Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 156
  1. #81
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    It isn't racist... to make fun of Elizabeth Warren's claim of American Indian heritage by calling her Pocahontas.
    Is that why Pocahontas existed? For you to score political points. Not only is it racist it is despicable and disgusting. You really should be ashamed of yourself.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #82
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Is it possible for you to debate without trolling the left? If so, please do so.
    Why should I?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    And I was addressing intent. If one utters a racist slur publicly that means that either they are intending to cause racial offense or they don't care if they cause racial offense. Either way, they are disrespecting people of other races.
    You're a mind reader now? You're absolutely sure that everyone who ever uses the N word does so with racist intent? I call BS. And how is the N word relevant to Pocahontas?

    ---------- Post added at 08:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Not only is it racist it is despicable and disgusting.
    Support the claim that it is racist.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  3. #83
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,687
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Why should I?
    1. It's a crappy way to debate. It's annoying and does not forward the debate. Likewise to say that "the left" does something because I allegedly do is to engage in the hasty generalization fallacy so it also makes you look bad.
    2. Trolling is against ODN rules. I haven't reported you for it but that might happen if you keep doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You're a mind reader now? You're absolutely sure that everyone who ever uses the N word does so with racist intent? I call BS.
    I didn't say that.

    I said that if one utters a racial slur PUBLICLY, they are either:
    1. Trying to cause racial offense
    2. Unconcerned if they cause racial offense.

    BOTH show racism.

    And beyond that, you are shifting the burden. Your argument is that it's not racist for him to do that. While I agree that that not every utterance of a racial slur indicates racism, it's your argument that in this specific case, it's not racism which means you need to support that before I need to support the opposing conclusion.

    So I am not forwarding what's above for support but just to explain why I disagree with your assessment. So please support that Trump was not being racist in this particular instance.


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    And how is the N word relevant to Pocahontas?
    They are both racial slurs. In support:

    "Pocahontas is used a racial slur in the United States all the time," Andrew Curley, a postdoctoral fellow in geography at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a citizen of the Navajo Nation, told Newsweek.

    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-pocah...al-slur-723858
    Last edited by mican333; August 27th, 2019 at 12:44 PM.

  4. #84
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Support the claim that it is racist.
    The reference is using a historic American Indian figure as a derogatory insult and that’s insulting to all American Indians,” Norwood told the network, adding that Trump should "stop using our historical people of significance as a racial slur against one of his opponents.”
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ise/902837001/

    Shame on you for thinking otherwise.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  5. #85
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    1. It's a crappy way to debate. It's annoying and does not forward the debate. Likewise to say that "the left" does something because I allegedly do is to engage in the hasty generalization fallacy so it also makes you look bad.
    2. Trolling is against ODN rules. I haven't reported you for it but that might happen if you keep doing it.
    Well, here's the deal Mican. This thread is about how the LEFT uses accusations of racism as a cudgel to whack any person displaying behavior or beliefs that the LEFT doesn't like. It's a cheap, easy and generally effective way for the LEFT to silence people on the opposing side, and to peel away support for politicians, policies and political ideologies that don't square with the beliefs and objectives of the LEFT. That's why people on the LEFT use it so consistently and so broadly. So, Mican, I'm going to keep mentioning the LEFT in this thread, while giving examples of the LEFT's bogus claims of racism. You go ahead and report it if you like. We'll see how far that gets you.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I said that if one utters a racial slur PUBLICLY, they are either:
    1. Trying to cause racial offense
    2. Unconcerned if they cause racial offense.

    BOTH show racism.
    More BS. Racism isn't defined by perception. It is defined by intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    And beyond that, you are shifting the burden. Your argument is that it's not racist for him to do that. While I agree that that not every utterance of a racial slur indicates racism, it's your argument that in this specific case, it's not racism which means you need to support that before I need to support the opposing conclusion.
    No, I don't believe that is true. The default is that a person or behavior or word is NOT racist, until it is proven to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    They are both racial slurs. In support:

    "Pocahontas is used a racial slur in the United States all the time," Andrew Curley, a postdoctoral fellow in geography at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a citizen of the Navajo Nation, told Newsweek.

    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-pocah...al-slur-723858
    You've got one support from one individual who, from what I can find, is a native american activist without any real credentials.

    In opposition, I offer the fact that there is no huge uproar from the native american population denouncing Trump for his use of the name Pocahontas. (Contrast that with what the reaction would be from all over the country if he called one person a nigger.) It just isn't happening. And there hasn't been any historical evidence offered to support the claim that using the name Pocahontas is a racial slur. Nothing. The overwhelming lack of evidence for your argument is evidence that usage of Pocahontas as a slur is not widespread or widely known, if it exists at all.

    ---------- Post added at 06:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ise/902837001/

    Shame on you for thinking otherwise.
    You got one guy who calls it a slur, and one guy who says Trump shouldn't have used the name to criticize Warren during the ceremony but says using it would be appropriate use out in the political world:

    "“This was a day to honor them, and to insert something like that — the word ‘Pocahontas’ as a jab to a senator — you know, that belongs on the campaign trail,” Begaye said, according to Politico. “That doesn’t belong in the room when our war heroes are being honored.”


    Seems to me that's a wash, Cowboy. You got nothing, just like others on the Left who use charges of supposed racism as a "shame on you" attack.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  6. #86
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,687
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Well, here's the deal Mican. This thread is about how the LEFT uses accusations of racism as a cudgel to whack any person displaying behavior or beliefs that the LEFT doesn't like. It's a cheap, easy and generally effective way for the LEFT to silence people on the opposing side, and to peel away support for politicians, policies and political ideologies that don't square with the beliefs and objectives of the LEFT. That's why people on the LEFT use it so consistently and so broadly. So, Mican, I'm going to keep mentioning the LEFT in this thread, while giving examples of the LEFT's bogus claims of racism. You go ahead and report it if you like. We'll see how far that gets you.
    I'm not taking you to task for mentioning or criticizing the left. I'm taking you to task for trolling the left, which is against ODN rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    More BS. Racism isn't defined by perception. It is defined by intent.
    And my argument is about intent. If you intend to cause racial offense or don't care if you do, that shows racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    No, I don't believe that is true. The default is that a person or behavior or word is NOT racist, until it is proven to be.
    Nope. If we truly don't whether the person's motivation is racist, the default is we don't know if he's being racist, not that he's not racist.

    So you have the burden to support that he's not racist since that is your argument.



    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You've got one support from one individual who, from what I can find, is a native american activist without any real credentials.
    Then how about this>

    John Norwood, general secretary of the Alliance of Colonial Era Tribes, told NBC News Trump's use of the name to mock Sen. Elizabeth Warren "smacks of racism."

    “The reference is using a historic American Indian figure as a derogatory insult and that’s insulting to all American Indians,” Norwood told the network, adding that Trump should "stop using our historical people of significance as a racial slur against one of his opponents.”


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ise/902837001/

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    In opposition, I offer the fact that there is no huge uproar from the native american population denouncing Trump for his use of the name Pocahontas. (Contrast that with what the reaction would be from all over the country if he called one person a nigger.) It just isn't happening. And there hasn't been any historical evidence offered to support the claim that using the name Pocahontas is a racial slur. Nothing. The overwhelming lack of evidence for your argument is evidence that usage of Pocahontas as a slur is not widespread or widely known, if it exists at all.
    Ignoring my evidence does not invalidate it.

    And it not being as bad as the N-word does not mean that it's not racist.

  7. #87
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by ;567217
    If you intend to cause racial offense...
    Nope. The LEFT works real hard to cause racial offense through bogus charges of racism. Does that make the LEFT racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ;567217
    ... or don't care if you do, that shows racism.
    More fiction. Indifference does not indicate racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;567217
    Nope. If we truly don't whether the person's motivation is racist, the default is we don't know if he's being racist, not that he's not racist.

    So you have the burden to support that he's not racist since that is your argument.
    Well then we'll just disagree on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;567217
    Then how about this...
    Already offered by Cowboy. See the rebuttal to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;567217
    And it not being as bad as the N-word does not mean that it's not racist.
    I believe you're the one who offered use of the word nigger for comparison with use of the name Pocahontas. If you want to withdraw that comparison, fine.

    Oh, dear me. I used the actual word "nigger" instead of "N-word". I guess my indifference to your possible feelings of offense means that my use of the word is racist. But wait. What if someone is offended by your usage of "N-word" because they know it means n*****. Does that mean you should stop using it, and use some other word? And maybe I shouldn't even have typed n*****, because someone might be offended at that. Oh boy, I'm not sure what I should do now to make sure there is no possibility of anyone being offended. Because, you know, if I'm indifferent to the possibility of offending someone then that makes me a racist. And you too. So, we better figure out how to refer to that word in a way that can't possibly offend anyone.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  8. #88
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post

    You got one guy who calls it a slur, and one guy who says Trump shouldn't have used the name to criticize Warren during the ceremony but says using it would be appropriate use out in the political world:

    "“This was a day to honor them, and to insert something like that — the word ‘Pocahontas’ as a jab to a senator — you know, that belongs on the campaign trail,” Begaye said, according to Politico. “That doesn’t belong in the room when our war heroes are being honored.”


    Seems to me that's a wash, Cowboy. You got nothing, just like others on the Left who use charges of supposed racism as a "shame on you" attack.
    Your selective editing is, well, expected:

    Navajo Nation President Russell Begaye told CNN that the aside was "uncalled for," particularly in that setting.
    He didn't say it was ok to use. Shame.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  9. #89
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    "Uncalled for" doesn't equate to racist. Your "support" is weeeeeeak, so all you can resort to is saying "shame". NOT gonna work here.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  10. #90
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,687
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Nope. The LEFT works real hard to cause racial offense through bogus charges of racism. Does that make the LEFT racist?
    I disagree with your assessment of The LEFT and therefore reject the statement in general.

    Nor does that rebut that if one is saying something with the intent to cause racial offense, they are being racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    More fiction. Indifference does not indicate racism.
    If you utter a racial slur with full knowledge that people who the slur applies to will hear it and be racially offended by it, then you are being racially insensitive and therefore racist, regardless of whether you are saying it with the intent to cause offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Well then we'll just disagree on that.
    So you disagree that whoever makes an argument has the initial burden to support it?



    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Already offered by Cowboy. See the rebuttal to him.
    Your tactic of just ignoring support does not invalidate it. So my support stands until you offer ME a valid rebuttal to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I believe you're the one who offered use of the word nigger for comparison with use of the name Pocahontas. If you want to withdraw that comparison, fine.
    They are comparable. One is just worse than the other which explains the differing reactions to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Oh, dear me. I used the actual word "nigger" instead of "N-word". I guess my indifference to your possible feelings of offense means that my use of the word is racist. But wait. What if someone is offended by your usage of "N-word" because they know it means n*****. Does that mean you should stop using it, and use some other word? And maybe I shouldn't even have typed n*****, because someone might be offended at that. Oh boy, I'm not sure what I should do now to make sure there is no possibility of anyone being offended. Because, you know, if I'm indifferent to the possibility of offending someone then that makes me a racist. And you too. So, we better figure out how to refer to that word in a way that can't possibly offend anyone.
    Actually, this isn't too complex. Regarding what you should or should not say and when you should/shouldn't say it, just get a good idea of who is within earshot and how likely they would be offended if it's said. If you want to quote a scene from Blazing Saddles that uses that word and you know the people around you won't be offended (maybe there's a black guy around that you KNOW is fine if you present it as a movie quote), then go ahead and say it.

    But if you know that it will cause racial offense and you likewise care if a black person is offended, then don't say it. And if you don't care if you cause a black person racial offense, then you are racially insensitive.

    This really isn't rocket science.
    Last edited by mican333; August 28th, 2019 at 01:20 PM.

  11. #91
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    This really isn't rocket science.
    That's the only sentence you've written that makes any sense. And following is how that best applies on the issue of "Pocahontas".

    There are more than 300 million people in the United States. You, Cowboy and the entire media have found how many people who say that using the name is racist? TWO. Let's say there are one hundred times that many that the media hasn't been able to dig up for a quote. And let's go a little higher. Make it 300 out of 300 million, or .0001% of the population. I'm not ignoring your support, Mican. I'm laughing at how pitiful it is. I'm not ignoring it, I'm easily smashing it because it is so incredibly weak.

    Let's go back to June 2016, when Trump first began calling Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas". Did the media describe it as a racist slur? No. Did democrats label it as racism? No. Did any native americans immediately object? No. Did ANYONE think it was a racial slur? Not that I can find.

    Instead, Chris Cilizza at CNN marveled at how Trump was the best troll in politics, equating his use of "Pocahontas" with "Low Energy Jeb", "Crooked Hillary" and others: https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/polit...nra/index.html And the Washington Post did their best to explain why Trump was using the name Pocahontas for Warren: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...en-pocahontas/ Not even a hint from either of them that using the name Pocahontas was offensive. The Post summarizes "The Bottom Line: Trump is resurfacing an issue that has been researched extensively by The Fact Checker and many other news outlets, who all came to the same conclusion: There is no documented proof of Warren’s self-proclaimed, partial Native American heritage, which experts have noted is difficult to prove to begin with. Warren has maintained since 2012 that this is an issue of family lore." See if you can find any articles from the first few weeks of June 2016 that bring up racism as a serious explanation for Trump trolling Warren with "Pocahontas".

    Only later, after Warren suggested that Trump's labeling of her as Pocahontas was racist, other democrats followed, and the liberal media joined in did they manage to find a couple native american's to say that using Pocahontas is offensive to native americans. Big effing deal. Again, .0001% of the population is nothing. And yet, Warren, democrats and the media continue to repeat the claim that Trump is racist, for referring to Warren as Pocahontas, among other things, because that's politics. Why? Not because using "Pocahontas" is racist, but because it is effective. They are willing to manufacture claims of racism where there is no evidence, in order to drive Trumps approvals down and blunt the effectiveness of the label. Period. There is no evidence to support any other conclusion. It really isn't rocket science.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  12. #92
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,687
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    That's the only sentence you've written that makes any sense. And following is how that best applies on the issue of "Pocahontas".

    There are more than 300 million people in the United States. You, Cowboy and the entire media have found how many people who say that using the name is racist? TWO. Let's say there are one hundred times that many that the media hasn't been able to dig up for a quote. And let's go a little higher. Make it 300 out of 300 million, or .0001% of the population. I'm not ignoring your support, Mican. I'm laughing at how pitiful it is. I'm not ignoring it, I'm easily smashing it because it is so incredibly weak.
    Only if you use flawed logic to "smash it". Are you assuming that because I've presented what you estimate to represent 300 people, that's ALL that consider it racist and everyone else doesn't think that? That's a huge leap and an extreme logical flaw. Do you claim to speak for the 99.9999% or know what they think on the issue. Your rebuttal is laughable and doesn't smash my argument at all.

    But nonetheless, I'll provide more convincing support:

    "Donald Trump’s repeated use of the name “Pocahontas” as part of an attack on Democrat Elizabeth Warren has been condemned as “an insult for political gain”, by the country’s largest indigenous rights groups.

    On Wednesday, the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI), which describes itself as the oldest and largest indigenous rights organisation in the US, formally criticised Mr Trump, saying his actions were part of a long tradition of insults endured by Native Americans and other indigenous groups."


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...en-pocahontas/

    So to be clear, this amply supports that it's the general position of Native Americans that the use of that word to be insulting to native Americans. This is not coming from one particular guy but a group that represents native Americans and indicates that it's a general consensus amongst Native Americans that the term is racist. If a group finds a certain term that refers to them to be racist, then it's pretty much a racist term. If white uniformly decided that the N-word is not racist, the fact that blacks do consider it racist means it's still racist.

    So I think this point is settled.


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Let's go back to June 2016, when Trump first began calling Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas". Did the media describe it as a racist slur? No. Did democrats label it as racism? No. Did any native americans immediately object? No. Did ANYONE think it was a racial slur? Not that I can find.
    So because you are unaware of early complaints of racism, that is support that such complaints did not occur? Forwarding that is a clear example of the argument from ignorance fallacy.

    While I can't place exact dates, I've heard complains that it's racist coming from "the left" pretty much as soon as I heard Trump use it. And since I likely listen to leftist media more than you, I trust what I heard more than what you didn't hear.



    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Instead, Chris Cilizza at CNN marveled at how Trump was the best troll in politics, equating his use of "Pocahontas" with "Low Energy Jeb", "Crooked Hillary" and others: https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/polit...nra/index.html And the Washington Post did their best to explain why Trump was using the name Pocahontas for Warren: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...en-pocahontas/ Not even a hint from either of them that using the name Pocahontas was offensive. The Post summarizes "The Bottom Line: Trump is resurfacing an issue that has been researched extensively by The Fact Checker and many other news outlets, who all came to the same conclusion: There is no documented proof of Warren’s self-proclaimed, partial Native American heritage, which experts have noted is difficult to prove to begin with. Warren has maintained since 2012 that this is an issue of family lore." See if you can find any articles from the first few weeks of June 2016 that bring up racism as a serious explanation for Trump trolling Warren with "Pocahontas".

    Only later, after Warren suggested that Trump's labeling of her as Pocahontas was racist, other democrats followed, and the liberal media joined in did they manage to find a couple native american's to say that using Pocahontas is offensive to native americans. Big effing deal. Again, .0001% of the population is nothing. And yet, Warren, democrats and the media continue to repeat the claim that Trump is racist, for referring to Warren as Pocahontas, among other things, because that's politics. Why? Not because using "Pocahontas" is racist, but because it is effective. They are willing to manufacture claims of racism where there is no evidence, in order to drive Trumps approvals down and blunt the effectiveness of the label. Period. There is no evidence to support any other conclusion. It really isn't rocket science.
    I can accept that argument that Trump's initial reasoning for calling Warren "Pocahontas" was not to offend native Americans but just to score some political points against Warren (note - I am not conceding that point but just not challenging it at this time and might argue against it later). But that doesn't change the fact that it's a racial slur. And I can even accept that Trump was ignorant that it was offensive to natives when he first started using the term so he AT FIRST he neither intended to cause racial offense or was indifferent to whether he did (which doesn't mean that is the case but just that it's feasible that it is). But one cannot remain ignorant forever and now he has to know that it's considered a racial slur by Native Americans. The largest Native American group has said that they consider it racist.

    So now there is no excuse to continue to use it. He has to know that Native Americans consider it a racial slur and take offense when he uses it. If he cares about racially offending them, he will cease to use it. If he doesn't care about racial offense and continues to use it despite NOW knowing that it's a racial slur against Native Americans, he is being racist.

    So currently, it IS racist for him to do that. And likely he's used it in the more recent past knowing that it was considered a slur by Natives and used it anyway and therefore was being racist then.
    Last edited by mican333; August 29th, 2019 at 05:27 AM.

  13. #93
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    "Uncalled for" doesn't equate to racist. Your "support" is weeeeeeak, so all you can resort to is saying "shame". NOT gonna work here.
    Sure it does. Begaye clearly didn't want it around something concerning Native Americans. That he could care less about non-tribal related matters is irrelevant. I met my burden of support. What it is is NOT a wash in any way.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  14. #94
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Sure it does. Begaye clearly didn't want it around something concerning Native Americans. That he could care less about non-tribal related matters is irrelevant. I met my burden of support. What it is is NOT a wash in any way.
    The fact that the guy is offended by use of the name Pocahontas as a jab at Warren does not make it racist. Here's a City of Dallas government official who thinks use of the scientific term "black hole" is offensive towards blacks. https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comm...es_are_racist/ Does that make using "black hole" in conversation a racist term? Of course not. Only an idiot would think so. And, frankly, I think the same thing about anyone who truly believes (not just for political purposes) that calling Warren "Pocahontas" is racist. There is no evidence that use of that name suggests a race of people is inferior. It isn't even disparaging towards native americans. At all. It is disparaging of Warren, only, because she claimed to be a native american. It isn't racist just because some people think it is inappropriate.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  15. #95
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    10,749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Not to get involved here, but I thought I would point out that Warren only started being called Pocahontas when Trump started saying that term. And he only seems to have said it, imo, because he didn't understand the original joke, which was to call her Fauxahontas. IE she was pretending to be Native American. Just thought I would throw it out there.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  16. #96
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Mican, absense of evidence is not always a fallacy. You need to support how it applies to the lack of evidence on Pocahontas having been a racial slur in the past. Otherwise, your claim will be ignored.

    Now, rather than do a line by line response, I'm going to return to a question I've asked you and never received an adequate response: What definition of racism are you using? Here's what I find when I google the definition of racism, and I think it is accurate (emphasis mine):

    rac·ism
    /ˈrāˌsizəm/
    Learn to pronounce
    noun
    prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
    "a program to combat racism"
    synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More
    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    Your use of the word racism does not fit that definition in any way. You seem to conflate racism with insensitivity, rudeness and causing offense. It doesn't mean that. You and the rest of the Left use racism as a catch-all basket for any offending speech or behavior that is associated with race. That's not going to work with me here.

    A word doesn't magically become racist just because a few people claim that it is. And continuing to use that word or name doesn't become racist just because you label it that way. There is a political effort to make using Pocahontas a racist word to blunt the devastating effectiveness of Trump using it to tag Warren as a fraud, so the Left must play the racism card, and find willing native americans to get with the program. That's all there is to this. Nothing more and nothing less.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  17. #97
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,926
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    It is disparaging of Warren, only, because she claimed to be a native american.
    I'll ask again, is that why Pocahontas existed? So you can use her as a political punchline? It is demeaning of her and all Native Americans since it denigrates a commuity with serious problems.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  18. #98
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I'll ask again, is that why Pocahontas existed?
    So you can use her as a political punchline?
    Nope. So what?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    It is demeaning of her and all Native Americans since it denigrates a commuity with serious problems.
    How, exactly, is it denigrating to all Native Americans?
    Last edited by evensaul; August 29th, 2019 at 10:51 AM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  19. #99
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    10,687
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Mican, absense of evidence is not always a fallacy. You need to support how it applies to the lack of evidence on Pocahontas having been a racial slur in the past. Otherwise, your claim will be ignored.
    That's not the argument you were using the fallacy on. It was the argument that people did not call Trump's use "racist" when he first started using it. That claim will be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Now, rather than do a line by line response
    In other words, rather than addressing most of your argument and leaving it unrebutted....


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I'm going to return to a question I've asked you and never received an adequate response: What definition of racism are you using? Here's what I find when I google the definition of racism, and I think it is accurate (emphasis mine):

    rac·ism
    /ˈrāˌsizəm/
    Learn to pronounce
    noun
    prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
    "a program to combat racism"
    synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More
    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    Your use of the word racism does not fit that definition in any way.
    Nope. If you go back and address my actual argument, you will see that I have supported that Pocahontis is a racial slur. Or are you arguing that racial slurs don't qualify as racism per that definition?



    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You seem to conflate racism with insensitivity, rudeness and causing offense. It doesn't mean that. You and the rest of the Left use racism as a catch-all basket for any offending speech or behavior that is associated with race. That's not going to work with me here.
    Aaaaaand now we are back to misrepresenting my argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    A word doesn't magically become racist just because a few people claim that it is.
    And in my last post, I amply supported that it's pretty much the consensus of Native Americans that the term is racist.

    So I think it's time you go back and respond to the argument I actually made instead of creating your own straw man version of it and attacking that.

    I'll address your rebuttal to my argument when you actually rebut the argument I made.

  20. #100
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Mican, when you give me your definition of racism, and the source, we can proceed. Otherwise, there is no point in continuing. Your choice.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

 

 
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. There is no racist, like a Liberal racist
    By Someguy in forum Shootin' the Breeze / Off-Topic
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: January 14th, 2014, 05:45 AM
  2. Is this racist?
    By Prime Zombie in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: July 29th, 2010, 03:56 PM
  3. I Guess I'm A Racist
    By Loller65 in forum Shootin' the Breeze / Off-Topic
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 8th, 2009, 04:53 AM
  4. A Racist Leader?
    By Silence in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: January 28th, 2008, 03:18 PM
  5. Was this racist?
    By cat's meow in forum Current Events
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 10th, 2006, 02:04 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •