3. #3
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    Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    1) I was being generous.
    2+3) I think the country is bigger than a single man. Heís not into war, isnít listening to the traditional war hawks and he has no appetite for the detail such an action would require. I think weíre good on that front.
    4) I think itís good theyíre being attacked - checks and balances and all that. Iím kinda sick of seeing CNN turn into FoxNews, spending way too much time on trivia. And if they canít defend themselves, then what good are they anyway? At least these attacks are public and easily deflected. And we all learn why these institutions are important in the first place. I donít see any substantive damage he has wrought.


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    Last edited by SharmaK; January 17th, 2018 at 07:45 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    We’re only a year into probably one of the worst presidencies in history: a misogynistic, racist, largely ignorant buffoon that spends more time watching Fox News than boning up for his job. He’s a true product of what the Tea Party grass roots really craved.
    You ask what others think? My chance to rant!

    Worst?

    I think that the negative narrative is driven by the agenda of a liberal leftist media (one of the gatekeepers of society). If you want to investigate who controls the gatekeepers of your society it is a pervasive socialist, elitist, big government, liberal, leftist, hateful, subjective, Democratic Party. Even though not in power they want to retain power and will do whatever is necessary to do so.

    Those who oppress others have realized how to exploit the media and use it as a propaganda tool to their favor, and that, in my opinion, and estimate, has been the weapon of the Democratic Party and Democratic ideology.

    Take a look at how socialist governments use other tools of education, media, the arts, music, the Internet, their citizens, their companies, to influence and change the opinions of the masses. Much of the time the masses are very unaware of what is happening.I see this in America too.

    If you want to promote a lie, tell it long enough and loud enough: as you say, a misogynistic, racist, largely ignorant buffoon. In my mind, it is not Trump displaying these qualities. These Democrats are displaying for public consumption every day how hateful and immoral they are. I watch Maxine Waters and Cory Booker and see the bias and hate oozing from them in their firery speeches and aims of impreachment. I have no respect for them, neither Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer. I see these people as wackos holding the government of the people and for the people hostage to achieve their ill-thoughout wills. I no longer watch CNN, NBC, or any of the other liberal main stream media outlets. All they have is negative coverage of this president and never speak of his accomplishments or what is important to the health and wealth of the American people, just Trump conspiracy theories every day, all day.

    I hope that in 2018 people will use their brains instead of their bias to vote for people in power who will get things accomplished instead of hinder them.
    Examine socialist governments throughout the world before you vote for one. See how the majority treats their people and squash their freedoms.

    What is the agenda of the Democratic left? It is power at all costs, and to hell with those who oppose them. What have they done to further the American people during this administration? Nothing. That is what I see unfolding. Trump was right to call them obstructionists.

    Even though I am not an American, I am thankful for Trump and his agenda. I believe that his administration is starting to uncover some of this deep-seated corruption in your country, as well as exposing it in others. We'll see if these statements ring true or not for time, more often that not in my experience, has a habit of exposing falsehood.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    That said, the economy is up and other than embarrassing the country constantly he hasn’t quite started a war yet. His insurance policy in the form of Pence still holds - an incompetent President prevented from doing anything is better than a competent one. The Russia probe is as much blackmail from the internal institutions of politics/spies/media as it is a actual Russian plot; and that keeps him in check: the real target probably isn’t collusion, it’s likely money laundering.

    Despite all the terrible things he’s said, he really hasn’t done anything terrible. His EOs are just as reversible when the Democrats get back in power and any damage to the other departments also easily fixable when the time comes.

    So is his presidency really going to be bad? It may be mostly ineffective and humiliating but is there anything permanent or irreversible that he’s doing? Personally, I haven’t heard people discuss politics as much as when Trump is being challenged. His ignorance is corrected publicly and everyone is learning in real-time his government works, why the policies and programs we have in place are good (eg net neutrality) and we all get to argue again, all learning at the same time.

    So what do people think?
    I don't think He embarrasses the country by speaking his mind and standing up for what is sound and good in many cases.
    Peace through strength rather than appeasement and giving loads of money to corrupt regimes whose idea it is to exploit their people, and not only their own people but much of the free world with their radical agendas.
    Bringing back jobs and encouraging investment and confidence in your country that has not been seen in years.
    Controlling who come in and out of your country because there are MANY radicals who want to harm Americans. Good fences make good neighbors.
    Exposing a double standard that has been present and growing so that the media will not write truth but an agenda, a narrative they stick to at the cost of impartiality.
    Exposing a double standard for liberal leftist institutes of higher learning that promotes liberal agendas and strangles any other viewpoint by rioting and civil disobedience rather than dialog.
    Opposing abortion mills and their funding that kills millions of unborn human beings every year so that women can eliminate responsibility and replace it with a liberal lifestyle and the choice to kill others.
    Exposing the corruption that is Washington and its previous administration; its spying on its people, its political conspiracies, its sexual immorality and slush funds, its cover-ups and far-reaching influence over the whole of America.

    The list is long, so I welcome the change. It is refreshing to see someone who is not PC and afraid to call a wrong wrong, even better, knows what a wrong is!

    Forgive me my rant. You gave me the chance to express my opinion.

    Peter

  5. #5
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    This tells you more about the real Donald Trump than any Internet rave:




    Isn't he a beauty?

    Yeah, SharmaK...the Trump presidency is that bad...mostly because it is the TRUMP presidency.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    This tells you more about the real Donald Trump than any Internet rave:




    Isn't he a beauty?

    Yeah, SharmaK...the Trump presidency is that bad...mostly because it is the TRUMP presidency.
    And the Acadamy goes to the mild-mannered Democratic Cory Booker:
    https://youtu.be/fCaasS4mSpE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCaasS4mSpE

    Peter

  7. #7
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    Despite all the terrible things heís said, he really hasnít done anything terrible.
    Trump has been perhaps a bit right of center on policies, and the Left thinks the election was stolen from Hillary, but the Left hates him for something even more offensive:

    Contrary to popular supposition, the Left loathes Trump not just for what he has done. (It is often too consumed with fury to calibrate carefully the particulars of the Trump agenda.) Rather, it despises him mostly for what he superficially represents. To many progressives and indeed elites of all persuasions, Trump is also the Prince of Anti-culture: mindlessly naÔve American boosterism; conspicuous, 1950s-style unapologetic consumption; repetitive and limited vocabulary; fast-food culinary tastes; Queens accent; herky-jerky mannerisms; ostentatious dress; bulging appearance; poorly disguised facial expressions; embracing rather than sneering at middle-class appetites; a lack of subtlety, nuance, and ambiguity.

    In short Trumpís very essence wars with everything that long ago was proven to be noble, just, and correct by Vanity Fair, NPR, The New Yorker, Google, the Upper West Side, and The Daily Show... http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...onsense-nobama
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  8. #8
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    Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by PGA2 View Post
    You ask what others think? My chance to rant!

    Worst?

    I think that the negative narrative is driven by the agenda of a liberal leftist media (one of the gatekeepers of society).
    Not always. I think the right wing media, FoxNews & Drudge are not huge fans of Trump either.


    Those who oppress others have realized how to exploit the media and use it as a propaganda tool to their favor, and that, in my opinion, and estimate, has been the weapon of the Democratic Party and Democratic ideology.
    Yet it was that same media that game Trump so much free publicity! Trump is a product of of media, if they ignored him then he would be a nobody. If anything, this is Trumpís genius.


    If you want to promote a lie, tell it long enough and loud enough: as you say, a misogynistic, racist, largely ignorant buffoon. In my mind, it is not Trump displaying these qualities.
    Eh. I have to disagree. He is all those qualities. The media overdo their coverage but theyíre not inventing what he says!


    What is the agenda of the Democratic left? It is power at all costs, and to hell with those who oppose them. What have they done to further the American people during this administration? Nothing. That is what I see unfolding. Trump was right to call them obstructionists.
    All parties are after power at all costs! Thatís kinda the point. And the Dems are no more obstructionist than the Reps were when Obama was in power.


    I believe that his administration is starting to uncover some of this deep-seated corruption in your country, as well as exposing it in others. We'll see if these statements ring true or not for time, more often that not in my experience, has a habit of exposing falsehood.
    That remains to be seen but we already see Trumpís own corruption and how he is gaining from his presidency!


    I don't think He embarrasses the country by speaking his mind and standing up for what is sound and good in many cases.
    He does have some good points but he spoils it by couching things in racist or ignorant terms which then make it hard to support. s-holes bring the latest.

    Peace through strength rather than appeasement and giving loads of money to corrupt regimes whose idea it is to exploit their people, and not only their own people but much of the free world with their radical agendas.
    But taking money from the UN and Pakistan are really not good ideas. We want world security not just an insular US-centric view.

    Bringing back jobs and encouraging investment and confidence in your country that has not been seen in years.
    Again, it remains to be seen what jobs he brings. I hope he can pull off a decent infrastructure plan but I doubt the Dems will give it to him.

    Controlling who come in and out of your country because there are MANY radicals who want to harm Americans.
    And those so-called radicals will find some way to get in anyway.


    Exposing a double standard for liberal leftist institutes of higher learning that promotes liberal agendas and strangles any other viewpoint by rioting and civil disobedience rather than dialog.
    Agreed. Not the finest hour from the left. The recent leftist actions are quite unpleasant.


    Forgive me my rant. You gave me the chance to express my opinion.

    Peter
    I donít think youíre entirely wrong. I share some of your observations and am concerned too.

    ---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    This tells you more about the real Donald Trump than any Internet rave:

    Isn't he a beauty?
    Actually, I loved that he did that. It was arrogant, powerful, ignorant, and rude - it was America First and Trump First. He asserted his superiority and his importance and the strength of America; he dissed people he should have known and showed the world that if they are beneath Trumpís notice, then theyíre not that important; which theyíre not.

    Yeah, SharmaK...the Trump presidency is that bad...mostly because it is the TRUMP presidency.
    I believe that he didnít so much win but Clinton lost. As always, Democrats fail to push a compelling message strongly enough; the fact that Bernie was cheated out of a win still rings strongly in some circles and the notion that she was a shoe-in likely kept a lot of voters at home.

    We have a Trump presidency because of Clinton and if itís bad, itís bad in all the ways that her campaign failed to put forward a compelling counter case. Everything that is happening was promised by Trump so I donít blame him for following through. I blame the American people for either being too lazy to vote or too ignorant to care about the threat of Trump.

    Luckily for us, he is incompetent and inartful and too proud to understand the real issues enough to do any harm. So really, his presidency is not that bad even though he is a terrible person.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

  9. #9
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    So, I have had the pleasure of not watching just about any "news" since the election. Really, really little the last few months.
    Everything seems fine. Obama put me personally out of work for about a year, with his shut down of the gulf during BP oil spill.
    So as far as nose to the grind stone view of the world, Trump has been great so far.

    As I did follow the news during the Bush Presidency, and I saw how biased the coverage was against him, it is no surprise that the media has settled into it's regularly scheduled "buffoon" script.
    Finally, I did get at least one thing I voted for (2 if you count not having Hillary as pres) and that is that he drives the Media nutz. I love the tweets I do hear about because .. I generally couldn't care less.

    I do agree with the "one man" notion of the op. Rome had actually crazy people in charge, and it managed to lasted a few generations, though it didn't make past those final years.. as ending things are want to end.
    To serve man.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    So, I have had the pleasure of not watching just about any "news" since the election. Really, really little the last few months.
    Everything seems fine. Obama put me personally out of work for about a year, with his shut down of the gulf during BP oil spill.
    So as far as nose to the grind stone view of the world, Trump has been great so far.

    As I did follow the news during the Bush Presidency, and I saw how biased the coverage was against him, it is no surprise that the media has settled into it's regularly scheduled "buffoon" script.
    Finally, I did get at least one thing I voted for (2 if you count not having Hillary as pres) and that is that he drives the Media nutz. I love the tweets I do hear about because .. I generally couldn't care less.

    I do agree with the "one man" notion of the op. Rome had actually crazy people in charge, and it managed to lasted a few generations, though it didn't make past those final years.. as ending things are want to end.
    The shutdown was due to the spill and the bad handling of it on top of a regular who was in cahoots with the Oil Companies to not properly preventing the spill in first and place and not able to properly handle it. All Obama did was to have a moratorium until things were figured out.

    Sorry you lost income but itís a little unfair to blame the person left to clean up somebody elseís mess.

    Youíre not missing much on skipping out news; I feel as terrible about the left wing mediaís incessant and excessive attacks on Trump as I did when Fox was attack Obama over nothing. But I suspect a lot of it is revenge and also to ensure that Trump doesnít succeed in his agenda, and also to set the scene for the mid terms and 2020.


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  12. #11
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Trump is a nut...

    Having said that, I really, really, didn't want Hillary/Bill back in the Whitehouse.

    I just don't see how anyone could vote for either of them......that election was a very sad day for politics in the USA, IMHO....

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  14. #12
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post

    Actually, I loved that he did that. It was arrogant, powerful, ignorant, and rude - it was America First and Trump First. He asserted his superiority and his importance and the strength of America; he dissed people he should have known and showed the world that if they are beneath Trump’s notice, then they’re not that important; which they’re not.

    You think that people like that Prime Minister are "not that important?"

    You made some decent, reasonable points in your post, SharmaK...positions and notions with which I am in agreement. But this paragraph I just quoted describes a position I find contemptible.

    This is what we have become, however. That is why I think the unfortunate silver lining is that we have become self-destructive at the same time. History suggests that all great nations are finally brought to the ground. Maybe our time is here.

  15. #13
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    You think that people like that Prime Minister are "not that important?"
    You mean the president whose name you didnít know or couldnít be bothered to find out. Neither could I. And thatís kinda my point - he appears to be accurately reflecting America: for good or bad, he represents us.

    You made some decent, reasonable points in your post, SharmaK...positions and notions with which I am in agreement. But this paragraph I just quoted describes a position I find contemptible.
    Iím no fan of Trumps but the real problem with modern ďpoliticsĒ is really words like contemptible. Is is really awful to see America brag now and then? Back in my day, thatís what America did; itís army was vast and forceful, itís leaders demanding and loud, itís tourists brash and also loud. Trump is a summary of that. Itís not contemptible to hold opinions that are not contemptible!

    This is what we have become, however. That is why I think the unfortunate silver lining is that we have become self-destructive at the same time. History suggests that all great nations are finally brought to the ground. Maybe our time is here.
    Meh. I wouldnít over exaggerate Trumpís effect too much yet. However, I am fearful of what heís going to do with SCOTUS and trusting that his liberal New York values will prevent him from doing what his insurance policy, Pence, might end up doing if he were impeached.

  16. #14
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    You mean the president whose name you didn’t know or couldn’t be bothered to find out. Neither could I.
    He is not a president...he is a Prime Minister...and his name is Dusko Markovic. His nation is Montenegro.

    It was reprehensible for Trump to push him aside as he did.





    Meh. I wouldn’t over exaggerate Trump’s effect too much yet. However, I am fearful of what he’s going to do with SCOTUS and trusting that his liberal New York values will prevent him from doing what his insurance policy, Pence, might end up doing if he were impeached.
    Mike Pence is his best insurance policy.

  17. #15
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Sorry this reads as a bit of a stream of conciousness.

    One of the largest issues I think revolving around the Trump presidency has been the "teaming" effect. I didn't vote for Mr. Trump during the primaries or election. I think he is crass, unsophisticated, inarticulate, shallow, etc. A lot of what he advocates for (to the extent he is consistent on anything) is bad policy (tariffs for example).

    But what bothers me the most is the predilection of both sides to form absolutist teams about him. His supporters are Olympic level mental athletes at times wrapping themselves into knots to defend clearly bad policy or radical shifts in policy. His opponents often go after the middling ground or even good policy (or madeningly go after bad policy for the wrong reasons) and polarize us in the other direction.

    Trump's internal administration has been a disaster. His inability to lead his party on policies he wants is embarrassing and causes a lot of harm. The focus on a wall is bizarre and simplistic. His suicide by tweet tendency is crazy. While the destruction of Isis was praiseworthy (though not his alone) as was his response to WMD use in Syria, his fumbling of the Syrian/Iranian/Russian axis has been inexusable.

    Overall I find that he is a pretty terrible executive and a rather bad president. But that said, I find myself defending him more often than not because the criticisms levelled at him often are about things that aren't that terrible or, more often, the criticism is overplayed.

    Take a look at the "sh*thole" comments from last week. The comment was dumb for a whole host of reasons. A) not presidential b) unnecessarily offensive c) ridiculously amateurish (who in his right mind trusts Durbin?). The response though has turned this from a clear blow to a small win. Last week I found that most of my pro-trump friends were quiet or even exasperated with Trump. Fast forward a couple of days and they are pushing back (Haiti isn't exactly a great place to live). Arguing that he shouldn't be offensive is a win. Arguing that the countries listed are great, and fantastic strikes most as disengenous.


    I think criticism of Trump would go a long way if it weren't so hyperbolic and if we could acknowledge areas that seem to be positive (even if they are positive out of sheer luck).

    His handling of Mr. Nieto, ridiculously bad and unsophisticated. His pushback on DACA initially (that it needs to be Congress not the Executive), pretty justified.

    Initial immigration ban (run primarily by Mr. Bannon), was poorly thought out, socialized, and executed. His handling of North Korea has (I really think accidentally) been pretty solid (his brash style fits Korean diplomacy much better). [It would fit Iranian diplomacy even better, but he is too short sighted to know that.]

    More controversially, his reduction in regulatory complexity and burden has been an economic positive and is being positively talked about in quite a few trade journals. And though it plays well to some of his base, his kneecapping of Sec. Tillerson has been unproductive (even to his own agenda) and smacks more of ego than strategy.


    As for long term damage, I think that is a relatively mixed bag mostly. He will have some positive effects in structure and strategic shift to the Pacific, and some negative effects in trade and the Middle East. The biggest single effect though isn't his alone, imo. It is the change in attitudes and the increasing in polarization that has come from the style of his run and the hyperbolic reaction of some of the Left to his Presidency. That kind of polarization doesn't go away quick or easily and tends to end in negative feedback loops.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.Ē -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


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    Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    He is not a president...he is a Prime Minister...and his name is Dusko Markovic. His nation is Montenegro.
    I wasnít asking for you to find out who he was. I was suggesting that since you didnít do so originally proves the point that heís a nobody leader from a nothing country. Iíll never remember his name nor the country but Iíll always remember when Trump pushed some guy away to get in front of the camera.

    It was reprehensible for Trump to push him aside as he did.
    Trump took the opportunity to show the world who he was and he set the tone for his presidency. It would be masterful if it were not the nagging feeling is that he wasnít doing it strategically but that he was just being an ass.
    Last edited by SharmaK; January 18th, 2018 at 12:30 PM.

  20. #17
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    I wasn’t asking for you to find out who he was. I was suggesting that since you didn’t do so originally proves the point that he’s a nobody leader from a nothing country. I’ll never remember his name nor the country but I’ll always remember when Trump pushed some guy away to get in front of the camera.
    I knew that information when I wrote the original post. It is a matter than I have raised in other fora. If you want to think of someone as a "nobody leader" and any country as a "nothing country"...fine by me. That inappropriate scorn and contempt sounds like something Donald Trump would say.

    Trump took the opportunity to show the world who he was and he set the tone for his presidency. It would be masterful if it were not the nagging feeling is that he wasn’t doing it strategically but that he was just being an ass.
    He certainly set the tone for this disgusting presidency...I'll agree with you on that.

    If I had to bet on this...I would bet that he was just being an ass. That "I am a big deal" look that he put on his face is actually laughable. I took a picture of him several years ago. He had that same contemptuous look on his face.

    He's farce.

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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    Weíre only a year into probably one of the worst presidencies in history: a misogynistic, racist, largely ignorant buffoon that spends more time watching Fox News than boning up for his job. Heís a true product of what the Tea Party grass roots really craved.

    That said, the economy is up and other than embarrassing the country constantly he hasnít quite started a war yet. His insurance policy in the form of Pence still holds - an incompetent President prevented from doing anything is better than a competent one. The Russia probe is as much blackmail from the internal institutions of politics/spies/media as it is a actual Russian plot; and that keeps him in check: the real target probably isnít collusion, itís likely money laundering.

    Despite all the terrible things heís said, he really hasnít done anything terrible. His EOs are just as reversible when the democrats get back in power and any damage to the other departments also easily fixable when the time comes.

    So is his presidency really going to be bad? It may be mostly ineffective and humiliating but is there anything permanent or irreversible that heís doing? Personally, I havenít heard people discuss politics as much as when Trump is being challenged. His ignorance is corrected publicly and everyone is learning in real-time his government works, why the policies and programs we have in place are good (eg net neutrality) and we all get to argue again, all learning at the same time.

    So what do people think?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Here is what I find absolutely hilarious. You claim Trump is one of the worst presidents in history (reading above you clearly think he was the worst). However, your entire commentary is about his personality and your opinion. Nothing about his actual policies. Beyond that, one year.... you are attempting judge Trump's presidency after a single year. Harding was really popular when he left office. Yet, historically, after having time to reflect and after certain things about his presidency were exposed; most historians consider him the worst president of all time.

    On top of that, the single Trump policy you use as an example (i.e. Net Neutrality) is subjectively good and in line with what he promised. So, for people who voted for him (or who didn't vote for Hillary), they may disagree with you. Your assessment that his policy view belies a certain ignorance, is itself, a bit ignorant. Do you call everyone with whom you disagree ignorant? On balance, his Presidency has yielded some very good results for a lot of people. I will not attempt to try to look into the future and guess how his presidency will be judged in 20 years. That is pure folly.

    Let's also take some of the hysteria about his behavior with a grain of salt. I want to use the shithole episode as an example as it really exposes a few things at play. In a closed door meeting (i.e. there was no press) to negotiate a deal pertaining to DACA and immigration, Trump apparently called some countries shitholes and questioned why we accept so many immigrants from those places. I'm not going to defend his comments. I am disinterested. However, we only know about this because Dick Durbin ran out of the meeting yelling and waving his hands to get this out. The media reports it and then opines on it. Of course, the media and Democrats rush to tell us how Trump's comments damaged American prestige and some even went so far as to claim Trump harmed national security with his words. However, Trump wasn't the person who made his words public. He said what he said behind closed doors. Haiti and Africa never had to know he said it. However, Durbin needed to get the story out there. He was willing, apparently, to place national interests second to personal politics. Really, wasn't it Durbin who harmed America? Now, we can debate this, but has a single media outlet posed the question? Has a single reporter asked Durbin; Hey, if you knew his words were so damaging to America's national interests, why did you make sure to leak them to the entire world? My point here is that I think there is a lack of proportionality. Trump says dumb things that get way over-reported and he outputs policy (often important policy) which gets way under-reported. So, the idea, living in the moment, that we can objectively assess his Presidency, and assess it after a single year is, in itself, an exercise in partisanship.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

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  23. #19
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Here is what I find absolutely hilarious. You claim Trump is one of the worst presidents in history (reading above you clearly think he was the worst). However, your entire commentary is about his personality and your opinion. Nothing about his actual policies. Beyond that, one year.... you are attempting judge Trump's presidency after a single year. Harding was really popular when he left office. Yet, historically, after having time to reflect and after certain things about his presidency were exposed; most historians consider him the worst president of all time.
    I was judging him since he started campaigning and he has done little to change the fact he is unsuited. As far as being worst person to hold the position, I believe he is the absolute worst. As far as his role, youíre right, time will tell and thatís my point: he may end up being able to do so little that other presidencies may have a much worse effect on the country.


    On top of that, the single Trump policy you use as an example (i.e. Net Neutrality) is subjectively good and in line with what he promised. So, for people who voted for him (or who didn't vote for Hillary), they may disagree with you. Your assessment that his policy view belies a certain ignorance, is itself, a bit ignorant. Do you call everyone with whom you disagree ignorant? On balance, his Presidency has yielded some very good results for a lot of people. I will not attempt to try to look into the future and guess how his presidency will be judged in 20 years. That is pure folly.
    We should probably argue whether NN is good or bad but elsewhere but I see it as bad. And the fact he is implementing his campaign promises, which were bad anyway, just adds to his bad presidency.


    Let's also take some of the hysteria about his behavior with a grain of salt. I want to use the shithole episode as an example as it really exposes a few things at play. In a closed door meeting (i.e. there was no press) to negotiate a deal pertaining to DACA and immigration, Trump apparently called some countries shitholes and questioned why we accept so many immigrants from those places. I'm not going to defend his comments. I am disinterested. However, we only know about this because Dick Durbin ran out of the meeting yelling and waving his hands to get this out. The media reports it and then opines on it. Of course, the media and Democrats rush to tell us how Trump's comments damaged American prestige and some even went so far as to claim Trump harmed national security with his words. However, Trump wasn't the person who made his words public. He said what he said behind closed doors. Haiti and Africa never had to know he said it. However, Durbin needed to get the story out there. He was willing, apparently, to place national interests second to personal politics. Really, wasn't it Durbin who harmed America? Now, we can debate this, but has a single media outlet posed the question? Has a single reporter asked Durbin; Hey, if you knew his words were so damaging to America's national interests, why did you make sure to leak them to the entire world? My point here is that I think there is a lack of proportionality. Trump says dumb things that get way over-reported and he outputs policy (often important policy) which gets way under-reported. So, the idea, living in the moment, that we can objectively assess his Presidency, and assess it after a single year is, in itself, an exercise in partisanship.
    I donít think Trump said a dumb thing though. He made a racist statement that wasnít supported by facts - his claim was that Haiti and African immigrants wouldnít have passed his merit-based immigration rules; and that Norway would.

    Durbin may not even be the only source but he is certainly the one shouting out Trumpís racism. That should be known by Americans and the world. Trump relies and depends on Twitter, an open, unmoderated, free platform to explain himself. Durbin is just following the protocol set by Trump himself: live by public opinion and die by it.

    That the media have spent way too much time on the matter is neither here nor there: if you donít like it, donít consume it.

  24. #20
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by SHARMAK
    The shutdown was due to the spill and the bad handling of it on top of a regular who was in cahoots with the Oil Companies to not properly preventing the spill in first and place and not able to properly handle it. All Obama did was to have a moratorium until things were figured out.
    The oil spill did not make the moratorium, Obama did, and it is that action that put people out of work.
    So, I am blaming him for HOW he cleaned it up, and the fact that it put people (specifically me) out of work unnecessarily.
    The problem did not require a shut down in order to fix it, he chose to go that route, so he get the blaim. rightly so. (On the flip side if it could be shown that his decision prevented some other disaster, then hew would also get the credit). It is wrong to blaime BP for every gov response to the accident. (P.S. BP is pretty much spectacular hard asses about safty)

    That aside, I simply have never had a presidential order put me out of work personally. So, as much as it is a personal and specific opinion, it is the most direct effect any president has ever had on me, and it was negative.
    Sooo.. for better or worse of the nation obama was the worst president for me personally, where as Trump for all the media bluster against him, has had just about zero impact on me personally so far (revise after my taxes come in).

    Quote Originally Posted by SHARMAK
    You’re not missing much on skipping out news; I feel as terrible about the left wing media’s incessant and excessive attacks on Trump as I did when Fox was attack Obama over nothing. But I suspect a lot of it is revenge and also to ensure that Trump doesn’t succeed in his agenda, and also to set the scene for the mid terms and 2020.
    Sounds about right to me.
    To serve man.

 

 
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