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  1. #41
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Well, yes, this front has died down but the attacks against the Russia probe continue on other fronts - Rosenstein and Kavanaugh for example.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #42
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I didn't say exposing truth is harmful.

    But intentionally acquiring illegally obtained dirt on one's political opponent and receiving it from a foreign source is harmful to US democracy and is illegal as well.

    Nonsense..
    Intentionally acquiring truth about an American politician from a foreign source is harmful to America how?
    What law is broken in doing so?
    You are making a very generalized statement here that it always applies, not just in this particular case.

    If I obtained truths from Russia about Hillary (assuming I wanted to hurt her election chances and the info wasn't classified) and published it online, what laws are broken?
    How are US interests or Democracy hurt by such actions?

    I would argue it is in the best interest of our democracy (generally) to know the truth. That the evidence comes from a foreign source is irrelevant if the information is the truth, and sometimes necessary as our gov't (and the rest) want to hide unpleasant truths from us.

  3. #43
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Nonsense..
    Intentionally acquiring truth about an American politician from a foreign source is harmful to America how?
    What law is broken in doing so?
    “One of the most commonly used provisions of the U.S. Code, 18 USC 371, makes it a federal crime for two or more people to conspire ‘to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose,'” Schulhofer told us via email. “Agreeing (colluding) with someone for a perfectly lawful purpose, like arranging a game of golf or tennis, is not a crime. But colluding with the Russians, i.e. agreeing to cooperate, encourage or assist them in any way in pursuing anything they were doing that was illegal, is most certainly a crime.”https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ion/953326002/
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #44
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    “One of the most commonly used provisions of the U.S. Code, 18 USC 371, makes it a federal crime for two or more people to conspire ‘to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose,'” Schulhofer told us via email. “Agreeing (colluding) with someone for a perfectly lawful purpose, like arranging a game of golf or tennis, is not a crime. But colluding with the Russians, i.e. agreeing to cooperate, encourage or assist them in any way in pursuing anything they were doing that was illegal, is most certainly a crime.”https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ion/953326002/
    Now if you could show that me telling the truth, that is confirmed by the Russians "is an offense against the United States..." and you got it!
    Can you do that?

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  6. #45
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Now if you could show that me telling the truth, that is confirmed by the Russians "is an offense against the United States..." and you got it!
    Can you do that?
    "agreeing to cooperate, encourage or assist them in any way in pursuing anything they were doing that was illegal, is most certainly a crime" my source
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  7. #46
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    "agreeing to cooperate, encourage or assist them in any way in pursuing anything they were doing that was illegal, is most certainly a crime" my source
    Now again, if you can show that me telling the truth and being corroborated by Russians meets that criteria, you have got it!
    Can you do that?

    I don't see anything illegal in this scenario?



    Can you do that?

  8. #47
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Now again, if you can show that me telling the truth and being corroborated by Russians meets that criteria, you have got it!
    Can you do that?

    I don't see anything illegal in this scenario?



    Can you do that?
    Well, yes, that is the question a hack wouldn't want answered, hence the desire to shut down the investigation.

    The timing of the Trump Tower meetings and statements from Trump are more than ample reason to continue.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  9. #48
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Well, yes, that is the question a hack wouldn't want answered, hence the desire to shut down the investigation.

    The timing of the Trump Tower meetings and statements from Trump are more than ample reason to continue.
    Since you avoided my question completely, I will take that as a no, you can't "...show that me telling the truth, that is confirmed by the Russians "is an offense against the United States..." or in any way illegal.

  10. #49
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Since you avoided my question completely, I will take that as a no, you can't "...show that me telling the truth, that is confirmed by the Russians "is an offense against the United States..." or in any way illegal.
    I already did in post 43.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  11. #50
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I already did in post 43.
    Negative.
    You showed a federal law. What you haven't shown was that an illegal act was committed so as to invoke the law significance.

    And you have not adequately responded to the very next post (#44):
    "Now if you could show that me telling the truth, that is confirmed by the Russians "is an offense against the United States..." and you got it!
    Can you do that?"

    You have not shown why it is illegal for me to do so or what law is broken if I did so. Just saying it is illegal ain't cutting no peanut butter here, there needs to be law that is clearly broken.

    To use the law you are quoting, another law must be broken per your post #43

    You have not answered this since post #42
    "Intentionally acquiring truth about an American politician from a foreign source is harmful to America how?
    What law is broken in doing so?"

  12. #51
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Now again, if you can show that me telling the truth and being corroborated by Russians meets that criteria, you have got it!
    Can you do that?

    I don't see anything illegal in this scenario?
    That does not meet the criteria of being a crime.

    However, if the Trump campaign made any coordinated agreement with Russia to create political advertisements or propaganda within the US during the election, that would be criminal activity on the part of the Trump campaign. They would have to show that an agreement of some kind was reached. One, echoing the other does not represent collusion.

    Mind you, for the Russians, it is illegal for them to spend money in the US supporting or attacking a US candidate during an election. They can do it themselves at home, but not in the US. It doesn't matter if they coordinated it with anyone. The collision is only a criminal matter with respect to the Trump campaign as their involvement in any such effort would implicate them in the crime.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  13. #52
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried;561831
    That does not meet the criteria of being a crime.
    Thank you.

    ---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    However, if the Trump campaign made any coordinated agreement with Russia to create political advertisements or propaganda within the US during the election, that would be criminal activity on the part of the Trump campaign. They would have to show that an agreement of some kind was reached. One, echoing the other does not represent collusion.
    Agreed.

    ---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Mind you, for the Russians, it is illegal for them to spend money in the US supporting or attacking a US candidate during an election.
    It's illegal for the US to use tax $'s to do the same thing to the Russians as well. Do you suppose the US still does it anyway?...

  14. #53
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    That does not meet the criteria of being a crime.

    However, if the Trump campaign made any coordinated agreement with Russia to create political advertisements or propaganda within the US during the election, that would be criminal activity on the part of the Trump campaign. They would have to show that an agreement of some kind was reached. One, echoing the other does not represent collusion.
    Even knowing about it and not notifying the FBI would be illegal which is what appears to be what happened. If memory serves this happened to Al Gore when his campaign received an illegally obtained copy of Bush's debate prep.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  15. #54
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Mind you, for the Russians, it is illegal for them to spend money in the US supporting or attacking a US candidate during an election. They can do it themselves at home, but not in the US. It doesn't matter if they coordinated it with anyone. The collision is only a criminal matter with respect to the Trump campaign as their involvement in any such effort would implicate them in the crime.
    Can you explain how Russian propaganda efforts to influence voters in the U.S. is illegal? It seems to me that Mueller is trying to criminalize speech that he doesn't like, by people he doesn't like, in violation of the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

    And because Mueller's criminal charges are bogus, so would be any charge of "collusion" with an act of political free speech that is protected by the first amendment.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  16. #55
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Can you explain how Russian propaganda efforts to influence voters in the U.S. is illegal? It seems to me that Mueller is trying to criminalize speech that he doesn't like, by people he doesn't like, in violation of the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

    And because Mueller's criminal charges are bogus, so would be any charge of "collusion" with an act of political free speech that is protected by the first amendment.
    Here's the indictment.

    It doesn't seem to allow you to cut and paste but the introduction on page two is just a paragraph and explains it nicely.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  17. #56
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote the specific text you think is important and explain how it isn't a violation of free speech rights.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  18. #57
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    No response from you, of course. Here's what you should respond, if you were actually willing to do the honest analysis involved.

    Failing to register as foreign agents, stealing identities, and other efforts to remain concealed violate federal laws. Those charges are legit.

    But spending money on employing people to sow discord through otherwise legal internet posts and emails, or on any other form of legal speech, is protected by the first amendment.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  19. #58
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    Re: Who is Bruce Ohr?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post

    Failing to register as foreign agents, stealing identities, and other efforts to remain concealed violate federal laws. Those charges are legit.

    But spending money on employing people to sow discord through otherwise legal internet posts and emails, or on any other form of legal speech, is protected by the first amendment.
    You just answered your own question. Thank you.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

 

 
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