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  1. #81
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Omnibus ask anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    This strikes me as a question of change vs continuity, tradition vs innovation. For me, that is the root of conservatism vs liberalism (in the very base sense of the words). Yet what strikes me, is you seem to be saying that the conservative viewpoint is the one endorsing change and evolution of new standards. To me, that is a very liberal perspective, to embrase developing and changing standards from the bottom up, rather than to preserve traditional standards and impose them from the top down. (But as I noted before, you are not a traditional conservitive in my expereince and that's what makes this dialog very interesting to me.)
    I'm more noting that the family is the proper structure to initiate change, and that it is a change that can't be stopped.
    I mean, look at the transition the family has gone through because of the sexual revolution (and the enabling of the state). We now have what I would consider "borken" families with mass single motherhood.
    I think that is a bad change, and as the name "broken family" implies, I think it isn't right. However the state really has not place in stopping it, even though it has some hand in enabling it to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    How would you synergize your view of authoritin and continuity of government vs the authority and continuity of religious teaching? Is it simply that the agent of authority is more trusted in religion (being God) rather than the structure (Authoritarian and unchanging)?
    Maybe I'm not understanding the question properly. For me, God defines and creats the family, families should define the gov, and the gov should be limited to specific and certain things.
    I am not sure if that answers your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    Is this some kind of principle? That a later institution cannot comment on or modify the institution that spawned it? I don't understand why this is necessarily true.
    It is more of an observation. That the family doesn't need the gov to define it. That is not to say that the gov can't influence the family structure or anything like that.
    I think I have argued that it does, has, and is generally bad. From my christian perspective, that is because that inherently separate identity of the family is defined by God apart from the state.
    However it seems to be a religiously neutral observation that the family doesn't need the state to define it in order for it to have meaning.

    There may be a principle in there that we can apply... just not sure what it is.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  2. #82
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location, Location
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    Re: Mind Trapped By: Omnibus ask anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    ...does the presupposition that God does or doesn't exist effect how we start to have conversations to begin with?
    I doubt it. If anything, my guess would be that most conversations start off being theistically neutral, unless the conversation touches on theism in an important way. I suspect most conversations in general start off with a neutral stance on such things; they simply aren't a factor.

    For example, if a conversation about buying a house comes up, I don't have any good reason to think that my own or my conversational partner's position on extraterrestrial life has any relevance. In order for bias to play a role in the conversation, there would have to be some relevance to the conversation.


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