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  1. #21
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Only way to do that is to include all the software and the database itself, which only I can do due to licensing issues.

    However, we have had some donations come in from a few members that have paid for the site to remain open through June 2019. That's 5 months (including this month). What can be done during that time is to use the search feature for your favorite posts and download the text of that post. Outside of that, there isn't much else that can be done.
    So... exactly how mad would you be if I wrote a webscraper that pulled all of the content off of ODN? TBH, I can pay for the extra bandwidth, if it becomes a concern.


    My thoughts as well. Although we can do some things to modernize it, I don't think lengthy, verbose posts that took sometimes hours to formulate are something that people are interested in any more. It's so "rapid-fire" now due to social media.
    I mean, I don't think this is a good thing. I think it's a travesty that you basically cannot have an intelligent discussion of weighty topics online without some imbecile jumping in. The appearance of Twitter woke culture, "classical liberals", and the alt-Right really just say it all about where we are in America right now with respect to rational discourse.


    This, more than any other principle is what we were after. I've looked back on ODN as well as my own education, that of my kids's then compare that to most kids or most people on modern political issues, and realize just how much of a difference there is between being told what to think vs someone learning how to think. The latter is so important for every person in every line of work, yet it just has no relevance seemingly, in today's society. It's quite depressing actually how many people just don't have a clue when it comes to understanding the ideas of "correct thinking" itself. And I don't think social media really allows for that since it encourages people to focus on quantity not quality. It is what it is. I'm an old man just saying "Get off my lawn!"
    I go back to that old quote by Asimov, paraphrased, "America has had a thread of anti-intellectualism running throughout it's history." People are on the whole quite happy being ignorant and belligerent. We live a world where everything is no consequences for as much fact-free beliefs as you want. So if you think global warming is a hoax or evolution is false or crystals can heal you or vaccines cause autism --there's no negative consequences. So people adorn ideologies like fashion symbols. Sadly, I do fear that in the not too distant future this will catch up with us.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

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  3. #22
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldPhoenix View Post
    So... exactly how mad would you be if I wrote a webscraper that pulled all of the content off of ODN? TBH, I can pay for the extra bandwidth, if it becomes a concern.
    I wouldn't mind, assuming the data collected was already public information. My only concern would be the server host thinking it's some form of attack or malware, so some details on how it would operate as well as when it would would be helpful (in case the host decides to suspend the site during the process thinking it's a security issue). Using an existing web scraper, such as web extensions, probably wouldn't cause much for alarm I don't think.


    I go back to that old quote by Asimov, paraphrased, "America has had a thread of anti-intellectualism running throughout it's history." People are on the whole quite happy being ignorant and belligerent. We live a world where everything is no consequences for as much fact-free beliefs as you want. So if you think global warming is a hoax or evolution is false or crystals can heal you or vaccines cause autism --there's no negative consequences. So people adorn ideologies like fashion symbols. Sadly, I do fear that in the not too distant future this will catch up with us.
    My wife and I are convinced that Idiocracy (the movie) was a prediction of what is to become. I think we are only a few generations from it being true.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




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  5. #23
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    I wouldn't mind, assuming the data collected was already public information. My only concern would be the server host thinking it's some form of attack or malware, so some details on how it would operate as well as when it would would be helpful (in case the host decides to suspend the site during the process thinking it's a security issue). Using an existing web scraper, such as web extensions, probably wouldn't cause much for alarm I don't think.
    I would use python/Selenium, spoof the request to look like it's coming from Chrome and Firefox, and rate limit it to aperidic collection intervals and put further a max limit to say, <2,000 requests an hour. It'd be nearly impossible to detect. Don't you just love Python?

    My wife and I are convinced that Idiocracy (the movie) was a prediction of what is to become. I think we are only a few generations from it being true.
    For real.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  6. #24
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldPhoenix View Post
    I would use python/Selenium, spoof the request to look like it's coming from Chrome and Firefox, and rate limit it to aperidic collection intervals and put further a max limit to say, <2,000 requests an hour. It'd be nearly impossible to detect. Don't you just love Python?
    That's fine then. I see no problem with it. I appreciate you asking.

    I've scratched the surface on Python a month or so go, from a course on Udemy.com. I'm not sure I'll continue with it. Currently I'm focusing on C# and Unity as I want to create a logic / fallacy app. I think Unity might be the best platform for that.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




  7. #25
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    That's fine then. I see no problem with it. I appreciate you asking.
    n/p

    I've scratched the surface on Python a month or so go, from a course on Udemy.com. I'm not sure I'll continue with it. Currently I'm focusing on C# and Unity as I want to create a logic / fallacy app. I think Unity might be the best platform for that.
    I'm extremely fond of Python. I have heard good things about C#, but ultimately I really just don't like working with most Microsoft products. I've coded in C++, I've coded in Matlab, a bit in Java, I've coded a tiny bit in JavaScript, and had to code once in VisualBasic.

    I would say that Python and C++ are the only ones I've enjoyed coding in.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  8. #26
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    This is sad news. :(

    I still browse ODN from time to time and still love the place. It will be sad to see it go.

    How big is the database? Ever considered moving it's hosting to a cheaper hosting provider? I developed quite a few sites, but surely not one with a database the size of ODN.

    $20 is about R280 p/month in SA. Which comes down to R3 360 per annum. One service provider I use charges R99 p/month for uncapped linux hosting. That boils down to $7,07 p/month.

    There is so much info on this site. It is like an online library for anything debate related.
    >>]Aspoestertjie[<<

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  9. #27
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Has anyone paid for March?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  10. #28
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Has anyone paid for March?
    Hi Cowboy, yes March it taken care of. The site is covered thru June thanks to different ODN members -- but pleeeeeease feel free to make a donation to cover July and/or August.

    I told Apok I would take the responsibility to remind ODN members to donate toward the hosting so that it is covered for the rest of year. So thank you for asking!

    It's $20/month.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by eye4magic; February 23rd, 2019 at 12:51 AM.
    "The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” --"The Mental Universe” | Nature
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  11. #29
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Do people really use ODN as a sort of reference library?

    While the archives are interesting, I'm generally only interested in current discussions with people. Its the interaction that I like in a debate. For long term thought storage, I think essays and the like make a lot more sense.

    So for me at least, the real value in the site is as a forum, not as an archive.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  12. #30
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    [QUOTE=eye4magic;563999]This is great. The $ shouldn't be a problem going forward as long as we know where we are at. Is there a simple way we can be kept abreast?

    We will use this thread to keep ODN informed for now.
    Last edited by eye4magic; February 25th, 2019 at 12:36 PM.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  13. #31
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    This is great. The $ shouldn't be a problem going forward as long as we know where we are at. Is there a simple way we can be kept abreast?

    Sorry Cowboy, I accidentally wrote over your full message.


    Anyway, we can use this thread to keep ODN members informed for now.
    "The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual.” --"The Mental Universe” | Nature
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  14. #32
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by eye4magic View Post
    Sorry Cowboy, I accidentally wrote over your full message.


    Anyway, we can use this thread to keep ODN members informed for now.
    That's fine. I just feel that when it's going around that "the end is near" activity falls right off. No one is going to invest time or bother in a site that is dead or about to die. What just happened shows that people will donate to keep it going and activity will rise.

    Could we also get some type of idea as to activity? Does anyone track it?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  15. #33
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    That's fine. I just feel that when it's going around that "the end is near" activity falls right off. No one is going to invest time or bother in a site that is dead or about to die. What just happened shows that people will donate to keep it going and activity will rise.
    It seems to me that "the end is near" actually lit a fire under some folks, me included, to participate a bit more before it goes away.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  16. #34
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    It seems to me that "the end is near" actually lit a fire under some folks, me included, to participate a bit more before it goes away.
    Oh, I agree. I'm just saying do we need to get to that point again? I had no idea how little it costs when you spread it amongst all of us freeloaders and how it was a drain on Apok.

    Not to mention there's no resources for expansion or upgrades.

    Let us know where we're at and we'll chip in. Apok shouldn't have to come and ask.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  17. #35
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    Re: ODN Update / Changes

    Well, I am glad it is going to be up a little while longer. I’ve checked out some other debate sites and...to put it gently...their quality is subpar. At best, they are sometimes better than the quality of the arguments you get on Facebook.

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