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  1. #101
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    (Please forgive the drive by if these points have been made already as I have not read the whole thread)

    1. The fact that Hillary and the DNC paid for the dossier in all or in part is enough reason to raise a skeptical eye, not that that automatically makes it false news, just need to be extra wary as to it's truthfulness.
    Why? I'd go back and read the thread if I were you. MT has already been challenged on this. If you have new information then present it as support.

    ---------- Post added at 04:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    2. There seems to be conflicting information on how integral the dossier was to the FISA warrant, with some reports that the warrant would not have been issued without the dossier.
    That supports how important of an intelligence document it is. Thank you.

    ---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    3. Investors Business Daily has an interesting take:
    https://www.investors.com/politics/e...llary-clinton/
    "So here you have information flowing from the Clinton campaign from the Russians," House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Devin Nunes told Fox News on Sunday.
    Was Hillary The Real Colluder?
    Nunes, who heads Congress' investigation into the matter, said it was likely that information "was handed directly from Russian propaganda arms to the Clinton campaign, fed into the top levels of the FBI and Department of Justice to open up a counterintelligence investigation into a political campaign that has now colluded (with) nearly every top official at the DOJ and FBI over the course of the last couple years. Absolutely amazing."
    Clearly, a startling revelation if true.
    "So here you have information flowing from the Clinton campaign from the Russians, likely I believe was handed directly from Russian propaganda arms to the Clinton campaign," https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...he-doj-and-fbi

    Is there support for that. Seems like just another attempt to discredit the dossier.

    ---------- Post added at 05:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    4. The Washington Examiner has said that Bruce Ohr (4th highest official in the Justice Dept and who's wife worked for the Clinton campaign and Fusion GPS that commissioned the Dossier) met with Steele over 60 times since Jan 2016 and will have to testify before the House Judiciary Committee on Aug 28th to explain what the meetings were about.
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...he-doj-and-fbi
    and? He was reassigned, right?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #102
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Why? I'd go back and read the thread if I were you. MT has already been challenged on this. If you have new information then present it as support.[COLOR="Silver"]
    It would be much more informative if you had just listed the post # where you rebutted the claim.

    However:
    https://www.newsweek.com/republicans...clinton-692664
    "Republicans Are Pretending They Didn't Fund The Trump Golden Shower Dossier Before Hillary Clinton"


    "https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/fbi-releases-documents-showing-payments-trump-dossier-author-steele-n897506"
    "Fusion had been hired to get information on Trump during the primaries by a Republican media firm, Washington Free Beacon. When Trump became the Republican nominee, the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party began picking up the tab for the Fusion research. Fusion owner Glenn Simpson hired Steele, a Russia expert, to gather information from his sources in Russia".


    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/u...-expained.html
    "After Donald J. Trump secured the Republican presidential nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to try to unearth damaging information about him.

    "During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination.
    After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information."


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.b14a682a4962
    "The Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee helped fund research that resulted in a now-famous dossier containing allegations about President Trump's connections to Russia and possible coordination between his campaign and the Kremlin, people familiar with the matter said.
    Marc E. Elias, a lawyer representing the Clinton campaign and the DNC, retained Fusion GPS, a Washington firm, to conduct the research.
    After that, Fusion GPS hired dossier author Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence officer with ties to the FBI and the U.S. intelligence community, according to those people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
    Elias and his law firm, Perkins Coie, retained the company in April 2016 on behalf of the Clinton campaign and the DNC. Before that agreement, Fusion GPS's research into Trump was funded by an unknown Republican client during the GOP primary."


    https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-spy-on-trump/
    "FBI Scandal: The controversial congressional memo that alleges abuse of the government's surveillance program has now been released to the public. A close reading of the four-page document reveals potentially damning evidence that the FBI and Department of Justice used an anti-Trump dossier funded by the Hillary Clinton campaign as the basis for spying on the Trump campaign."


    https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/10/...teele-dossier/
    "On 25 October, the nonpartisan watchdog group Campaign Legal Center (CLC) filed a complaint alleging that the DNC and Clinton campaign had violated campaign finance laws by failing to accurately disclose the purpose and recipient of payments made through the Perkins Coie law firm to Fusion GPS for opposition research, “effectively hiding these payments from public scrutiny.” The complaint, which said the bulk of the disbursements were identified as paying for “legal services,” asked the FEC to investigate whether its disclosure rules had in fact been broken."




    ---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    That supports how important of an intelligence document it is. Thank you.[COLOR="Silver"]
    Yes, that even the author admits contains unverified info and if it was the most important evidence would be telling.

    ---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Is there support for that. Seems like just another attempt to discredit the dossier.[COLOR="Silver"]
    Perhaps we shall see when Bruce Ohr testifies

    ---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    and? He was reassigned, right?
    Yes, Dec 2017 and the significance of this to your point???

    https://thefederalist.com/2018/08/15...cials-spygate/
    "Rosenstein was Ohr’s boss prior to his demotion, yet Rosenstein claims he knew nothing of Ohr’s involvement in the Russia investigation. Rosenstein declared to Congress in a letter reviewed by Solomon that he was “unaware of Ohr’s activities with Steele,” that Ohr was “not assigned” to the Russia investigation, and that Ohr “was not in the chain of command.” Rosenstein added, “Any involvement Mr. Ohr had in this matter was without my knowledge.”

    That looks good on ones resume....Maybe that is why Ohr no longer holds any positon of authority at the DOJ
    Last edited by Belthazor; August 15th, 2018 at 02:06 PM.

  3. #103
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    It would be much more informative if you had just listed the post # where you rebutted the claim.
    There was nothing to rebutt. There still is nothing.

    "1. The fact that Hillary and the DNC paid for the dossier in all or in part is enough reason to raise a skeptical eye, not that that automatically makes it false news, just need to be extra wary as to it's truthfulness."

    Again, why?

    ---------- Post added at 01:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    Perhaps we shall see when Bruce Ohr testifies
    So as of yet unsupported. Retracted.

    ---------- Post added at 01:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    Yes, Dec 2017 and the significance of this to your point???

    https://thefederalist.com/2018/08/15...cials-spygate/
    "Rosenstein was Ohr’s boss prior to his demotion, yet Rosenstein claims he knew nothing of Ohr’s involvement in the Russia investigation. Rosenstein declared to Congress in a letter reviewed by Solomon that he was “unaware of Ohr’s activities with Steele,” that Ohr was “not assigned” to the Russia investigation, and that Ohr “was not in the chain of command.” Rosenstein added, “Any involvement Mr. Ohr had in this matter was without my knowledge.”

    That looks good on ones resume....Maybe that is why Ohr no longer holds any positon of authority at the DOJ
    What are you suggesting happened here?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #104
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    MT has already been challenged on this. If you have new information then present it as support.
    I offered 6 sources of support for the Claim Hillary and the DNC paid for, at least in part, the "Steele Dossier".
    That you don't challenge my sources means the claim stands.

    ---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    There was nothing to rebutt. There still is nothing.
    I don't understand this response at all.
    Are you now saying you agree they helped pay for the dossier or still maintaining they had no financial connection at all?

    ---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Again, why?
    Because it shows a reason for bias in reporting.

    If I said I saw John Doe shoot a man in a parking lot today you may likely think I saw a murder.
    If it is then told that John Doe was a plain clothes cop and shot the man trying to save a woman that he had stabbed, you may likely think the killing was justified and not murder.

    This is why in a court of law you swear to tell not just "the" truth, but the "whole truth and nothing but the truth". Nothing added, subtracted, nor speculation.
    A politically motivated document would be noted in a court proceeding "if" the court knew (as it should).

    ---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    So as of yet unsupported. Retracted.
    Negative. As I made no claim, I have nothing to retract.

    I quoted House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Devin Nunes and then I said:
    "Clearly, a startling revelation if true."
    and it would indeed be definitely startling if true, but no claim was made as to its truthfulness.

    ---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post

    What are you suggesting happened here?
    You asked "wasn't he reassigned", I responded with when and why.
    I suggested nothing, I see no need.
    It's fairly obvious to a reader with nothing invested in the outcome.

  5. #105
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I offered 6 sources of support for the Claim Hillary and the DNC paid for, at least in part, the "Steele Dossier".
    That you don't challenge my sources means the claim stands.
    You've offered no support as to who paid for the dossier having any effect on the quality of Steele's work. Please don't make this assertion again without support.

    ---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I don't understand this response at all.
    Are you now saying you agree they helped pay for the dossier or still maintaining they had no financial connection at all?[COLOR="Silver"]
    I believe it may have been covered already in the thread. I'll stipulate to that and tentatively agree that the DNC and Clinton Campaign was involved.

    ---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I don't understand this response at all.
    Are you now saying you agree they helped pay for the dossier or still maintaining they had no financial connection at all?[COLOR="Silver"]
    I believe it may have been covered already in the thread. I'll stipulate to that and tentatively agree that the DNC and Clinton Campaign was involved.

    ---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    Because it shows a reason for bias in reporting.
    Who's bias?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  6. #106
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    You've offered no support as to who paid for the dossier having any effect on the quality of Steele's work. Please don't make this assertion again without support.
    I said
    "1. The fact that Hillary and the DNC paid for the dossier in all or in part is enough reason to raise a skeptical eye, not that that automatically makes it false news, just need to be extra wary as to it's truthfulness."

    and stand by that comment, NOT because it is Hillary and the DNC specifically (I would say the same if we were talking about "the Donald" in the same circumstances), but because it's common sense, and further,

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod.../#588ceae91930
    "After an extensive investigation, the Washington Post disguised its disappointment with verbal gymnastics: “Although it’s impossible to say that the dossier is entirely inaccurate..., it is also impossible to say that it has been broadly validated.”
    "The Steele dossier could not stand up to the most liberal interpretation of rules of evidence. Even more damaging: one of the key verifiable claims of the dossier (that Trump’s personal lawyer orchestrated payoffs from Prague on specific dates) has been shown to be false."

    So, the author admits the dossier contains unverified information and there is at least one instance of it being wrong and the whole thing "not broadly validated". Sounds like poor quality to me.

    Now add political motivation which again, does not make it automatically false news, but it speaks to likely bias. So even if it contains truths, perhaps not "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and should be looked at that way in a court.

    ---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I believe it may have been covered already in the thread. I'll stipulate to that and tentatively agree that the DNC and Clinton Campaign was involved.
    Excellent!...I think...Why "tentatively"???

    Also,
    I never meant to imply Hillary did anything wrong necessarily just because her campaign was "looking for dirt".
    Last edited by Belthazor; August 16th, 2018 at 04:55 PM.

  7. #107
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I said
    "1. The fact that Hillary and the DNC paid for the dossier in all or in part is enough reason to raise a skeptical eye, not that that automatically makes it false news, just need to be extra wary as to it's truthfulness."

    and stand by that comment, NOT because it is Hillary and the DNC specifically (I would say the same if we were talking about "the Donald" in the same circumstances), but because it's common sense, and further,
    You've still offered no support that Steele worked in nothing but an honest fashion. Please don't make that assertion again without support.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  8. #108
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    You've still offered no support that Steele worked in nothing but an honest fashion. Please don't make that assertion again without support.
    1. That is a blatant opinion and not a rebuttal of any kind
    2. I never made that claim
    3. I have supported every claim I have made in this thread
    4. I welcome ODN staff to decide if you are willing

  9. #109
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    1. That is a blatant opinion and not a rebuttal of any kind
    2. I never made that claim
    3. I have supported every claim I have made in this thread
    4. I welcome ODN staff to decide if you are willing
    "just need to be extra wary as to it's truthfulness.""

    "but it speaks to likely bias." your post 106

    I'd like to hear your reasoning as to why? You're not saying the Clinton Campaign wrote the Steele Dossier are you? Or any part of it? Or edited it in any way?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  10. #110
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    "just need to be extra wary as to it's truthfulness.""

    "but it speaks to likely bias." your post 106

    I'd like to hear your reasoning as to why? You're not saying the Clinton Campaign wrote the Steele Dossier are you? Or any part of it? Or edited it in any way?
    I can't imagine that this is the sticking point before the conversation can move on, so can I assume the other points above are relatively agreed upon?

    To answer your question, it is just common sense. Your political "enemy" does not want to help "you" in any way!

    I have know idea how much influence the Clinton's may have had on the final version of the Dossier nor have I claimed to, nor have I said the info is all false (though apparently some is!!!).

  11. #111
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    To answer your question, it is just common sense. Your political "enemy" does not want to help "you" in any way!
    Ok, but that has no bearing on the dossier itself or Steele. Or Fusion GPS for that matter.

    ---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    nor have I said the info is all false (though apparently some is!!!).
    Buzzfeed has said there are some minor factual errors, are you speaking to anything specific?


    From the original publishing:

    "The report misspells the name of one company, "Alpha Group," throughout. It is Alfa Group. The report says the settlement of Barvikha, outside Moscow, is "reserved for the residences of the top leadership and their close associates." It is not reserved for anyone, and it is also populated by the very wealthy."

    That's nothing of substance.
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  12. #112
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Ok, but that has no bearing on the dossier itself or Steele. Or Fusion GPS for that matter.[COLOR="Silver"]
    I see no reason why it would not necessarily, especially given a contractor tries to deliver what the customer wants and is paying for does he not??.

    ---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    "The report misspells the name of one company, "Alpha Group," throughout. It is Alfa Group. The report says the settlement of Barvikha, outside Moscow, is "reserved for the residences of the top leadership and their close associates." It is not reserved for anyone, and it is also populated by the very wealthy."

    That's nothing of substance.
    I have been searching pro and con regarding the Dossier. Mostly what I read says the Dossier "is mostly unverifiable".

    I did see Mr Steele himself says it is at best "70-90% accurate" in his opinion and contains "unverified" info.

    So I agree, at the moment "nothing of substance".

    However, Mr Steele also believes a lot of the info will be verified.
    To that I would say, if it's the truth, let the chips fall where they may, because I don't care which politician you are (EVEN a Clinton), if you get caught with your "fingers in the cookie jar" you get a spank....
    (At least I wish they would. Even the few that do get caught and "pay the price" get sent to hotel/prisons at worst.....)
    Last edited by Belthazor; August 18th, 2018 at 07:37 PM.

  13. #113
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I see no reason why it would not necessarily, especially given a contractor tries to deliver what the customer wants and is paying for does he not??.
    Perhaps, you would have to support that is what happened in this case. A given contractor might also do the job with honesty and integrity and deliver a genuine product.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  14. #114
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    A given contractor might also do the job with honesty and integrity and deliver a genuine product.
    Perhaps, but when it's a political contractor looking for Nat'l Inquirer type of news it's not what the customer is looking for. The DNC certainly was not looking for the"truth" per se, they were only looking for that which they could use politically, IOW "dirt".

    When the author states almost 1/3 of his work may be inaccurate what kind of "quality" are we expecting/talking about???
    (emphasis mine)

    So again, are we generally in agreement with the earlier points of contention since this is your only current sticking point?????
    Last edited by Belthazor; August 19th, 2018 at 08:57 AM.

  15. #115
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Perhaps, but when it's a political contractor looking for Nat'l Inquirer type of news it's not what the customer is looking for. The DNC certainly was not looking for the"truth" per se, they were only looking for that which they could use politically, IOW "dirt".
    How do you know all of this? You keep making assertions about the circumstances of the dossier's creation. You're going to have to support them.

    ---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    When the author states almost 1/3 of his work may be inaccurate what kind of "quality" are we expecting/talking about???
    (emphasis mine)
    Possibly 90%. I don't know. How does it compare with other such intelligence documents?
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  16. #116
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    How do you know all of this? You keep making assertions about the circumstances of the dossier's creation. You're going to have to support them.
    Really??? Ok.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/u...-expained.html

    "During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination."
    "After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information."

    Note everyone is looking "to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump" and damaging information only!!!

    ---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post

    Possibly 90%. I don't know. How does it compare with other such intelligence documents?
    It really would make no difference at all how this "document" "compares to other such "intelligence documents" unless they are also used as evidence in court to get a warrant.
    We are discussing THIS document being used for a legal warrant and it needs to pass warrant legality. If the average "intelligence document" doesn't rise to the level of required evidence for a warrant, then they should not be used that way.
    Simple stuff....

    ---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    How do you know all of this? You keep making assertions about the circumstances of the dossier's creation. You're going to have to support them.
    [
    I am happy we agree on the earlier sticking points and feel confident we will work out this last point of contention in short order
    Last edited by Belthazor; August 19th, 2018 at 10:38 PM.

  17. #117
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor;
    Perhaps, but when it's a political contractor looking for Nat'l Inquirer type of news it's not what the customer is looking for. The DNC certainly was not looking for the"truth" per se, they were only looking for that which they could use politically, IOW "dirt".
    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Really??? Ok.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/u...-expained.html

    "During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination."
    "After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information."

    Note everyone is looking "to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump" and damaging information only!!!

    What do you mean by "not looking for the 'truth' per se"? The results of opposition researching can be both damaging and truthful. They are not mutual exclusive properties. Damaging information doesn't necessarily equate to "dirt" or National Inquire type news. And it makes sense that only damaging information would be researched and reported because the candidate isn't going to self-report that stuff. Hence the term: opposition research. Trump already does a great job of letting us know his great and wonderful dealings and qualities.
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by snackboy View Post

    What do you mean by "not looking for the 'truth' per se"? The results of opposition researching can be both damaging and truthful. They are not mutual exclusive properties. Damaging information doesn't necessarily equate to "dirt" or National Inquire type news. And it makes sense that only damaging information would be researched and reported because the candidate isn't going to self-report that stuff. Hence the term: opposition research. Trump already does a great job of letting us know his great and wonderful dealings and qualities.

    When you hire a company to " to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump.", that is what you are looking for and reporting back. "Truths" that do no political damage obviously would not be included (why would they?). So they may be looking for truth, but only regarding the narrow parameters of what will do political damage.

    I don't see a meaningful difference between "damaging information" and "dirt" in the context of this thread, but I don't want to quibble over a word/s.
    I'm good with "damaging information" if that makes it more palatable to you.


    Do you agree that so far the "Russian meddling" in the last election mostly amounted to releasing confidential but true information from the DNC?

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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    When you hire a company to " to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump.", that is what you are looking for and reporting back. "Truths" that do no political damage obviously would not be included (why would they?). So they may be looking for truth, but only regarding the narrow parameters of what will do political damage.
    Correct. Just like when a politician runs for office, he or she only communicates relationships and activities that will do no political damage to themselves. And those politicians have a flurry of people that guard against negative information coming out. So I don't really understand the objection or concern that the dossier is intended to cause political damage.

    I don't see a meaningful difference between "damaging information" and "dirt" in the context of this thread, but I don't want to quibble over a word/s.
    Damaging information is not necessarily dirt.

    I'm good with "damaging information" if that makes it more palatable to you.
    Damaging information, to me, would be information in which the individual acted in a way that was legally questionable, if not downright illegal. "Dirt", to me, would be activities that are morally questionable. When you speak of the National Inquire, I think of the latter. However, I also think that the NI makes stuff up out of thin air. I don't think that Steele just made stuff up. The dossier started out as "dirt" but then turned into documenting potential Russian influence of the our election.

    Do you agree that so far the "Russian meddling" in the last election mostly amounted to releasing confidential but true information from the DNC?
    Russian meddling could likely be a thread of it own. But my short answer is NO.
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    Re: The Steele Dossier

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Really??? Ok.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/u...-expained.html

    "During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination."
    "After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information."

    Note everyone is looking "to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump" and damaging information only!!![COLOR="Silver"]
    Why wouldn't that be the truth? and why wouldn't they be looking for the truth (as you stated)?

    ---------- Post added at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    It really would make no difference at all how this "document" "compares to other such "intelligence documents" unless they are also used as evidence in court to get a warrant.
    We are discussing THIS document being used for a legal warrant and it needs to pass warrant legality. If the average "intelligence document" doesn't rise to the level of required evidence for a warrant, then they should not be used that way.
    Simple stuff....[COLOR="Silver"]
    This has already been covered in the thread with MT. Unless you have some new support as to why the dossier wasn't appropriate to use.
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