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  1. #141
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    And...

    Racial profiling as generally practiced in the United States is not racism. It isn't racist to note that most crimes of certain types are committed by individuals of a certain race, gender and age.

    It isn't racist to do a careful airport screening of young Arabic men boarding planes, and not as carefully screen old white women. Old white women are unlikely to hijack planes and fly them into office buildings, or carry bombs in their shoes.

    It isn't racism to stop cars filled with Hispanics moving north away from the southern border with Mexico.

    I live in an area where there are frequent thefts from automobiles by people who walk around late at night testing door handles. Every surveillance video I've seen from home cameras shows the perps to be black and hispanic teens. Would it be racist for police to stop any young black or hispanic teen boys out walking late at night, to ask questions? Hell no. It would be good policing.

    When someone in response asks if it would be okay for police to stop white men for some reason, I'd say sure, if there is evidence that they are committing the bulk of crime category. Go for it.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  2. #142
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    And moving on...


    Self-segregation (or auto-segregation) is not inherently racist. People just like to be around others who are similar to them in appearance and cultural background.

    If the previous statements apply to American minorities, then they also apply to Caucasians.

    I will say that I agree that self-segratation is not inherently racist but when practiced by whites is generally racist.

    Whether self-segregation is racist depends entirely on the motivation for self-segregation. I think there is a variety of reasons that minorities might want to self-segregate and some of the motivations are racist and another are not.

    But while we can hypothetically forward white self-segregation being done for non-racist reasons or MAYBE even find a real-world example of it being done for non-racist reasons the primary motivation for white segregation is "we don't like black people" (assuming they are specifically segregating themselves from black people). It's not enough to just say that one doesn't want to associate with "them". I don't associate with most of my neighbors beyond a friendly acknowledgement when we see each other. It's very easy to not have to deal with people I don't want to dealt with in my home life. But if my feelings towards certain people was so strong that I chose to go to the trouble of making sure that I don't even see any of them, then it's a stronger feeling than "not wanting to deal with them" - it's more along the lines of "not wanting to ever have to look at them".

    And while I acknowledge that blacks can be racist against whites and some self-segregation of them is likewise racist, it's easier to forward other motivations when one is a minority in a country. Perhaps they just want to be with people who have shared the same struggles, etc.

    But again, I can't think of any realistic motive for white self-segregation than "we really don't like black people".

  3. #143
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    John: I'm going to be a great president.
    Susan: Make the bed, Lincoln.

    Belittling towards Lincoln? Absolutely not.
    Being President is a job, being a Native American is an immutable characteristic. Apples and oranges. Maybe you have another example.
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  4. #144
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But while we can hypothetically forward white self-segregation being done for non-racist reasons or MAYBE even find a real-world example of it being done for non-racist reasons the primary motivation for white segregation is "we don't like black people" (assuming they are specifically segregating themselves from black people).
    That's a huge assumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    It's not enough to just say that one doesn't want to associate with "them". I don't associate with most of my neighbors beyond a friendly acknowledgement when we see each other. It's very easy to not have to deal with people I don't want to dealt with in my home life. But if my feelings towards certain people was so strong that I chose to go to the trouble of making sure that I don't even see any of them, then it's a stronger feeling than "not wanting to deal with them" - it's more along the lines of "not wanting to ever have to look at them".
    Another big assumption and opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    And while I acknowledge that blacks can be racist against whites and some self-segregation of them is likewise racist, it's easier to forward other motivations when one is a minority in a country. Perhaps they just want to be with people who have shared the same struggles, etc.
    Let's flesh out that "etc". I can think of lots of reasons that minorities might want to self-segregate, such as shared preferences in food, music, entertainment, leisure activities, religious observance, hair styles, dress and mannerisms. And they may just be more comfortable around people who look like they do. All of those (and probably more) could combine to create a powerful emotional need to self-segregate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But again, I can't think of any realistic motive for white self-segregation than "we really don't like black people".
    So none of the above driving factors that apply to minorities would apply to whites? Why not?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  5. #145
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    That's a huge assumption.
    No, It's a very reasonable assumption.

    I cannot think of any examples of whites advocating for racial separation from blacks which was not clearly rooted in racism nor can I think of a realistic scenario where this would happen (as in any description of non-racial white separatism would have to be a hypothetical).

    Now, it is true that even a reasonable assumption is still an assumption and not support. But then I'm not the one who made the initial argument regarding whether white racial segregation is racist or not - you are so the original burden is yours.

    I'm just explaining why I disagree instead of saying nothing about and just going "challenge, support or retract".

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Another big assumption and opinion.
    No, it's an argument that makes a lot of sense and you have not rebutted.




    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Let's flesh out that "etc". I can think of lots of reasons that minorities might want to self-segregate, such as shared preferences in food, music, entertainment, leisure activities, religious observance, hair styles, dress and mannerisms. And they may just be more comfortable around people who look like they do. All of those (and probably more) could combine to create a powerful emotional need to self-segregate.
    Except you didn't mention race in that equation.

    One can have a shared preference in food, music, entertainment, leisure activities, religious observance, hair styles, dress and mannerisms with someone of a different race.

    And if one doesn't know anyone of a different race who shares enough of those commonalities to feasibly associate with, they can just not associate with those people. There is no need to try to find a place where they just won't encounter any of them.

    I don't find it hard to not associate with people that I don't want to associate with in my free time. I just don't hang out with them.



    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    So none of the above driving factors that apply to minorities would apply to whites? Why not?
    Because a white person can limit their interactions to people who share their common interests and culture and exclude those who don't without moving somewhere where they don't even see black people.

    --------------------

    But let me lay out a scenario. So there's a family who has chosen, and succeeded, in racially segregating. Their daughter goes off to college and falls in love with a man called "Jim". Jim is, by all accounts, a perfect match for the family. He has the same political leanings as them, same socio-economic background, is great in his field and is guaranteed to be financially successful, etc. And he's white. So all is good and Jim is welcome to family functions like parties and Holidays. But now let's say Jim is the exact same guy but he's black. If the family is a racial segregationist, they will reject Jim despite all of the great qualities that I already mentioned. So the difference IS racial (since beyond race, there is no difference between White Jim and Black Jim). Therefore, the families rejection of Black Jim is racist and if they don't reject him, the they are not racial segregationists.

    So you can't be a racial segregationist and still accept someone who is just like you in every way but race.
    Last edited by mican333; September 4th, 2019 at 03:42 PM.

  6. #146
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    And...

    Racial profiling as generally practiced in the United States is not racism. It isn't racist to note that most crimes of certain types are committed by individuals of a certain race, gender and age.

    It isn't racist to do a careful airport screening of young Arabic men boarding planes, and not as carefully screen old white women. Old white women are unlikely to hijack planes and fly them into office buildings, or carry bombs in their shoes.

    It isn't racism to stop cars filled with Hispanics moving north away from the southern border with Mexico.

    I live in an area where there are frequent thefts from automobiles by people who walk around late at night testing door handles. Every surveillance video I've seen from home cameras shows the perps to be black and hispanic teens. Would it be racist for police to stop any young black or hispanic teen boys out walking late at night, to ask questions? Hell no. It would be good policing.

    When someone in response asks if it would be okay for police to stop white men for some reason, I'd say sure, if there is evidence that they are committing the bulk of crime category. Go for it.



    In fact, if a car of white college kids is cruising slowly through Compton in the evening, you can bet your arse they'll be profiled and pulled over with cops asking what business they have in the hood.

    For those not in the know Compton is a predominately black city. Although, I think I heard it was turning Hispanic. I dunno. It certainly ain't a place white college people hang for the most part.

    With that being said, white
    segregationist
    (or any segregationist) movement is almost always based on racism. It is explicitly saying I don't want to be around with people of type X. And, unless this is some weird cultist group which believes they are self-quarantining themselves because they have a virus, then I think it is a very fair assumption that the belief is based on the idea of superiority over the other group. However, I'd like to point out that white nationalist or segregationist movements in the U.S. is a very small group of people. They are fringe groups at best. Certainly, they are not as numerous or prevalent as CNN or MSNBC would have one believe. These are not groups tied to the GOP. They are not supported by any mainstream organization. Largely, they are in the news because they are being used to invalidate arguments and candidates from the GOP. They are proxies for serious discussion of reasonable disagreements between the left and right in American politics. I've said it before, but unlike the left, the right has a pretty good idea of where the red line is that they should not cross where nationalism goes too far. Certainly, the GOP is highly aware and sensitive to being associated with groups like Storm Front or the KKK. You won't see David Duke at a GOP national convention. You won't see GOP leaders hobknobbing with white nationalist leaders intentionally. I say intentionally because all politicians take photo opportunities with strangers and for both Dems and Reps we have seen instances where they are in a photo with some infamous character through no fault of their own. Compare this to Dem politicians inviting someone like Farakkan to an event knowing he is anti-Semitic and racist. My point being that Dems simply have no clearly established red line they won't cross.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  7. #147
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    Re: It isn't Racist to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    These are not groups tied to the GOP.
    There are white nationalist members of the GOP, whether they're a member of any group is irrelevant. They share the same values.

    Plenty of ripe examples of vocal, overt racists can already be found in Congress. Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) has made a career out of being a bog-standard white nationalist, and makes no bones about his leanings. Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) has made his own form of brazen racism into a kind of performance art. On Thursday, 23 House Republicans voted against a resolution condemning racism because it contained language denouncing anti-Muslim hatred. Included in that list were two of the three top House Republican leaders, Committee Chairwoman Liz Cheney and House Minority Whip Steve Scalise.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

 

 
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