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  1. #81
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Why does the year an obviously false claim is made matter?
    One drop" is ridiculous.
    The tribes stop counting after 1/64th and EW is 1/1024. That said, even one drop means that she’s not totally lying. What’s lying is the Mormons claiming American Indians were descended from an Israelite tribe!


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  2. #82
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Why does the year an obviously false claim is made matter?
    One drop" is ridiculous.
    Maybe now, now that we have DNA testing.

    Also now that minorities have asserted the rights to their heritage and this thing isn't taken lightly anymore. Wasn't so then. As previously noted this has been a problem in the murky past - whether it was fraud or a problem of inter-generational telephone you have yet to even try to support.

    ---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    "There is also secondary source material." means nothing at all...
    I would expect you ignore evidence but nonetheless it exists in the form of a marriage being mentioned in a newspaper.

    Come to think of it the hack thing to do is to ignore any evidence - similar birth announcements of a recent president were similarly ignored.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  3. #83
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    The tribes stop counting after 1/64th and EW is 1/1024. That said, even one drop means that she’s not totally lying.
    It will never cease to amaze me how far liberals go to make sure they never do wrong...

    So ok, all life on Earth shares a common ancestry. I guess we should just change the definition, and let people pick their heritage as well as their gender.

    Life is all about choices.

    ---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Maybe now, now that we have DNA testing.
    It was the DNA testing that proved her heritage.

    ---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I would expect you ignore evidence
    I tire of you constantly berating your opponent. It shows shallow intellect to constantly comment on what you see as others deficiencies in a debate.

    You may note that the whole quote I was referring to:

    "Says you. In 2019. There is also secondary source material."

    lists no "material", just a claim there is some...

    ---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I would expect you ignore evidence but nonetheless it exists in the form of a marriage being mentioned in a newspaper.
    Wow!
    That little bit of evidence changes my mind completely. How could I have questioned:
    "a marriage being mentioned in a newspaper.."

    Very profound indeed.
    Thinking about it now, I can recall lots of people looking back 10-20 generations to find an obscure marriage and then claiming on Gov't forms that they WERE that race because of that marriage.

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  5. #84
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    It was the DNA testing that proved her heritage.
    1/3 of a century later after decades upon decades of family lore. As previously discussed this has been a big problem. Intentional fraud? Not.

    ---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    I tire of you constantly berating your opponent.
    Perhaps you need a nap. I look at ODN when I wake up.

    ---------- Post added at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post

    Very profound indeed.
    Thinking about it now, I can recall lots of people looking back 10-20 generations to find an obscure marriage and then claiming on Gov't forms that they WERE that race because of that marriage.
    So that doesn't seem that odd then. Does it?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  6. #85
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    1/3 of a century later after decades upon decades of family lore.
    A third of a century later, in October 2018, Warren tried to use DNA testing and a slickly produced propaganda piece to support her claim of being American Indian.

    "Some people have questioned my heritage and family history...not even the president of the United States will take it away from me."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHzbdZuVyAM

    So, wake up and smell the coffee. Warren's maintaining her claim to be an American Indian despite all evidence to the contrary proves she is a fraud through and through.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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  8. #86
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Warren's maintaining her claim to be an American Indian despite all evidence to the contrary proves she is a fraud through and through.
    Wrong. She's made no such claim recently and has never made any claim that benefited her (so there was no fraud). "all evidence" is not "to the contrary", just the opposite. It has illuminated the case and has supported her family history and heritage.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  9. #87
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Dude, that was the point of the whole video. She paid for a DNA test with results showing less than 1% American Indian heritage, and did her best to use it in support of her claim to be American Indian. No matter how much you say "nuh uh", that's the fact. If she were a Republican you'd be ripping her to shreds, but you're too blinded by political allegiance to look at her with any intellectual honestly. Take off the red colored glasses, admit she's a fraud, and earn yourself a sliver of credibility.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  10. #88
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Dude, that was the point of the whole video. She paid for a DNA test with results showing less than 1% American Indian heritage, and did her best to use it in support of her claim to be American Indian.
    Less than 1% is not 0% so her claim to have Indian ancestors is true. What’s the problem here? She’s not lying!


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  11. #89
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    Less than 1% is not 0% so her claim to have Indian ancestors is true. What’s the problem here? She’s not lying!
    By identifying as Native American she was deceptively claiming to have significantly more Indian ancestry than the general population.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  12. #90
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    By identifying as Native American she was deceptively claiming to have significantly more Indian ancestry than the general population.
    She identified as NA because she thought she had NA ancestry. The very fact that she was so ready to take the DNA test to prove her claim of NA ancestry, not knowing what the results would be, proves that she wasn't claiming it fraudulently, or with prior knowledge that she had very little NA DNA, or with the goal of claiming more NA DNA than she actually has, which I've already pointed out in this thread.

    You, even, need to take off your petty & poo-stained glasses and look at the facts: She claimed to have NA ancestry because that's what she had been told by her family throughout her youth. When questioned on it, she was fully ready to take a DNA test to prove her claim. She took the test, and it supported that she did have NA DNA, but considerably less than what her claims had made it seem. Someone who, for the whole time was intentionally claiming to have more NA DNA than they knowingly did (which is required for your charge of fraud), would not be so ready to take a DNA test.
    You keep claiming that the results of DNA test is proof of fraud, when the fact she took the test is actually proof of the opposite.

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  14. #91
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    By identifying as Native American she was deceptively claiming to have significantly more Indian ancestry than the general population.
    +1 for furureboy’s answer - and that’s my point too: you’re saying she is *currently* identifying as a NA rather than having done so in the past and is no longer.

    She did the smart thing taking the DNA test and owning the mistake. This will do her no political harm and only makes Trump look bad when he calls her Pocahontas.


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  16. #92
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    +1 for furureboy’s answer - and that’s my point too: you’re saying she is *currently* identifying as a NA rather than having done so in the past and is no longer.
    Guys, in the video referenced earlier, she did not apologize or admit she is not a native American. At that very recent point, not thirty years ago, she used DNA results to support her claim to be a Cherokee, even though the results showed she was no more indian than the average American. If you can't see and acknowledge that simple fact, then you're hopeless lost on this issue.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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  18. #93
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Guys, in the video referenced earlier, she did not apologize or admit she is not a native American. At that very recent point, not thirty years ago, she used DNA results to support her claim to be a Cherokee, even though the results showed she was no more indian than the average American. If you can't see and acknowledge that simple fact, then you're hopeless lost on this issue.
    Are you going to respond to the rebuttals to your charge that she fraudulently claimed to be NA?

  19. #94
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Guys, in the video referenced earlier, she did not apologize or admit she is not a native American. At that very recent point, not thirty years ago, she used DNA results to support her claim to be a Cherokee, even though the results showed she was no more indian than the average American. If you can't see and acknowledge that simple fact, then you're hopeless lost on this issue.
    You also need to stop parroting the "less than the average American" claim, which has been proven false: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.40a8816dfeb1
    "Warren’s Native American DNA, as identified in the test, may not be large, but it’s wrong to say it’s as little as 1/1024th or that it’s less than the average European American."

  20. #95
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by futureboy View Post
    You also need to stop parroting the "less than the average American" claim, which has been proven false: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.40a8816dfeb1
    "Warren’s Native American DNA, as identified in the test, may not be large, but it’s wrong to say it’s as little as 1/1024th or that it’s less than the average European American."
    I didn't say "less than". I said no more than the average American. Is she significantly more Native American? Absolutely not.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  21. #96
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I said no more than the average American. Is she significantly more Native American? Absolutely not.
    First of all, since you still haven't addressed the rebuttal to your claim that she was fraudulently saying she had NA ancestry, it will be considered retracted until you do so. The DNA study revealed that she had 10 times more NA ancestry than the sample set from Utah, and 12 times more than the sample set from Great Britain. So yes, she is more NA than the average American. Your claim that she has "no more than" is just as false as all the other petty republicans saying she has "less than". Your nit-picky claim that "not more than" is not the same as saying "less than" only further demonstrates that you still haven't removed your petty glasses. As per usual with you, it turns out there is little hope in getting you to look at the evidence objectively.

  22. #97
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by futureboy View Post
    First of all, since you still haven't addressed the rebuttal to your claim that she was fraudulently saying she had NA ancestry...
    I hadn't seen an effective rebuttal. But if you want a response, read below.

    Quote Originally Posted by futureboy View Post
    The DNA study revealed that she had 10 times more NA ancestry...
    Is that amount, from an ancestor probably eight generations back, significant enough for her to continue claiming to be Native American? No, it is not. So her video released just a few months ago, trying to support her claim, was deceptive and misleading.

    Quote Originally Posted by futureboy View Post
    Your claim that she has "no more than" is just as false as all the other petty republicans saying she has "less than". Your nit-picky claim that "not more than" is not the same as saying "less than" only further demonstrates...
    You put words in quotes and attributed them to me. What I said was different. That's all it demonstrates.
    Last edited by evensaul; February 26th, 2019 at 08:31 AM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  23. #98
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I hadn't seen an effective rebuttal. But if you want a response, read below.
    If you don't provide argumentation for why you think the rebuttal is ineffective, the rebuttal stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Is that amount, from an ancestor probably eight generations back, significant enough for her to continue claiming to be Native American?
    Please support that she continues to claim to "be Native American". She has explained the reasoning behind her belief that she had NA ancestry, and has supported that she does actually have NA ancestry.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You put words in quotes and attributed them to me. What I said was different. That's all it demonstrates.
    That doesn't change the fact that what you said was wrong - just as wrong as those who said she has "less than". Either address the rebuttal to your claim that she is no more NA than the average American, or retract the claim.

  24. #99
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by futureboy View Post
    Please support that she continues to claim to "be Native American".
    You've not rebutted my point that the October 15, 2018 video was an attempt to support her claim to be a Native American. It was a deceptive and misleading attempt to support a false claim. Again, that was just four months ago. Are you arguing that the passage of time, just four months, washes away the fraud?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  25. #100
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren: Cherokee or Fraud?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You've not rebutted my point that the October 15, 2018 video was an attempt to support her claim to be a Native American.
    You have not supported that she is even claiming to "be a Native American", let alone that the video was an attempt to support her claim to be NA. Again, please support that she continues to claim to "be a Native American". Then feel free to support that the video was "an attempt to support her claim to be a Native American".

    Since you have not responded regarding your claim that she is no more NA than the average American, am I correct in assuming you retract it? Please confirm.

 

 
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