The last of the pre-thesis questions

[Frank Apisa]

Thanks to everyone who has stuck with me in this thought process so far. I really appreciate getting pre-thesis ideas about how you feel in the areas I've asked for comments before actually presenting the thesis itself.

Here's the last one...

All things considered...does it make sense for a society to attempt to maximize productivity?

I realize that "all things considered" can bring some heavy thoughts to considerations of this question, so by all means, bring as much out as you can when you offer your response.

Since I have not offered you folk a first response yet...l'll do it here.

My response to this is YES...an unqualified YES.

[MindTrap028]

All things considered...does it make sense for a society to attempt to maximize productivity?

My answer is no.
Considering the answer to the very first questions are mostly "yes we are already producing enough". If we assume (and I'm not willing to accept this yet) that there is a great amount of productivity left to be had, then it would mostly be contributing to waste, and environmental damage.
further if we consider that the point of most peoples productivity, is so that they can stop being productive and start enjoying their production. IE, we don't just farm, we eat. We don't just work we take vacations. The later is not so we can keep working, the former is so we can keep eating and vacationing.

My point is that if our aim is to maximize productivity, then we would be aiming at the wrong thing.

[Frank Apisa]

My answer is no.
Considering the answer to the very first questions are mostly "yes we are already producing enough". If we assume (and I'm not willing to accept this yet) that there is a great amount of productivity left to be had, then it would mostly be contributing to waste, and environmental damage.
further if we consider that the point of most peoples productivity, is so that they can stop being productive and start enjoying their production. IE, we don't just farm, we eat. We don't just work we take vacations. The later is not so we can keep working, the former is so we can keep eating and vacationing.

My point is that if our aim is to maximize productivity, then we would be aiming at the wrong thing.

Okay...you are a vote that, as a society, we ought not to be aiming at maximum productivity.

Thanks.

[Frank Apisa]

I suspect, by the way, that our thoughts or definition of "productivity" is a bit different.

There are all sorts of definitions...but I like street defining...and I suspect mine is a bit like, "getting the best bang for one's buck."

Should we, as a society, be aiming at getting as much "out" as possible for what we put "in?"

[MindTrap028]

I suspect, by the way, that our thoughts or definition of "productivity" is a bit different.

There are all sorts of definitions...but I like street defining...and I suspect mine is a bit like, "getting the best bang for one's buck."

Should we, as a society, be aiming at getting as much "out" as possible for what we put "in?"

That sounds more like efficiency. Maximum production is about how much you put out specifically the top amount.
efficiency is about how much you get in relation to how much you put in.

[Frank Apisa]

That sounds more like efficiency. Maximum production is about how much you put out specifically the top amount.
efficiency is about how much you get in relation to how much you put in.

Productivity, generally speaking, is a measure relating a quantity or quality of output to the quantity of inputs required to produce it. In economics, "productivity" without specific context usually means labor productivity, which is can be measured by the quantity of output per time spent or number of workers employed. (In macroeconomics, labor productivity or simply "productivity" is represented by Y/L.)

https://www.thoughtco.com/definition...nomics-1147082

[Squatch347]

All things considered...does it make sense for a society to attempt to maximize productivity?

If we are operating on the generally accepted definition of productivity (unit output per unit input), the answer to this question is no.

If we broaden that definition a bit to say maximum value output per unit input, then I think the answer might be yes. The hard part is knowing everything's marginal value, and then transmitting that information across the economy.

[Frank Apisa]

If we are operating on the generally accepted definition of productivity (unit output per unit input), the answer to this question is no.

Interesting take, Squatch. So you are saying society ought NOT to be striving to get as much output as possible from what we put into the effort.

Would you expand on your reasoning, please. I am, as I indicated, 180 out of phase with your take.

If we broaden that definition a bit to say maximum value output per unit input, then I think the answer might be yes.

Might be???

Okay...if you can include your reasoning for that in the "expansion"...I'd truly appreciate it.

The hard part is knowing everything's marginal value, and then transmitting that information across the economy.

Interesting topic for another discussion at some point.

Here I am essentially asking...should we as a society be attempting to get as much as possible from the effort we put into production.

I'd just like to understand why you think we shouldn't.

[Squatch347]

Interesting take, Squatch. So you are saying society ought NOT to be striving to get as much output as possible from what we put into the effort.

Not exactly. I'm saying that productivity is not the end goal of economic activity. Productive, efficient uses of goods and services we want is the appropriate metric. I prefer the harder to measure, but more meaningful measure of utility maximization. That includes both efficiency and productivity concerns along with the question "what do we produce?"

And, I should also note that this is a bit a Utilitarian approach, so we need to be cautious and apply the same restraints and understandings we would for any Utilitarian ethic.

[Frank Apisa]

Not exactly. I'm saying that productivity is not the end goal of economic activity. Productive, efficient uses of goods and services we want is the appropriate metric. I prefer the harder to measure, but more meaningful measure of utility maximization. That includes both efficiency and productivity concerns along with the question "what do we produce?"

And, I should also note that this is a bit a Utilitarian approach, so we need to be cautious and apply the same restraints and understandings we would for any Utilitarian ethic.

Great topics for discussion, Squatch. You ought really to start threads on them.

But for here, in this thread...

...how about:"All things considered...does it make sense for a society to attempt to maximize productivity?"

[Squatch347]

...how about:"All things considered...does it make sense for a society to attempt to maximize productivity?"

Again, I think it depends on lot on what we are maximizing productivity on, and by what measure. We can be super productive digging and filling in holes, I don't see any reason that that is a good thing.

Likewise, we can be really productive in our use of copper by replacing it with gold, ignoring higher value uses.


How about; "For all goods and services voluntarily produced in a society, we should strive to exist on the efficient frontier."