Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Results 1 to 20 of 107

Threaded View

  1. #33
    Banned Indefinitely

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Cliff: a thought experiment on abortion

    I'm going to address your replies in terms of the cliff metaphor

    1. Whether you are or are not a parent. - Whether or not I already saved a kid from a cliff dictates whether or not I can save another one? That doesn't make sense.
    2. How many people are in your family. - Same as above. "I've already saved five kids. The sixth one gets to drop." Doesn't sound moral to me.
    3. What activities you will spend your time doing. - What activities I have available to me dictates whether I save this kid from this cliff. Nope. Not a moral concern.
    4. The possibility of other children being born. - The only sense I could see from this would be some twisting around where it turned into "if I don't have an abortion then I won't be able to have more kids". I'd be okay with calling that moral but that seems REALLY rare.
    5. Fear of the unknown. - I don't know what might happen and it's scary so it's moral to drop the kid. No.
    6. Changing the priorities you have for the other members of your family. - Other people I love and care about might be highly inconvenienced if I don't drop the kid. Yikes. These are not sounding moral.
    7. The possibility of losing someone you come to care about. - I don't know about you, but if someone said, "Drop that kid off the cliff or I'm LEAVING you" I'd let them walk away.
    8. Hormonal changes. - The chemistry in my body is changing so I can throw the kid off the cliff. Just... wow.
    9. Changes to future health risks. - Again, this one I would call moral AND super rare.
    10. Social embarrassment and stigma - I'm embarrassed to be on this cliff and I hope no one sees me toss this kid to their doom. Ick. No. Not moral.
    11. The decreased ability to find a spouse whom you can marry and raise children with. - If I save this kid's life I might not be able to find a spouse so I had better drop them. Wow...
    12. The loss of friends and family - See 7
    13. The loss or degradation of your professional career - It's another debate entirely as they're not followed so well, but there are laws against that.
    14. The autonomy not to love someone you haven't chosen to love - I don't love this kid. I don't even know them. So it's cool to toss them down the cliff. Not cool at all.

    2 for 14? Not good.

    This is the fundamental thing about this analogy that you guys don't like: you call it a "bad analogy" because you think it doesn't factor in all these other concerns, but that's not what's happening here. What's happening is that it's FILTERING OUT the bad so-called "justifications". It highlights just how little these allegedly big concerns when weighing them against a life. That doesn't make for a bad analogy. It makes for cutting though irrelevant arguments.

    It's like if I were an alcoholic and you told me, "Zhav drinking booze is like drinking poison. You're KILLING yourself with every drink." and I counter with "Well your analogy is bad because it doesn't take into account things like how delicious rum is or how I forget about my problems when I'm drunk or how hilarious I become". The answer back isn't "Oh, you're right it is a bad analogy." The answer is "THOSE DON'T JUSTIFY POISONING YOURSELF". Likewise with this analogy saying "Well, I might get embarrassed about some aspect of this [your number 10]" isn't a moral justification for abortion or throwing a kid off a cliff.



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 83
    Last Post: March 2nd, 2015, 02:52 PM
  2. Free Will: a thought experiment
    By MyXenocide in forum Philosophical Debates
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: May 4th, 2012, 05:48 PM
  3. Taxation: A Thought Experiment
    By emtee10 in forum General Debate
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: February 12th, 2006, 09:57 AM


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts