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  1. #1
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    3-D Printing Guns

    Should it be illegal to share the blueprints for 3-D printed guns on the internet? Should the making of such guns at home be illegal?

    Opponents Try to Block Posting of Blueprints for Homemade Guns

    WASHINGTON — State officials, Democratic lawmakers and gun control groups waged a frantic legal fight on Tuesday to block the online distribution of blueprints for 3-D printed “ghost guns,” even as President Trump said he is “looking into” his administration’s decision last month to allow the posting of instructions for making the untraceable, plastic firearms.

    Cody Wilson, a champion of gun-rights and anarchism from Texas who has waged a yearslong legal battle for the right to post the schematics for making homemade guns, has said he will begin making the plans available following a settlement with the State Department ending the government’s effort to stop him.

    But with just hours before an August 1 deadline when Mr. Wilson has said he will upload many more schematics — including instructions for making AR-15-style rifles — alarmed public officials accelerated their efforts to get courts to prevent Mr. Wilson from moving forward with his plans.

    Mr. Wilson’s website touts the arrival of “the age of the downloadable gun” on Wednesday. Critics say the homemade firearms, which can be printed without serial numbers or government registration, would allow terrorists to evade detection and could lead to the widespread distribution of these untraceable weapons.

    The clash over public safety and Mr. Wilson’s claim of a First Amendment right to publish the materials has been brewing for weeks. But in a tweet Tuesday morning, Mr. Trump underscored the competing views even inside the administration and raised the prospect of another shift in his administration’s approach.

    “I am looking into 3-D Plastic Guns being sold to the public,” the president said in the tweet. “Already spoke to NRA, doesn’t seem to make much sense!”

    The online statement from the president comes a day after eight states and the District of Columbia filed a joint lawsuit in federal court in Seattle attempting to force the Trump administration to prevent Mr. Wilson’s organization, Defense Distributed, from making the technical plans for the plastic guns available online.

    State Department officials in the Obama administration blocked the company in 2013 from distributing the downloadable designs for the firearm, saying it violated export laws that ban the distribution of firearms to other countries. Mr. Wilson sued in 2015, and the legal case had dragged on for several years.

    But last month, the State Department reversed course and said it would allow the company to post the plans after concluding that publication of the schematics does not violate the defense export controls designed to keep sensitive military technology out of the hands of the country’s enemies.

    In the lawsuit filed Monday, the officials urged a judge to block that decision, saying that allowing the company to continue posting the plans online is a threat to public safety and that terrorists could use hard-to-trace plastic weapons to evade detection by metal detectors.

    “3-D printed guns are functional weapons that are often unrecognizable by standard metal detectors because they are made out of materials other than metal (e.g., plastic) and untraceable because they contain no serial numbers,” the state officials said in the lawsuit. “Anyone with access to the CAD files and a commercially available 3-D printer could readily manufacture, possess, or sell such a weapon.”

    Lawyers for both sides in the case are expected to argue their case before a Seattle judge Tuesday afternoon. The state officials are urging the court to impose a temporary restraining order on Mr. Wilson’s organization preventing him from posting more of the schematics online.

    In a Trenton courtroom on Tuesday, following a volley of threats and lawsuits between Mr. Wilson and the New Jersey attorney general, Gurbir Grewal, Mr. Wilson agreed to temporarily stop uploading new files to his website and to prevent internet users in the state from downloading the plans. State officials in Pennsylvania won a similar temporary concession on Sunday.

    On Capitol Hill, alarmed Senate Democrats declared that Mr. Trump would be responsible for any injuries or deaths resulting from untraceable 3-D plastic guns, and called on him to reverse the policy immediately.

    “It’s his doing, it’s his responsibility and the blood is going to be on his hands,” said Senator Richard Blumenthal, Democrat of Connecticut. “He can tweet from now until the end of his administration but the hard reality is that he can stop needless death and injury in America.”

    Senator Edward J. Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, said: “Donald Trump will be totally responsible for every downloadable plastic AR-15 that will be roaming the streets of our country if he does not act today, because beginning tonight at 12:01 a.m., bad people can go on Instagram and get an insta-gun.”

    Mr. Blumenthal and Mr. Markey were among a group of Democrats who announced they were introducing two separate bills related to 3-D guns: one that would bar the manufacture and sale of any untraceable weapon, and another that would prohibit the online publication of blueprints for the plastic guns... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/31/u...T.nav=top-news
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  2. #2
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    No, because the manufacture of guns is a legal occupation.
    Especially if the gun is not for resell.

    That said, i don't mean that there can't be any restrictions or legal requirements.
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  3. #3
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Should it be illegal to share the blueprints for 3-D printed guns on the internet? Should the making of such guns at home be illegal?
    If a person has the right to own a gun, I see no reason why they shouldn't have the right to a blueprint of a gun as well as the right to print it. Just imagine what this will do to gun companies if people can print their own AR-15s. The NRA will certainly come out against this if they already haven't.
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  4. #4
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    I think that this is one of those things where they are coming at it from the wrong angle.

    Plans for making guns should not be illegal, they are nearly impossible to effectively control.

    They should focus on rules for firearm registration and any gun someone prints would need to follow those rules. Possessing a gun that doesn't follow those rules would get you in trouble.

    It's not really all that hard to make guns, so I don't see this being of especially great significance.
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  6. #5
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I think that this is one of those things where they are coming at it from the wrong angle.

    Plans for making guns should not be illegal, they are nearly impossible to effectively control.

    They should focus on rules for firearm registration and any gun someone prints would need to follow those rules. Possessing a gun that doesn't follow those rules would get you in trouble.

    It's not really all that hard to make guns, so I don't see this being of especially great significance.
    These laws already exist. Individuals may make firearms. However, there are restrictions on selling these firearms and it is against the law to create a gun which isn't traceable. This was actually an issue prior to 3D printed guns which is why the law exists. The latest 3D gun scare is kinda just that. It is a scare tactic by those who would otherwise like to eliminate guns from society. From what I have read and can infer this whole issue is a silly waste of time.
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  8. #6
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    I'm tempted to say this is not a waste of time issue, but at the end of the day we are talking about people who want to limit the existence of 16th century technology. So yea, there are limits to what can possibly be done.
    The pandora box of Fire Arms has been opened.. probably best to just get over it and teach people how to use it proper.
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  9. #7
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    The pandora box of Fire Arms has been opened.. probably best to just get over it and teach people how to use it proper.
    Sort of. I think we can still inculcate a society that is peaceful enough that guns just aren't something people need ans so they won't generally have them.

    I'd love to live in a society where the idea that you might need to kill someone is so remote as to be ludicrous. There are societies like that on earth today where murder is incredibly rare and hardly anyone ever carries a weapon on them. The US isn't one of those countries, unfortunately. Indeed the Americas (collectively) are a relative hot-bed of crime and murder.
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  10. #8
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    Sort of. I think we can still inculcate a society that is peaceful enough that guns just aren't something people need ans so they won't generally have them.

    I'd love to live in a society where the idea that you might need to kill someone is so remote as to be ludicrous. There are societies like that on earth today where murder is incredibly rare and hardly anyone ever carries a weapon on them. The US isn't one of those countries, unfortunately. Indeed the Americas (collectively) are a relative hot-bed of crime and murder.
    I think America is a special case in all the world.
    We do have the peace utopias you speak of here.. you just have to move to the right town. and frankly lumping rural America in with the Chicago drug and gang fulled war zones.. is counter productive.
    Also.. those utopias are probably fairly well armed places.

    Point is, that growth of population is relevant. I remember when my home town was small, many people hunted and owned multiple guns... but murder was unheard of. Town grows, and we had some guy walk into wal-mart with a shotgun to kill his girlfriend.
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  11. #9
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I think America is a special case in all the world.
    We do have the peace utopias you speak of here.. you just have to move to the right town. and frankly lumping rural America in with the Chicago drug and gang fulled war zones.. is counter productive.
    Also.. those utopias are probably fairly well armed places.
    Some of America's rural areas are very violent and crime-prone. And some of the urban areas are very low crime areas. There are many rural counties that have a much much higher murder rate than Chicago does.

    Here are the 10 counties in the US with the highest murder rates.
    https://www.policeone.com/ambush/art...t-murder-rate/

    Basically, the deep south is the murder belt of the US. Baltimore is the only one in the north that can compete. The lists of cities only count places with more than 250K population. And that hides the fact that poor rural areas actually have a lot more violence per capita than most of the big cities do.

    The Utopias are not always well armed, and the **** holes are generally not poorly armed. Gun's just are not really part of the equation as to whether you have crime or not. Wealth inequality/poverty and social attitudes about followig the law and civil codes of coduct, as well as the effectiveness of law enforcement are what really drives crime rates.


    Point is, that growth of population is relevant. I remember when my hometown was small, many people hunted and owned multiple guns... but murder was unheard of. Town grows, and we had some guy walk into wal-mart with a shotgun to kill his girlfriend.
    I don't recall saying anything about population growth...
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  12. #10
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    Some of America's rural areas are very violent and crime-prone. And some of the urban areas are very low crime areas. There are many rural counties that have a much much higher murder rate than Chicago does.
    So you changed my point of moving to the right CITY to a discussion of counties? That would be a straw-man.
    Good job.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG
    I don't recall saying anything about population growth...
    I was the one who brought it up, pointing out that areas that are the utopias you seek, can turn into the hell holes we don't want, in no small part to population growth.

    ---
    To review, You claimed that America was a relative hot bed of crime and murder.
    I countered with that is a hasty generalization because there are plenty of cities you can move to that are the utopias you seek. Not counties, cities.. rural towns if you will (because by definition a small town is going to be rural).
    Sure, you can find a sh@t hole small town... that doesn't really address my point, nor would small tows being the top 10, mean that there are not plenty of utopias to be found here in America.
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  13. #11
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    Re: 3-D Printing Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    So you changed my point of moving to the right CITY to a discussion of counties? That would be a straw-man.
    I wanted to make it clear that violence is not limited to big cities, and that in fact, many of the rural areas are as or more violent than even the highest crime cities are. It is a common misconception on the right that the most dangerous places in America are its large cities. I may have misunderstood, but you seemed to be implying that rural America and Chicago were polar opposites in terms of crime rates.

    I was the one who brought it up, pointing out that areas that are the utopias you seek, can turn into the hell holes we don't want, in no small part to population growth.
    Then I am pointing out that population growth is not intrinsically related to violent crime rates. Many places see large population growth without a significant increase in crime. In doing a bit of research, the evidence is mixed. Sometimes it goes up and shows a strong correlation, sometimes it doesn't and even shows a negative correlation.

    My take away was that with density comes opportunity for crime. If societies work to prevent crime, they actually decrease it, but if they don't pay attention to the potential problem, it gets much worse.

    To review, You claimed that America was a relative hotbed of crime and murder.
    To clarify, I said, "The Americas" which includes both north and south America.

    I countered with that is a hasty generalization because there are plenty of cities you can move to that are the utopias you seek.
    You said towns, by which I thought you meant smaller towns as poosed to large cities.

    Sure, you can find a sh@t hole small town... that doesn't really address my point, nor would small tows being the top 10, mean that there are not plenty of utopias to be found here in America.
    I never said there were not. I only said that the Americas are a relative hot bed of violent crime. I say this because on average, they have more violent crime than in asia and europe. Africa beats north america, but south america beats africa. South America has the most violent crime in the world (by continent). The fact that parts of the US are relatively low crime doesn't change those facts.
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