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  1. #21
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    @ cowboy, untill you show someone anyone relevant to the debate of proposing tax IDs. Your assertion that it is based I racism is simply not supported and sounds more like wako left wing propaganda.
    I just want people to identify that they are indeed eligible to vote. The accusation that minorities are disnenfranchises seems ridiculous, as they are not currently tly disenfranchised from drinking which requires an ID. I am not for such an ID having a cost, it should be part of the already robust driving ID.

    So the lonly "proof" so far is that dems and left wakos we want to name call and demonize their opponents.
    To serve man.

  2. #22
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    @ cowboy, untill you show someone anyone relevant to the debate of proposing tax IDs. Your assertion that it is based I racism is simply not supported and sounds more like wako left wing propaganda.
    I already did with my support in post 20...even with the goal posts moved.

    ---------- Post added at 01:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    So the lonly "proof" so far is that dems and left wakos we want to name call and demonize their opponents.
    Yes, disgusting racists should be identified - whether through their words or actions - wherever they are.

    ---------- Post added at 01:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    I just want people to identify that they are indeed eligible to vote. The accusation that minorities are disnenfranchises seems ridiculous, as they are not currently tly disenfranchised from drinking which requires an ID. I am not for such an ID having a cost, it should be part of the already robust driving ID.
    Apples and oranges, nobody above the legal age is disenfranchised from buying alcohol. You don't have to be a citizen or even show an ID to buy alcohol - they can ask for it but don't have to. Why would you bother to ID a senior citizen? Your analogy is ridiculous.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  3. #23
    ODN Community Regular

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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    First, you conflate culture with individuals. They are not the same. One can respect the equality of every man, but recognize that the cultures they live in are unequal. Some cultures are clearly inferior to others.
    When you say "We don't want to let those Muslims in here!" you are judging all Muslims that could be let in based on their membership of a culture. That is bigotry. You are not judging them as individuals but as members of an overarching group. So don't tell me I'm confused about individuals vs cultures. Bigotry is when you judge members of a group as inferior for belonging to that group.

    Second, you're trying to argue that the labeling of any culture as inferior is unacceptable [I]by pointing to a historical culture you abhor! The culture Hitler created in the Third Reich, as you pointed out, is not equal to other cultures:
    I am bigoted against Nazis, I'm happy to be so. The ideology is abhorant to me. Are you willing to admit you are biggoted agaisnt Muslims?

    Third, you are engaging in a culture war right here, with your post, taking a position deep in the heart of PC modern culture against my position in support of a cultural view that you oppose.
    I've always disliked racists, nationalists, elitists and other assholes who don't treat peaceful people as equal human beings. That's got nothing to do with PC culture, it's American culture.

    And finally, as ODN winds down, after you've been debating here ten years, you have to resort to Reductio ad Hitlerim fallacy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
    Sure, go with the classics I say. But it is not a fallacy. Biggotry is directly related to Hitler as he stands as the marked example of bigotry turned into government policy. American Slavery is another. So in a discussion of racism and bigotry, Hitler is a good anchor point of bad behavior. Hiters hatred of the Jews was justified by detailed arguments as to their inferiority. So if your argument is it is not bigotry if it is justified, you are making the same argument that Hitler did when he justified the Holocaust. You, of course are not arguing for a holocaust, but your argument is no defense that your take is moral.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  4. #24
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    When you say "We don't want to let those Muslims in here!" you are judging all Muslims that could be let in based on their membership of a culture. That is bigotry.
    Not if your definition of bigotry includes hatred or a belief in inferiority of certain people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    You are not judging them as individuals but as members of an overarching group.
    I believe that each and every Muslim is worthy of respect just as any Christian, Hindu or atheist, because all men are created equal in the image of God the Father. It is not my place to judge them as people. That is the Lord's domain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    So don't tell me I'm confused about individuals vs cultures.
    I think you are over-generalizing in your rush to condemn. Your mis-characterizations of my position may be from ignorance, or it may be willful. I don't know. But your knee-jerk reaction without seeking to first understand the reasons for my position demonstrates your own intolerance well enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Bigotry is when you judge members of a group as inferior for belonging to that group.
    I do not think Muslims are inferior as individuals, but rather they have been sadly misled into a religion that denies Jesus Christ as Savior. And much more important to the issue of immigration, as members of Islam, Muslims are members of a political movement, not just a religion. When practiced according to the teachings of the Koran, Islam seeks to take control of government and forcibly convert or execute non-muslims. Those facts make Islam incompatible with a democratic republic such as we have in the United States. Because Islam is a dangerous political ideology wrapped in a religion, our government should deny immigration to Muslims in the same way it denies entry to Communists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I've always disliked racists, nationalists, elitists and other assholes who don't treat peaceful people as equal human beings. That's got nothing to do with PC culture, it's American culture.
    Islam is inherently dangerous to citizens of the United States. Our government has a responsibility and a long history of implementing effective immigration policies to protect the American people. As examples, those who are sick with communicable diseases are denied entry, as are previously mentioned Communists. We have long primarily accepted refugees and other immigrants from Western Europe who would readily assimilate into the "melting pot", and who were not dangerous to our own citizens and the Republic. THAT is American culture and history, Sig, and it has proven very effective over the past two hundred years in protecting the American people. It is unfortunate that you and those on your side of the issue do not appreciate the realities of safe immigration policy.

    Read this article published today about how some Muslim fathers teach their young children to be jihadists, and tell me the culture and religion they are members of is morally acceptable to you.
    https://www.france24.com/en/20181117...training-jihad
    And then explain to me why we should risk letting people from that culture and religion into our country.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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