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  1. #41
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Indeed, she never claimed to be a member of any nation and there was no fraud. She met the requirements of Trump's bet and he should therefore pay up.
    She claimed to be Cherokee. She isn't and allowed her fake claim to be used to help her further her career. That is fraudulent. Per the spokesperson for the Cherokee tribe:
    "Cherokee Nation, the largest tribe in the United States, agrees. In a public statement,the tribecalled Warren’s use of a DNA test “inappropriate and wrong,” and said the senator “is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.” Neither Warren nor the Democratic Party has responded to the statement."
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/10/18/native-american-elizabeth-warren-cherokee-ancestry-column/1668763002/

    Let me point out, there is this controversy about whether any of her jobs resulted from her claim of minority status and that really isn't the issue. The issue is whether she used her supposed minority status to gain some sort of advantage during her career. Whether her attempts failed or not is irrelevant. An attempted rape is still a crime, right? Well, she attempted to gain some sort of advantage from her ancestry. She allowed Harvard to claim her as a minority member of its staff. She claimed minority status. These are not contested facts. And really, I think, all anyone expected of her was an apology. A mea culpa of sorts where she admitted it was probably bad judgement back then and that going forward she has no claim to being a Cherokee.

    Personally, I don't even find her claims to be all that terrible. I mean if liberals allow people to choose their gender, why shouldn't they be free to choose their Indian tribe? She should be able to choose her gender, her race, or her Native American ancestry, right? I am just confused why liberals aren't defending her choice to self-identify which would be much more consistent with the progressive world-view. So, I'd be ok if she just took a stance and either said it was her choice or to take the conservative side and apologize for previous transgression.

    Nothing in the OP mentions Trump's bet. This is just a red herring.
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  3. #42
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    She claimed to be Cherokee. She isn't and allowed her fake claim to be used to help her further her career. That is fraudulent. Per the spokesperson for the Cherokee tribe:
    "Cherokee Nation, the largest tribe in the United States, agrees. In a public statement,the tribecalled Warren’s use of a DNA test “inappropriate and wrong,” and said the senator “is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.” Neither Warren nor the Democratic Party has responded to the statement."
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/10/18/native-american-elizabeth-warren-cherokee-ancestry-column/1668763002/
    She actually claimed to have part Cherokee and Deleware heritage, not to be an official member of any tribe - she never asked for that nor did she ask for any affiliation or benefit associated with being a memeber of a tribe.

    ---------- Post added at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Nothing in the OP mentions Trump's bet. This is just a red herring.
    But it is integral to your side's claim. Your source mentions the problem of "blood quantum" which is what she is upset with...that a DNA test alone can be used to determine citizenship, when it shouldn't.
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  4. #43
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    She actually claimed to have part Cherokee and Deleware heritage, not to be an official member of any tribe - she never asked for that nor did she ask for any affiliation or benefit associated with being a memeber of a tribe.


    You mean she didn't specifically say, "Hey please hire me because I'm Cherokee." This rebuttal does not address my argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    But it is integral to your side's claim. Your source mentions the problem of "blood quantum" which is what she is upset with...that a DNA test alone can be used to determine citizenship, when it shouldn't.
    My side? Is this a team sport? How about integral to my claim? How about integral to the OP's claim? And no. Trump isn't relevant to either.

    Guess you had no response to being allowed to self-identify. Not surprised.
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  5. #44
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT][/SIZE]
    [/COLOR]You mean she didn't specifically say, "Hey please hire me because I'm Cherokee." This rebuttal does not address my argument.
    Because your post #41 "and allowed her fake claim to be used to help her further her career." is just an opinion not any kind of argument. You can try to support that it furthered her career and counter the support I already provided that it didn't.

    ---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Is this a team sport? How about integral to my claim? How about integral to the OP's claim? And no. Trump isn't relevant to either.
    Discounting Trump's demands for a DNA test now that it has been taken is moving the goal posts, if it had turned out different you'd be waving the flag of victory and launching fireworks. You lost. Her ancestors (at least one) were native americans and they shouldn't be discounted or disrespected.
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  6. #45
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Because your post #41 "and allowed her fake claim to be used to help her further her career." is just an opinion not any kind of argument. You can try to support that it furthered her career and counter the support I already provided that it didn't.

    No. It allowed.... It allowed her to help her further her career. She claimed minority status which any reasonable person would agree is an attempt to gain advantage based on her claim. Whether it worked is a separate issue and, in no way, contradicts my claim. I tried to pickpocket the man but he had nothing in his pocket. Am I a thief?


    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Discounting Trump's demands for a DNA test now that it has been taken is moving the goal posts, if it had turned out different you'd be waving the flag of victory and launching fireworks. You lost. Her ancestors (at least one) were native americans and they shouldn't be discounted or disrespected.
    This is trolling on your part. Trump has nothing to do with the OP's claim. Nothing. Please either resist bringing him into this debate again or I'll report you for violating ODN's terms and conditions as it relates to trolling.
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  7. #46
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    No. It allowed.... It allowed her to help her further her career. She claimed minority status which any reasonable person would agree is an attempt to gain advantage based on her claim. Whether it worked is a separate issue and, in no way, contradicts my claim. I tried to pickpocket the man but he had nothing in his pocket. Am I a thief? [COLOR=Silver]
    Any reasonable person would accept her explanation especially in the light of direct instances where she could've made the same claim and been awarded advancement, which she didn't.

    ---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    This is trolling on your part. Trump has nothing to do with the OP's claim. Nothing. Please either resist bringing him into this debate again or I'll report you for violating ODN's terms and conditions as it relates to trolling.
    Your threat is meaningless since it has everything to do with the presumed evidence needed to prove her affiliation with the tribes. That he is a welcher, yes, you're right, I won't bring that up again unless someone else does.

    What this looks like to me is you don't like the results of the DNA test which was so strenuously demanded by Trump. Sounds very familiar, like when your side didn't like the birth certificate produced by Obama. It's the same racism, being used a little bit differently, for political advantage. (Both are also good examples of moving the goal posts)

    If you're saying that the DNA test can no longer be used as any type of support then I cannot see any advancement in this debate since no evidence, at all, of any type of fraud has been presented.
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  8. #47
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Any reasonable person would accept her explanation especially in the light of direct instances where she could've made the same claim and been awarded advancement, which she didn't.
    1) Are you disputing that she claimed minority status while a professor at Harvard? Are you disputing that she didn't protest when Harvard listed her as a minority hire?

    2) Her DNA tests are not really relevant unless you are finally admitting that identifying as a NA is a choice and that she is making her choice based on her DNA test. If that is your position, fine. As I noted before, that'd be entirely consistent with other progressive positions such as self-identifying one's gender. Should she choose to either apologize for obfuscating the issue of NA heritage or owning her decision as an example of her right to self-identify, then there is nothing more to say. I'd readily accept her answer either way. I may not agree with her position, but I'd respect it intellectually. Instead, she is trying to split the baby down the middle in a manner which is just aggrandizing and/or intellectually dishonest.
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  9. #48
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    1) Are you disputing that she claimed minority status while a professor at Harvard? Are you disputing that she didn't protest when Harvard listed her as a minority hire?
    Her explanation, per the factcheck source, was perfectly reasonable.

    ---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    and that she is making her choice based on her DNA test.
    She isn't as she has previously stated.

    ---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    2) Her DNA tests are not really relevant unless you are finally admitting that identifying as a NA is a choice
    I'd say it can be extremely complicated. Trump didn't ask for a complicated response, he asked for a DNA test.
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  10. #49
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Her explanation, per the factcheck source, was perfectly reasonable.
    That's not what I asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    She isn't as she has previously stated.
    She took the test to demonstrate something, right? She used the DNA in order to validate her claim. Either the DNA is relevant to her claim or it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I'd say it can be extremely complicated. Trump didn't ask for a complicated response, he asked for a DNA test.
    Not complicated at all. Is being NA a choice? Either it is or it isn't. Either it can be determined via DNA or it cannot. What is Warren claiming? Either she is claiming she is NA, meaning it is her right to self-identify or she isn't.

    Again, I'm merely asking for consistency and you keep dancing around my question as to whether one may self-identify as a NA.
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  11. #50
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    That's not what I asked.
    That you don't like the answer isn't going to change it.

    ---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    She took the test to demonstrate something, right? She used the DNA in order to validate her claim. Either the DNA is relevant to her claim or it isn't.
    To comply with a wager. She's argued there is more to it as in her family history.

    ---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    What is Warren claiming? Either she is claiming she is NA, meaning it is her right to self-identify or she isn't.
    As an official member of the affiliated tribes or as a person with NA ancestry? Has she ever applied to be an official member? Is there such a thing?

    ---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    Not complicated at all. Is being NA a choice? Either it is or it isn't. Either it can be determined via DNA or it cannot.
    Others disagree. I don't speak Italian, have never even been to Italy, and know nothing about the culture. Am I Italian? No. Do I have Italian ancestry? Yes. Complicated.
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  12. #51
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    That you don't like the answer isn't going to change it.

    ---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------

    It isn't a matter of liking your response. It is a matter of me asking you a question and you not answering the question which was asked. So, let's start again:
    1) Are you disputing that she claimed minority status while a professor at Harvard? Are you disputing that she didn't protest when Harvard listed her as a minority hire?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    To comply with a wager. She's argued there is more to it as in her family history.

    ---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

    Yes, the wager. Wager aside, as we both know this wasn't about winning a bet, what was her intent in taking the DNA test? What did she hope to establish? If she wanted to establish the legitimacy of claims to NA ancestry in order to justify her past claims, then we are again at a loggerheads. Is being NA something one can self-identify?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    As an official member of the affiliated tribes or as a person with NA ancestry? Has she ever applied to be an official member? Is there such a thing?

    ---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

    That's a great question and one would think you'd have answered that question prior to defending Ms. Warren. In order to claim that one is a NA, one should belong to a recognized NA tribe and each tribe has its own requirements which involves, among other things, blood quantum. To my knowledge the least restrictive tribe requires a blood quantum of 1/16 which is significantly more than Warren has based on her DNA test.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Others disagree. I don't speak Italian, have never even been to Italy, and know nothing about the culture. Am I Italian? No. Do I have Italian ancestry? Yes. Complicated.
    No, it isn't complicated. You are free to tell people you're Italian. There are no real benefits to telling people you are Italian and there is no tribe of Italians which regulate such matters. So, yes, you are free to self-identify as Italian. However, should this same standard be applied to all cultures and nations of people? If not, why? If you can freely call yourself Italian based on some distant ancestry, then why can't Warren simply tell everyone she is NA? Is she NA? If not, then why take the DNA test at all since it apparently proves nothing.
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  13. #52
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    @ ibelsd... Those are some really good questions directly relevant to this discussion and to some larger social implications as well.

    Suppose we do generally accept self identification, how are we to handle when the group rejects you. Like if I claed to be an Indian from a local tribe, but that local tribe rejects my claim as it doesn't meet their standard. .. what then?
    Why should this apply only to nationality why not other groups?
    Can I claim to be a NFL player.. if the NFL denies my claim?
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  14. #53
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    @ ibelsd... Those are some really good questions directly relevant to this discussion and to some larger social implications as well.

    Suppose we do generally accept self identification, how are we to handle when the group rejects you. Like if I claed to be an Indian from a local tribe, but that local tribe rejects my claim as it doesn't meet their standard. .. what then?
    Why should this apply only to nationality why not other groups?
    Can I claim to be a NFL player.. if the NFL denies my claim?
    I was thinking more along the lines of getting progressives to apply their principles consistently. Per progressives, it is ok to self-identify gender, irrespective of whether other men/women wish to accept scuh inclusion. Why can't people claim to be different genders, different races, or different nationalities? The NFL thing is probably a bridge too far, but I like your thinking. I could use some fat stacks for my 12 year service where I self-identified as a QB for the Steelers. Seriously, though, as can be seen by Warren's reaction and Cowboy's response to my questions, they cannot really reconcile this view of identity and the inherent problem when a minority group refuses to allow such open inclusion to its own group. Warren, in her mad rush to prove she wasn't a liar exposed herself to something even worse, having to bridge the Gordian knot which binds cultural appropriation, self-identity, and inclusion into an illogical quagmire.
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  15. #54
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by IBELSD
    I was thinking more along the lines of getting progressives to apply their principles consistently
    hahaha!.. O man I needed a good belly laugh today. It has been such a long work week... thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBELSD
    The NFL thing is probably a bridge too far, but I like your thinking. I could use some fat stacks for my 12 year service where I self-identified as a QB for the Steelers.
    I am sure it is a bridge too far, but I'm not sure I understand a logical distinction. It is a group, so i don't see why you can't self identify into it, if we are allowed to self identify into groups, even if those groups have rules that specifically exclude us.

    But it should bring to focus the problem outsiders have.. Here I have you self identifying as a QB for the steelers. The steelers I would assume would deny you are part of their group..
    Now what am I to do? Do I accept your claim, or agree with the rejection? I could care less if you are or are not in the group. You may have a terrible towel in your house as "evidence". Showing that you can prove at least a very loose association with the steelers.
    Same thing here with Native Americans, and those claiming to be actual Native Americans. If the group rejects them... then what am I to do?

    All that is to say that your question about self identifying is really a significant one. Such a shame it is being ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBELSD
    Warren, in her mad rush to prove she wasn't a liar exposed herself to something even worse, having to bridge the Gordian knot which binds cultural appropriation, self-identity, and inclusion into an illogical quagmire.
    ...but TRUMP!
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  16. #55
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    1) Are you disputing that she claimed minority status while a professor at Harvard?
    My response is no qualified with Ms. Warren's explanation.

    ---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Are you disputing that she didn't protest when Harvard listed her as a minority hire?
    My response is yes qualified with Ms. Warren's explanation.

    ---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Yes, the wager. Wager aside, as we both know this wasn't about winning a bet, what was her intent in taking the DNA test? What did she hope to establish? If she wanted to establish the legitimacy of claims to NA ancestry in order to justify her past claims, then we are again at a loggerheads. Is being NA something one can self-identify?
    Why are we at loggerheads? Who said DNA can't be used to establish NA ancestry?

    If one can't self-identify, how is it established? Is there a vote or something?

    ---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    That's a great question and one would think you'd have answered that question prior to defending Ms. Warren. In order to claim that one is a NA, one should belong to a recognized NA tribe and each tribe has its own requirements which involves, among other things, blood quantum. To my knowledge the least restrictive tribe requires a blood quantum of 1/16 which is significantly more than Warren has based on her DNA test.
    Has she claimed to be NA or of NA ancestry?

    ---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post

    No, it isn't complicated. You are free to tell people you're Italian. There are no real benefits to telling people you are Italian and there is no tribe of Italians which regulate such matters.
    I disagree, I wouldn't say I'm Italian, that's misleading, I'm of Italian ancestry. You know there's no benefits to being Italian? Maybe there's a discount at the Colosseum.
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  17. #56
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    My response is no qualified with Ms. Warren's explanation.

    ---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------
    To be clear, you are not disputing or you disagree Ms Warren claimed minority status while at Harvard?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    My response is yes qualified with Ms. Warren's explanation.

    ---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------
    Again, just for clarity, you are disputing or you agree that she did not protest her minority status being used by Harvard. I appreciate you answered both questions, I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post

    Why are we at loggerheads? Who said DNA can't be used to establish NA ancestry?

    If one can't self-identify, how is it established? Is there a vote or something?
    I think you misread my statement. I said IF one cannot self identify then taking a DNA test is not relevant. Again, how are you attempting to defend Ms Warren if you are not aware of how NA tribes determine membership? This seems blatantly partisan on your part. I honestly think you should spend about 5 minutes googling it and then determine if you would still like to defend her.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Has she claimed to be NA or of NA ancestry?
    What's the difference? If she is claiming to be or to have some association with a NA tribe then she is crossing a line. Lots of otherwise European Americans have some trace amounts of NA blood. So, what exactly is she claiming and why? This has been the puzzle I've been trying to get you to face since the beginning. It does not make sense. If she accepts that she cannot self-identify, which is an odd position for a progressive to take, then her blood quantum isn't relevant (well not at 1/64 or whatever). If she accepts that self-identifying is not permitted, then she would have apologized and never taken the blood

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I disagree, I wouldn't say I'm Italian, that's misleading, I'm of Italian ancestry. You know there's no benefits to being Italian? Maybe there's a discount at the Colosseum.
    You personally may not feel it is ok. But no one would be upset if you did. The point here is there is no club or membership.
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    To be clear, you are not disputing or you disagree Ms Warren claimed minority status while at Harvard?


    Again, just for clarity, you are disputing or you agree that she did not protest her minority status being used by Harvard. I appreciate you answered both questions, I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly.
    My answer's are perfectly clear and supported.

    ---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I think you misread my statement. I said IF one cannot self identify then taking a DNA test is not relevant. Again, how are you attempting to defend Ms Warren if you are not aware of how NA tribes determine membership? This seems blatantly partisan on your part. I honestly think you should spend about 5 minutes googling it and then determine if you would still like to defend her.
    Don't have to. Ms. Warren never applied for membership.

    ---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    So, what exactly is she claiming and why?
    "Warren said she was "very proud" of her heritage and "very proud of the stories that my grandparents told me that my grandparents told my parents and my parents told my brothers and me."

    "Being Native American is part of who our family is and I'm glad to tell anyone about that. I am just very proud of it," Warren said.

    The candidate said Wednesday that she had never asked her relatives for documentation of her lineage, but when questioned by reporters if she regretted self-identifying as Native American, she recounted a story about her family's history with the culture.

    "No, as I said, these are my family stories. I have lived in a family that has talked about Native Americans, talked about tribes since I had been a little girl," she said. "I still have a picture on my mantel and it is a picture my mother had before that - a picture of my grandfather. And my Aunt Bea has walked by that picture at least a 1,000 times remarked that he - her father, my Papaw -- had high cheek bones like all of the Indians do. Because that is how she saw it and your mother got those same great cheek bones and I didn't. She that thought was the bad deal she had gotten in life."

    "Being Native American has been part of my story, I guess, since the day I was born," Warren continued."

    ---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    You personally may not feel it is ok. But no one would be upset if you did.
    How do you know that? There may be some benefit to being an Italian citizen I could apply for. No one would say a thing if I had never stepped foot in the country? Doubt it.
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    It seems like all the available evidence points to the conclusion that Warren simply believed her own family's statements regarding their heritage, and expressed being proud about in different ways and on many occasions throughout her life.
    While she definitely appears white and has very little NA genes according to the DNA test, this doesn't prove that she doesn't actually have NA heritage, nor does it in any way preclude her from believing her family's statements about her and discussing it openly.

    Further, the fact that she went through with the DNA test - especially without knowing how much of her DNA actually is NA - proves that her statements about her heritage were not made fraudulently.
    Since it has been supported that her statements about her ancestry were in no way utilized to forward her career, makes this whole thing a baseless witch hunt.

    Really, for a man who complains so much about witch hunts against himself, he sure seems willing to rile up his supporters into a witch hunt against Warren.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    @ future.
    First problem.. this isn't a witch Hunt. That would imply that there is no problem. However the problem has been pretty well evidenced, namely that she has appropriated for herself minority status that she does not deserve in the past.
    You can be very proud of you great, great aunt's nephew who married the second cusin of the sister of the divorced wife of a 1/16ths NA. But you can't claim to be one, or honestly allow yourself to be counted as one when you are in fact not. Which is what she is actually doing. Further the very statement t of being proud of such an abscure thing is hillariouse.
    .. it reminds me of a song...
    Lame claim to fame, by wierd Al.

    I agree that she believed her grandparents, but..apparently they were full of it.

    That her carrere was or was not actually forwarded, is not relevant because that is not what the outrage is about. She is claiming to herself an identy that she has no right to.

    At this point it is just commical to see the defense of her statements and past actions, as well as her actual claims continuing to be forwarded.
    To serve man.

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    she has appropriated for herself minority status that she does not deserve
    There's a difference between claiming minority status and claiming that one has NA ancestry based on what their family has told them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    But you can't claim to be one, or honestly allow yourself to be counted as one when you are in fact not. Which is what she is actually doing.
    She has pretty much come clean about her statements of having NA heritage, so your claim of "what she is actually doing" is completely false.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Further the very statement t of being proud of such an abscure thing is hillariouse.
    I guess you don't have any aspect of your heritage that you and your ancestors are proud of, obscure or not. In any case, this is irrelevant. Her statements about her family's NA heritage being something they were proud of support her belief that she had NA heritage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    That her carrere was or was not actually forwarded, is not relevant because that is not what the outrage is about.
    Sarah HS: "I think what most people find offensive is Sen. Warren lying about her heritage to advance her career". And later again, avoiding questions about Trump's use of "Pocahontas" being considered an offensive racial slur: "I think that Sen. Warren, ah, was very offensive when she lied about something specifically to advance her career."

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    At this point it is just commical to see the defense of her statements and past actions, as well as her actual claims continuing to be forwarded.
    She has already explained the reasoning behind her statements regarding her NA heritage.

    Again, the fact that she actually went through with the DNA test proves that her statements about her heritage were not made fraudulently. She genuinely believed that she had NA heritage, and when called on her statements, she provided DNA evidence proving that she does have NA heritage.

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